Suicide Bomber Kills 4 Canadian Soldiers

"What in the hell are our troops doing handing out pens and candy to the local children??? I can see several reasons why doing this demonstrates VERY poor judgment not to mention endangering both the soldiers and the kids, but imagine how you would feel if a group of foreign soldiers pulled into your neighbourhood and started luring in kids with pens and candy! Imagine if one of those kids was your own!"

Your choice of the word 'luring' is what is disturbing. Do ambulance attendants in Canada who hand out stuffed animals to injured kids do so with the motive of 'luring'?

Not everything is about primal urges.

Why should this endanger anyone? You can't win the trust of the people unless you get out of your armoured vehicle and walk the same streets as them. You need to talk to them, face to face for them to get to know you, otherwise you are just a different opressor.

"Can any of you that are (or were) soldiers please shed some light on this practise? Is this something that soldiers normally do? Are they expected to do it? Or is the story unlikely to be true?"

It's 100% true. And it is the right thing to do. Kids have nothing to fear from our soldiers, and candy has always been the universal sign of that. It's all perfectly normal and common practice. Adults understand it when you dig them a water well, provide them with medicines or build a building. Kids understand candy. And adults see how happy their kids are.

This tactic has been very successful in other parts of Afghanistan, where kids will warn our soldiers of minefields and booby traps, rather than let them find out the hard way.

I notice you didn't mention the homicide bomber. Someone bent on killing our soldiers, kids be damned. And I also notice the similiarity between an incident at a checkpoint a couple weeks ago that killed a Canadian soldier, and also later killed a kid on a bike at that same checkpoint.

Care to comment on that?

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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

"Your choice of the word 'luring' is what is disturbing. Do ambulance attendants in Canada who hand out stuffed animals to injured kids do so with the motive of 'luring'?" <br><br> I don't see the connection you're trying to make. A child in need being helped by a medical attendant is a very different matter than a child being bribed with candy by occupation soldiers. <br><br> "Why should this endanger anyone? You can't win the trust of the people unless you get out of your armoured vehicle and walk the same streets as them. You need to talk to them, face to face for them to get to know you, otherwise you are just a different opressor." <br><br> Come on Caleb, you know as well as I do that occupation sodiers are NOT trained or qualified to "win the hearts and minds" of anyone. Did these soldiers ask the parents for permission to fraternize with the local childern? I'd never hand off candy to kids unless the parents know about it first and give me permission - such as during Halloween. <br><br> The Canadian soldiers are hated by at least some of the local population - the killings attest to that, therefore associating with local children may enrage some of the locals against the troops who are doing it, and since we know Canadian soldiers are being targeted, luring childern towards their positions cleary endangers them should there be an attack. I've seen the same sort of story come out of Iraq: soldiers handing out candy and toys to kids, then getting blown up in the process leaving the mostly the kids dead, brain damaged and/or maimed for life. What a sick way to go. <br><br> One has to wonder who is giving the order to hand out candy to kids. I assume that whoever is doing it can read about what the practise always leads to as well as I can. <br><br> <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/13/AR2005071300336.html">Bombing in Iraq Kills Mostly Children 27 Die in Suicide Attack in Baghdad as U.S. Troops Hand Out Candy and Toys</a> <br><br> "It's 100% true. And it is the right thing to do. Kids have nothing to fear from our soldiers, and candy has always been the universal sign of that. It's all perfectly normal and common practice. Adults understand it when you dig them a water well, provide them with medicines or build a building. Kids understand candy. And adults see how happy their kids are. <br><br> This tactic has been very successful in other parts of Afghanistan, where kids will warn our soldiers of minefields and booby traps, rather than let them find out the hard way." <br><br> Man that is some twisted logic - bribing kids into being your informants during a time of war!!! I'm so angered by this I'm shaking. There's absolutely NO concern for the childs safety being demonstrated here. We can see it in the report as well; the headline is about the dead soldiers NOT the dead children, and there's NO anger being expressed as I am expressing it right now! I think any parent will know why I'm so disgusted and pissed off in learning about this. <br><br> "I notice you didn't mention the homicide bomber. Someone bent on killing our soldiers, kids be damned. And I also notice the similiarity between an incident at a checkpoint a couple weeks ago that killed a Canadian soldier, and also later killed a kid on a bike at that same checkpoint. <br><br> Care to comment on that?" <br><br> One thing we should be clear on, is that we have no idea what really happened with these attacks. News sources during a time of war cannot ever be trusted, e.g., Was it really a suicide attack or did a mine go off, or did something else happen? In the case at hand, assuming the story is true and that a suicidal bomber blew up the kids, the Canadians will get blamed for it anyway because the locals don't want them there in the first place (they know the real reason why their country was invaded), and any parent will be very upset with the toy and candy lure. Attacks such as this one will only fuel resentment towards both the occupation forces and the 'terrorists' which translates into resentment toward the occupation in general. Both sides in any war end up being just as sick and twisted as the other and it's always the innocent who get hurt the most. Study your history of war, and you'll see that what I say has always been true. <br><br> There's no winning this war with the use of bullets and bombs. <br><br> I thought that Sgt_ShockNAwe said it well about the boy on bike killing (don't forget another boy was also shot but was reported to have survived at least initially - we have no idea what his ultimate condition is, he could now be dead for all we know, or maimed for life, or perfectly fine although most likely mentally scared by the ordeal). <br><br> <a href="http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20060824002140978">Afghan boy shot after soldier killed by bomb</a> <br><br> I've read about the candy and toy dance being done in Vietman, Iraq, and elsewhere, and it never works. Meanwhile innocent kids are getting blown apart for it, and that's the bottom line.

To para-phrase, You can take the boy out of the military but you can't ....<br />
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<a href="http://www.policyalternatives.ca/index.cfm?act=news&call=1435&pa=BB736455&do=Article">http://www.policyalternatives.ca/index.cfm?act=news&call=1435&pa=BB736455&do=Article</a><br />
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Press Release <br />
Canadian troops bearing brunt of coalition casualties<br />
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September 18, 2006 | National Office | Topic(s): International relations, peace & conflict | Publication Type: Press Release<br />
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OTTAWA&#8212;Canadian Forces are incurring a disproportionately heavy burden of casualties among coalition forces in Afghanistan, says Canada's Fallen, a report released today by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives. <br />
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The report, written by defence analysts Steven Staples and Bill Robinson, raises serious questions about why Canada is taking such heavy losses, and whether the government expected such a high number of soldiers to be killed. <br />
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The first of its kind in Canada, the report paints a grim picture of Afghanistan where Canada has suffered 32 military deaths, 27 from hostile action (as of September 8, 2006). It finds that, after the United States, Canada has suffered more casualties from hostile action than any other U.S. ally&#8212;27 of 71 casualties, or two in five of non-U.S. deaths.<br />
<p>---<br>We have met the enemy and he is us<br />
Pogo<br />
A mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled.<br />
Plutarch

"I don't see the connection you're trying to make. A child in need being helped by a medical attendant is a very different matter than a child being bribed with candy by occupation soldiers. "<br />
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Only if you think the Ambulance attendant is trying to 'bribe' the kid. The soldier is only trying to show the kid that he isn't the big-bad-babyrapers that the Taliban (and you) say he is. As the ambulance is only trying to give comfort in a scary situation.<br />
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"Come on Caleb, you know as well as I do that occupation sodiers are NOT trained or qualified to "win the hearts and minds" of anyone."<br />
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On the contraty, I know and have attended, cultural sensitivity training that all Canada Forces attend before deployment. My 'Eat Pork or Die, infidel' Arabic t-shirts were a big hit.<br />
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"Did these soldiers ask the parents for permission to fraternize with the local childern? I'd never hand off candy to kids unless the parents know about it first and give me permission - such as during Halloween. "<br />
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Be careful, your Westernization is showing. What is the difference? Kids coming to your door in search of candy, or you going out and handing it to them in the streets? Same purpose and motive, just not on one particular day of the year?<br />
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"The Canadian soldiers are hated by at least some of the local population - the killings attest to that, therefore associating with local children may enrage some of the locals against the troops who are doing it, and since we know Canadian soldiers are being targeted, luring childern towards their positions cleary endangers them should there be an attack."<br />
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There we go with the 'luring' again. And now that same segment of the population hates the people behind killing children, and the taliban have lost supporters. Setting children up for the kill was not the purpose of handing out the candy and notebooks. Now, the next guy to ride up to a Canadian patrol with a basket on his bike who refuses to stop will get shot, and people will complain about that, even if it is a basket full of explosives. <br />
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"One has to wonder who is giving the order to hand out candy to kids. I assume that whoever is doing it can read about what the practise always leads to as well as I can. "<br />
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Odds are, these soldiers are paying for these trinkets out of their own meager pay. And once is not "always".<br />
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"Man that is some twisted logic - bribing kids into being your informants during a time of war!!!"<br />
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I guess the Soviets and Taliban shouldn't leave explosives lying around then. <br />
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"I'm so angered by this I'm shaking. There's absolutely NO concern for the childs safety being demonstrated here."<br />
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I guess our soldiers should just leave the explosives where they found them, after all, we didn't put them there. It's not our duty to protect children from them now, is it? In case you don't sense the sarcasm there, that is exactally the purpose of getting out and pounding dirt. To get to know the people, and to let you help them protect them from the dangers you don't know about.<br />
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"We can see it in the report as well; the headline is about the dead soldiers NOT the dead children, and there's NO anger being expressed as I am expressing it right now!"<br />
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So, you post a link, then complain it is inadequate? Here:<br />
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<a href="http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/2BEC5D36-F85D-4428-A846-185275D6224A.htm">http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/2BEC5D36-F85D-4428-A846-185275D6224A.htm</a><br />
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<a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214327,00.html">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214327,00.html</a><br />
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"This attack amounts to a serious violation of international humanitarian law," Tom Koenigs, the top U.N. official in Afghanistan, said in a statement.<br />
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"News sources during a time of war cannot ever be trusted, e.g., Was it really a suicide attack or did a mine go off, or did something else happen?"<br />
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Well, a mine would have been found in a crowded area long before now . . .<br />
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As for the rest, well, when you've had time to calm yourself you will see the rest of your comment coming from that anger, not from logic.<p>---<br>"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden<br />

"I notice you didn't mention the homicide bomber. Someone bent on killing our soldiers, kids be damned. And I also notice the similiarity between an incident at a checkpoint a couple weeks ago that killed a Canadian soldier, and also later killed a kid on a bike at that same checkpoint.

Care to comment on that?"

Yes I do care to comment on that!
The situation in Afghanistan is exactly that dc, there are those who WILL be bent on killing the occupiers and it is for that very reason the soldiers shouls not put themselve and the general population in harms way


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We have met the enemy and he is us
Pogo
A mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled.
Plutarch

It is a long known military fact that if a "terrorist" is willing to die, nothing can stop him/her on the long run.

This is how it is going to go on and on, because the Taliban know more about warfare, as the Vietcong did 35 years ago, than any book educated general. They will keep picking off the occupying troops one by one, or a few at a time, until the home population gets fed up and forces the military to pull out.

Can't the political "brains" see this?

Ed Deak.

So, I assume you would agree that there is no way to stop someone who is determined to 'martyr' themselves;

Given that, who else will put themselves into harms way to defend the general population?


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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

The Americans have been handing out candy and rebuilding this and that in Iraq and Afghanistan since the beginning - where has it gotten them? Why would Canadians handing out candy and pencils be any different? Sure and of course they will openly take them, and maybe even find some liking to the man/woman that gave it to them, but at the end of the day it changes nothing. Their country remains in tatters, it is being torn apart by a civil war (though our government says we are fighting terrorists), and the Pashtun will not EVER accept foreign soldiers dictating to them.

How many dozens of Canadians must die before we leave? We will leave that place as has every foreign power before us. We refuse to learn the lessons of history. We are doomed to repeat it, and sadly are repeating it.

The biggest losers once again are the Afghan people who are made victims of our government's vainglorious attempts to play God with their nation.

The victims dying right now in Darfur need our help and would readily accept it. The warlords, thieves and drug runners in the Afghan government - many of whom were our former enemies just a decade ago, only want us there to help them crush their fellow Afghans.

But when it is dying Africans nobody seems to give a crap. Maybe somebody should propose an oil pipeline through Darfur - I bet that would get the Western government's attention!

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If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.

We have handed out candy on every tour. They handed candy and treats out since the Roman Legions. Who better to help than them.

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27 yrs in the military, 9 tours and one more almost complete..

"Our thoughts and prayers go out to all of the families affected," said Brig.-Gen. David Fraser, the Canadian commander in southern Afghanistan.<<

I wonder if this is before or is it after he demanded more troops to be sent.

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Expect little from life and get more from it.

>Kids have nothing to fear from our soldiers,<<

It's just their parants who better run and hide. Those kids may be orphans when they get their next treats.

>This tactic has been very successful in other parts of Afghanistan, where kids will warn our soldiers of minefields and booby traps<<

Yes, there is a "use" for these kids. No point wasting candy.

>I notice you didn't mention the homicide bomber. Someone bent on killing our soldiers<<

I don't suppose these foreigners were intent on killing him nor his family & friends. Perhaps there is no chance that any innocent friend or family was killed previously by those same invaders. He should have realized that these Canadians were the good guys and only there to help him, his friends and family. They were giving candy to kids to see if these kids could help them find the bad guys.
Who knows, maybe someday these same kids will be riding a bicycle and approaching troops to get more candy. Maybe when they're older.

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Expect little from life and get more from it.

The "Banzai" mass attacks the Japanese used in WW's I & II, were, evidently according to some here, much more 'acceptable" than the suicide bombers of today, because the former wore uniforms when they died? And these same suicide-prone soldiers were also responsible for the rape of Nanking, and the subsequent killing of women, children, and civilians in general.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre</a><br />
But that was wartime, and this today is.......?<p>---<br>"Son, if you wanna get ahead in this world, never work for another man as long as you live."

Likely, with the soldiers gone, there wouldn't be a "need" for the suicide bombers...........

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"Son, if you wanna get ahead in this world, never work for another man as long as you live."

They weren't handing out anything. They were on a security mission and the news has since been updated with the truth.

On a sidenote: Do they really think by handing out treats will win the hearts abd minds of these children? Ya kid, we killed your Father, Mother, Sister, whoever, fill in the blank, but take this candy to make up for it.

How absurd. Who is giving them advice? Let's hope they didn't have to pay for it.

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These days, if you are not confused, you are not thinking clearly. Mrs. Irene Peters