My Exploration Of Canada-USA Amalgamation

Posted on Tuesday, March 16 at 11:01 by doron

2. People like to have a government which pursues policies reflecting their values and priorities. I viewed the American government's policies and past actions through Canadian eyes and found much not to like. I came to the conclusion that while I am currently proud of the policies of my federal government, I would have been ashamed of at least some of the policies of my government if I was an American citizen. I would conclude many of my governments in the last 50 years committed, supported, or criminally neglected to prevent acts of terror and war crimes. I would be particularly appalled by the fact that my government spends 40 (forty!) times more on developing the capacity to mutilate people of other nations than on the capacity to help them improve their lives (military vs. foreign economical aid budgets). While there will likely be some shift in policies if we shared a government, the relative size of the two populations would result in a relatively small adjustment.

3. People would like to have an efficient and responsive government. While I didn't do a comprehensive study, a rough assessment of costs vs. citizen satisfaction led me to conclude the federal Canadian government is significantly more efficient and responsive than the American one. Were the governments to join, I believe the American administration's inefficiency would dominate the joined result.

4. By now it should be obvious I concluded the idea of unifying Canada and the US is currently neither desirable nor feasible. I still think, however, that increased economical integration is worth pursuing, and, if done with care, can be achieved without compromising political independence. I'm still pondering what my conclusions imply regarding the prospects of a global federation that includes the US.

5. A lively on-line discussion forum where the participants hold different views on subjects of common interest is an excellent way for people to get engaged and excited, obtain new knowledge quickly and clarify their thinking. Provided the debate is civilized (and it can sometimes degrade into juvenile name-calling), participants who based their initial view on false assumptions may not immediately change their mind, but would often go away with doubts they didn't have before.

6. The "Bush Doctrine" is unsustainable because the American public will refuse to provide financing, or institute a military draft, to enable any more Iraq-like adventures for some years to come. The combination of a global constituency increasingly resentful towards the US and a US government powerless to impose significant economical sanctions is pushing governments of a growing list of countries to pursue foreign policies independent of Washington. The US is thus losing followers, ie, its global leadership position. Due to 9/11, the controversy around the war in Iraq, the proliferation of TV news and the Internet, world citizenry is now far more aware of international politics and human rights violations in far-away places than ever before. A consensus is developing that the current system of international diplomacy sucks. The smell of an impending change in how the world is governed is in the air. The experience, plus my growing awareness of the deficiencies and weaknesses of the current world governance system, led me to launch an online discussion forum (www.worldgov.info) dedicated solely to world governance.

Links for further exploration

For those of you who want to examine the basis for my conclusions, I am listing here some information sources I found very useful. Some of them are eye opening - prepare to spend an hour or more browsing through this fascinating stuff.

Attitudes and conditions of people in different nations

  • www.people-press.org/pgap/ : results of comparative worldwide polls. The "What the world thinks 2002" survey is particularly interesting.
  • www.worldaudit.org : the prevalence of public corruption, the state of human rights, political rights and the rule of law in 149 nations (all those exceeding one million population).
  • www.nationmaster.com : a comprehensive, easily accessible, database of comparative statistical data about nations with an associated encyclopedia. Excellent!

Integration of North-America

Why do they hate America?

I started my exploration with resentment towards the Bush administration, but with a view that it was a historical aberration. My attitude towards past administrations and the American public in general was positive and friendly (hey, my sister is an American!). As I climbed the learning curve on recent American history, my limited initial resentment became wider and more deeply entrenched to the point I am now definitely an anti-American. Using the wonders of the Internet, you can easily separate fact from spin and become an expert anti-American yourself too:

A side comment: In debates about US foreign policy, I was sometimes attacked by Americans for not being even-handed and "fair" (we were not the only ones to do X, so why pick on us?). My response was that since US claims moral leadership (its "manifest destiny", it must subject itself to a closer scrutiny and be held to a higher morality standard than those it claims to lead. Moreover, I suspect that the per-capita body count resulting from US's foreign policy decisions over the last 50 years simply tops the list for any representative government.

Looking for a motive? Let me quote John F. Lehman, Jr., US Secretary of the Navy (1973-1987): "Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat." If we were Americans and felt all-powerful, we might have behaved the same way.



Note: www.unitednorthamerica.org www.worldgov.info www.people-press.org/pgap/ www.worldaudit.org www.nationmaster.com www.ppforum.com www.ekos.com/media/rese... www.macleans.ca/topstor... www.lossless-audio.com/... www.fas.org/man/crs/crs... www.deoxy.org/wc/warcri... www.rotten.com/library/... www.rotten.com/library/... www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/b... www.zpub.com/un/wanted-... www.rotten.com/library/... www.thenation.com/doc.m...

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Comments

  1. Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:49 pm
    Very thoughtful analysis. Some issues raised require further debate, I think, but I would be extremely sceptical about economic integration being a viable option for Canada. They would cream us.

    Paul Harris

  2. Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:00 pm
    A very interesting article. I was going to flame you after the first couple paragraphs, but you came to to the only logical conclusion by #4.<p> Keep the good stuff coming!<p><p>---<br>"History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme" Mark Twain <br />
    "The greatest price of not participating in politics is being governed by your inferiors." Plato

  3. Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:02 pm
    No, economic integration is NOT viable! This would spell the death of Canada! I like your analysis of the differences between Canadians and Americans, and their respective governments. But it too, is too general. Many Americans are pragmatic and secular, and many Canadians are religious and idealogical too. But I think it is safe to say that the general climate for a social democratic style of government is better in Canada as opposed to the US. But there`s no way you can have economic integration and maintain a sovereign Canada with all of its high minded social programs intact! I sense this is your diplomatic attempt to woo Canadians by the heart toward integrationist sentiments. Won`t work!

    ---
    Dave Ruston

  4. by Poz
    Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:15 pm
    After reading your first couple of paragraphs I was getting quite agitated... fortunetaly the tone changed. I would like to encourage Doron to pursue some reading outside of website sources as I noticed much was based on organizations' facts and opinions. The internet is an excellent way to learn new things but at the same time it is a hotbed for the propagation of self-serving interests... even our beloeve vivelecanada.ca community has it's own interests. The problem with solely focusing on websites leads to a possiblity in being easily swayed in one direction. I encourage everyone to seek out academic sources for topics like this. I have read many sources that are for and against "harmonizing" ( I hate that word) and my general conclusion has obviously lead to non-harmonizing.

    Just as a point of interest to counteract what the unitednorthamerica.org site says about people not getting help in hosptitals becuase their HMO wont let it (in the health care section).
    It is true that US doctors are legally obliged to help anyone one that is in need of help... Doctors are not legally obliged (in fact are told not) to help a non-HMO patient beyond simple stabilization of vitals.

    ---
    Ryan

  5. Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:49 am
    I wonder why people think an economic integration will not be beneficial to Canadians. In my mind, limiting trade between the US and Canada is similar to limiting trade between provinces. Neither makes much sense.

    By and large, I associate trade barriers with higher consumer costs and artificial limitations on the market access of suppliers. What are the benefits?

  6. by doron
    Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:56 am
    Sorry - the previous reply was mine, the author of the article. I forgot to login first.

  7. Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:49 am
    Doron,

    The problem is do Canadains want to adopt more of the U.S way of governing the country? Which is exactly what economic integration will mean. Sure trade is good, but not when it means giving up your countries sovereignty in the process. If you think that this FTA and economic integration is not going to lead to Canada loosing its sovereignty, then you need to do a little more research.

    FTA and economic integration with the U.S will bring Canada down the same path as Hawaii and Puerto Rico. If you learn a little about that history you will see the parallels with Canada/U.S integration.

    Kevin

  8. Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:49 am
    Doron,

    The problem is do Canadains want to adopt more of the U.S way of governing the country? Which is exactly what economic integration will mean. Sure trade is good, but not when it means giving up your countries sovereignty in the process. If you think that this FTA and economic integration is not going to lead to Canada loosing its sovereignty, then you need to do a little more research.

    FTA and economic integration with the U.S will bring Canada down the same path as Hawaii and Puerto Rico. If you learn a little about that history you will see the parallels with Canada/U.S integration.

    Kevin

  9. by Poz
    Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:11 am
    You say that economic integration with the US, like with the provinces is a good thing. But there is a point when the market can get too big for policy-makers to influence the economy (of course you have to think this is a good thing, which I do). There must be a fine balance of priority of policy and priority of economy.
    Go look at Puerto Rico's history or Hawaii's, like Kevin just said. One of the interesting things about the creation of new states in the US has been that they remain territories until the original population can be water-downed-- in other words, the original population is a minority and so votes will be for pro-American initiateves. This is why Puerto Rico will never be an official state, there are too many Puerto Ricans and too little land to import Americans. This isnt the case for Canada. In Hawaii there is a seperatist movement to become independent from the US, just food for thought.

    ---
    Ryan

  10. Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:29 am
    Ryan,

    Thanks for expanding on what I was saying. I somtimes don't explain myself very well, but your post makes it much more clearer.

    Looking at the history of Hawaii and Puerto Rico. I believe that U.S integration to become a colony or a state will not happen very easy when it does begin to happen. All the polls I have seen (some from ipsos), all point out that the majority of Canadians don't want more integration with the U.S. It also shows that the majority of Canadians want to have a universal health care. This universal health care would not be possible with more integration with the U.S. The pressure of U.S big business would change the Canada health act, if neo-cons or neo-lib's don't do it before that.

    Kevin

  11. by doron
    Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:50 am
    I'm sorry but I don't quite understand. The trade barriers are falling all over the world, not just between Canada and the US. It's called globalization, and, by and large, it's a good thing. It makes economies more efficient, and it makes people more interdependent, and, therefore, have much more to lose by being hostile to each other.

    As long as all sides to the trade adhere to the rules of the trade, they can each decide how to best govern their own internal affairs. If one country wishes to make its taxes more or less progressive, provide or not provide universal healthcare, etc., it can do. In fact, there is totally free trade within the EU, and countries there are "sovereign" to make such decisions.

    It is true that with more traffic of people and goods cultures tend to diffuse with each other. So what? The alternative is to put artificials walls to "protect" against interactions with other cultures, which is far worse.

  12. Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:25 am
    Doron,

    You can't compare Europe free trade with what Canada and U.S free trade. Europe still has barriers of foreign take overs. There's also European countries that actually have higher taxes then Canada. For Canada/U.S there was allot more then just trade in the free trade agreement (FTA). Read exactly what is all in the free trade agreement.

    You Said:
    "As long as all sides to the trade adhere to the rules of the trade, they can each decide how to best govern their own internal affairs."

    I'm assuming you have no idea what chapter 11 means in the free trade agreement. If what you say above was true, our government wouldn't have given 13 million dollars as a settlement a lawsuit from an American company when Canada baned ethyl in fuel. The ethyl company sued our government for baning this ingredient which research showed had some health risk. Wasn't long after ethyl was back in the fuel sold in Canada. Our government had no choice, they even had to come back and said to the Canadian public that there was no health risk with ethyl.

    You said:
    "If one country wishes to make its taxes more or less progressive, provide or not provide universal healthcare, etc., it can do."

    This can be true if the majority of companies were Canadian companies. But again with the free trade agreement and the abolshing of the FIRA (Foreign Investment Review Agency), foreign take overs had very little barriers. With the large amount of foreign take over (mostly from the U.S), our taxes will have no choice to compete with the U.S in time.

    Until you understand there is more to the agreement then just trade, you really have no idea what this close integration with the U.S means.

    Kevin

  13. Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:37 am
    I agree with some of your statements, but on trade I would suggest you read the NAFTA agreement and pay close attention to chapter 11, where any foreign corporations can and do sue the Canadian government if we pass a law that affects their profits and bottom line.

    Also, NAFTA has ruined the economy in Mexico, the jobs are going there but the pay is less than $1.00 per hour and they are more like the working poor than getting any benefit from the trade agreement.

    Notice also that John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich would have abrogated NAFTA had they become president of the US.

    That alone should tell you something.

    Our North American economy and politics are run by corporations these days, and so far all we can do is watch it creep toward more integration. The politicians are becoming powerless to change anything.

    We must find a way to stop these agreements and the formation of any more, like the FTAA and GATS before we lose it all.



    ---
    "Arrogance in Politics is unacceptable"
    Jim Callaghan
    Minden, Ontario
    705-286-1860
    www.misterc.ca

  14. Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:44 am
    Thanks Jim. I had explained myself wrong suggesting the chapter 11 was a part of the FTA. But its actually in the NAFTA. Correct?

    Kevin



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