Harper Is Too Cynical

Harper is the worst kind of politician who seems to think that engaging in divisive politics will win him power in Ottawa when in reality people are quite rightly disgusted by it. It's even worse when such accusations are baseless. Unless there is something that has escaped my attention, during the last 20+ years Alberta still has the same deal in place that gave them total control over resource revenues signed in the early 1980s.

Perhaps Harper just doesn't have the intellectual capacity to understand that the only reason for debate about where revenues from oil and gas resources off Newfoundland and Nova Scotia would go was because of a question of jurisdiction, as these resources just happen to lie under the coastal waters of Canada. Provinces don't have jurisdiction in these areas so Ottawa could have easily pushed the issue and won so I think you have to give credit when it is due to the Liberals signing over the proceeds from these revenues to the two provinces.

Harper's pointing out the truth. Does anyone honestly believe the Liberals could retain power if Newfoundland and Nova Scotia were living the high life with bags of money to spare while Ontario, BC and Alberta still had to give them money?

Raising up the poor folk is one thing, being forced to hand over cash to the 'Beverly Hillbillies' of the East is quite another. The resentment would be staggering. The deal recently signed by the Liberals is hardly worth the paper it's printed on because the Liberals will bust it so fast it would make a Newfies head spin.

You know that type of response is a typical neo-conservative response every time they talk about the Liberal's. I mean they will scaren and make noise in Parliament, then the Liberal's will pretty much do everything they say. Then the neo-cons are never happy. They always have something to say negative. Never do they just say, you know what I give the Prime Minister credit.

Actually the only conservatives that gave Mr. Martin credit were John Hahn, and Danny Williams. They were willing to step up and congradulate the Prime Minister. Why couldn't the neo-cons federally just praise for now and make ridiculous accusations if the deal doesn't go through.

With that said I'm not even a Liberal voter. Try not being bias, its really not that hard to see good in your opponent

Kevin

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"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
--Bertrand Russell

I agree with Kevin. Where is your PROOF of your assertion anon?

I am the last one to vote Liberal, but I also stay on the side of reality and fact. Harper is doing a very good impression of US style politics where division and attacks are common. Harper is doing himself and his party no favours by taking such approaches. Canadians are not Americans, and taking political discourse to the gutter is part and parcel of that.

Martin DID promise N+L a set of conditions during the election run, and he did take his sweet time going through with them, but he DID go through with them in the end. There is no precedent that can be used to say that the Liberals under Martin in their minority position are about to go back on their word at this point.

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If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.

<blockquote>I am the last one to vote Liberal, but I also stay on the side of reality and fact. Harper is doing a very good impression of US style politics where division and attacks are common. Harper is doing himself and his party no favours by taking such approaches. Canadians are not Americans, and taking political discourse to the gutter is part and parcel of that.</blockquote> <p>The majority of Canadians will reject Mr. Harper's political strategies. I believe that Mr. Martin will grow in popularity, in spite of this scandal from the past. I don't like this idea, but that's just the way I see it. <p>Canadians seem to be thinking positive of Mr. Martin according to the Poll's. So giving the fact of all what has gone on with the scandal, it makes you wonder how they sustain their popularity. <p>Kevin<p>---<br>"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."<br />
--Bertrand Russell

Another example of the typical conservative responses. They demand one thing, only to find fault in the same things they demand for. They are never happy.

The inquiry they requested is now the centre of their attacks. They bash the Liberal's for being scandalous, forgeting that the Conservative Party had it's share of scandal as well.

On another topic....

Ironically a Conservative MP at a committee for "Indian Affairs" I quote "I will not infringe on minority rights". Yet this MP hasn't come out to say he supports gay marriages. I bet many of those Conservatives have said one time or another they would not infringe on minority rights, but they won't practice what they preach. Until that day when some of those MP's have children that are homosexuals. God only knows how a person in denial of homosexuals being part of the world, will react if they have a child born a homosexual.

I'm not totally on board supporting gay marriage, and I don't know if I can ever really accept it. But at least I'm willing to admit to obvious realities of life, and admit that I don't own a persons right to choose.

Kevin

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"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
--Bertrand Russell

Let me get this straight, people here are saying that a federal politician 'can be trusted' and that a member of the opposition is wrong to be 'opposing' the government? Am I at the right site?

Your missing my point. I'm not saying it's wrong for the opposition to be opposing the government. As for the idea of a federal politician 'can be trusted'. I would like to think there is some truth to that we can trust a federal politician. If not then what is an opposition, if they are also a possible (non trustable federal leader).

In my opinion from the different communication, and emotional intelligence books. There is a difference when your opposing everything that is being done, and opposing but still giving praise where it is do. I see very little of this coming from opposition.

It's the idea that the New Conservatives find nothing the Liberal government does as positive. Which is funny cause the Liberal's have moved on issues to satisfy the Conservatives pleas, yet still the Conservatives will attack whatever actions they take.

I strongly believe that the New Conservatives are taking advice from the Republican Party in the U.S., on how to ruin the image of the opposition party (Liberal). The news and propaganda connection with the Republican Party, will happen here with the New Conservatives. They want to ruin the image of the opposition and take control. They will use all forms of propaganda campaing strategies. Then you will see people voting from a propaganda campaign, and forget all about real policies.

Ironically many Americans have come out publically and said they voted for Bush in 2004, but they now regret it. Apparently they don't agree with this policies. Duh why didn't they find out his policies ideas before they voted? The propaganda campaign was successful.

Mr. Harper is not out to tell us his ideas for Canada anymore. His on a hunt to kill the Liberal brand in Canada. Which is fine cause this Liberal government is too right anyways. The problem is though the next party that could take power, is just as worse, if not worse.

I'm not a Liberal voter, and I don't want to sound like I'm defending them. Just pointing out hypocrisy that I observed.

Kevin

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"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
--Bertrand Russell

Being the official opposition is one thing. Opposition just for the sake of opposing without any real basis for doing so should be rejected for the political positioning and game playing it is.

The role of the opposition in government is to keep an eye on the government in power; they are not there to bring that government down by making riduculous accusations in an effort to create a negative impression of the ruling party in voters' minds. In other words, Harper is not representing anyone's interest by devoting time to this sort of juvenile behavior instead of issues that actually exist and therefore have meaning to the electorate.

Couldn't have said it better myself

Kevin

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"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
--Bertrand Russell

I agree Kevin and hoopoe. My Mp, a Con, sent out a leaflet complaining that the Liberal govenment had stolen some conservative policy (sorry I can't remember which one it was). I, finding it irksome that the Cons were complaining when the Liberals didn't and now were complaing because the Liberals did was too much. I wrote back stating they should be happy that something they they had wanted put in motion was going to take place rather than complaining that their idea was being stolen. You know they are not working for their constituents when that happens.

Although Harper is not the only cynical one, when it comes to most politicians, I am too.

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"Yeah, well, [Mr. President] we used all five fingers because that's the way our mittens are made." Antonia Zerbisias

What a great idea to get elected, I'm sure lots of people out there will vote conservative because they say their opposition is doing a good job! There are three reasons opposition parties act this way. First, it is their job-that is why they are called the opposition. Of course they OPPOSE everything because thats what you expect from an opposition party. We all know the liberal party will be singing their own praises, we certainly don't need it from the other parties. Two, they are right to complain when ideas are stolen, because what this means is that the ruling party had no intention of doing it themselves, then when they discovered strategic reasons for implementing it, use it. Hardly what you want from your elected government. And third, of course some posturing is there since we're a media run society, that's true of all parties except the ones that can't get coverage.

Likewise there's a tendency at this site to basically say Harper is...whatever adjective fits the moment. When he compromises he's 'admitting he's wrong and not PM material', when he doesn't he's belligerent and well, in this case cynical. I don't know who the responders here are, but this site is basically a shrine to cynicism, and it perplexes me when I read most of the articles that somebody would even consider 'trusting' the federal government. Here's an exercise, go to the government of canada home site and print a list of all the departments and crown corporations, etc., and then do a google search on them. Then read the auditor general's reports.

My motto is "cynicism of the intellect, optimism of the will"

Well that's your opinion. Will have to agree that we disagree. Although what you describe may be common amongst politicians. There are events that I remember while watching Parliamentary debates, over the years, and recently. Where politicians thanks opposition politicians for good work done. You see it allot from NDP, Bloc and Liberal. Very little from the New Conservatives.

You may think that its not PM material. But that is an opinion with no substance. Following Mr. Martin and his style in Parliament, he often thanks the opposition. Anyone else notice this? However he only has limited chances to do so, because he is always defending himself from accusations, and no facts to go with it. Sure some accusations have ligitamicy. But allot of them dont.

You know I defend the idea of good communication in parliament, and it sounds like I'm defending Paul Martin. I'm not. I'm defending good communication. There is sincerity in some politicians. And its easy to find that sincerity when you see them stand up and praise the opposition for work done, in a area that they had requested work be done.

They will usually start with praise, and then bring up another small issue, or ask for improvements in that same area. But the important thing is, they are talking about an issue for their constituents.

Now coming from you Marcarc who doesn't believe in government all together. Don't you think your opinion may be a little bias. Meaning you only see bad from all the political parties. Maybe your right.

Of course this is just my opinion

Kevin

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"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
--Bertrand Russell

Politicians are just like everybody else, and I'm the last to paint any group with a brush. Keep in mind that I ran for direct democracy, which doesn't mean I disapprove of government altogether, in fact quite the opposite, I oppose virtually every form of privatization, which means in effect that government reaches every aspect of life-just not our current form of government. Here I do not feel so lonely, while you praise these acts of graciousness Canadian polls show that people, by a large margin, don't believe a word politicians say. Of course, Paul Martin can be as gracious as he wants, satan himself was often said to have a golden tongue. There is virtually nothing that Paul Martin has ever done, either as PM or as finance minister that has bettered the lot of average canadians, there is plenty of research that shows this. So he can say please and thank you all he wants.

Of course that has nothing to do with my post, while my bias is well known I was in fact supporting Paul Harper's position, something I rarely do and I certainly would never think of voting for him.

I missed a main point which is that opposition parties represent canadians, the ones who oppose the federal governments policies, and there are canadians who will oppose EVERY policy simply because there are a lot of canadians. If opposition parties agree and say please and thank you and then sit down then those canadians effectively have no representation. While YOU may agree with a policy, I don't think it's fair to assume that everybody does or that any one group has some divine truth which negates all opposition.

Finally, the previous post seemed to aimed more generally at civility in the commons, which I tend to agree on. The whole crew act like retarded monkey men virtually all the time. I'm embarassed to watch them on CPAC because they sound like neanderthals at a hockey game. One side talks while they pound their desks and the other side 'boos' and on and on. But for every time any one person has said please or thank you keep in mind who is in charge of each side, there have been several books by MP's written on how carefully choreographed the whole thing is. Paul Martin may not be 'booing' because he has to look dignified, but he's in charge of the team and nobody makes those sounds without his OK. Not if they want a decent cabinet post, office, committee's, etc.