Let's Get Angry With Gordo

All of this kind of cr*p that the BC Libs are pulling is two years before an election (give or take), so they feel pretty safe in ignoring basic justice..........

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"When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change."
-Max Planck

You want angry?
I got F’in angry
I ve had angry since In listened to the three hour Ideas show on the New Zealand Experiment
I got angry when the tv camera’s just happened to be outside Glen Clark’s while the Queens cowboys “investigated”

I’ve been angry from the time I was a child and taken down to Vancouver’s Skid Row and introduce to legless forestry workers and miners who were friends of my Dad’s and now on the skids and forgotten bt the logging companies they worked for
I’ve been angry since I heard about my Dad organising the union in mining camps and being sent to Okalla for it

I angry when the person you contributed this goes off on one of her hissy fits because of my phrasing or spelling or punctuation
Or any other petty bullshit she chooses to exploit while setting her self up as Queen Bee
I am angry when her lapdogs Go Lancelot
Yeah I fucking angry and I vent

Campbell told the electorate “exactly” what he was going to do in his inaugural speech on fools Cheered!
Same-O with the 2010 rip-off

I’ve made suggestions here
Offered
A property to start an alternative to what those who cared to vote, voted “for”
I’ve asked for study buddy’s to study law so’s that “we” can have an understanding
Of procedure


And what the fuck are YOU doing?

Going after me because I don’t measure up in your eyes??
Blow me!

Do I put my faith in Christ?
Or sit cross legged with my heel up my ass, Bliss-Ninny like and chant Om?

I have been a fighter against this shit all my life
I was brought up on it and watched it take my Dad before his time

It ain’t about me?
You’re fucking right it is! And it’s about you too and for you!

End rant

till the next time









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"The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough.

- Father Bede Jarrett
(with thanks to Willie T)

Anger is good, but alone won't cut it.

WE ALL must change the way we do things..... Live within our means so as not to finance THE MACHINE (by paying interest on loans), change our voting pattern to independent candidates to curtail the power of organized politics.

(This is what my family and I do. We put off purchases until we can pay cash for them. I agree that a mortgage is different; but no modern family needs 3000+ square feet of roofed and heated/airconditioned space. Ours is 1800 sq. ft.).

Me, I'm willing to listen and consider any other suggestions, short of anarchy or revolution, since these type of activities only make things worse.

H.F. Wolff

If I may,
You may agree that the “means” we are to live within are set by those who own the money we use. For the largest percentage means are mean and demeaning.


The European models in Mondragon, Spain and Emilio -Romagna Italy offer alternatives for Canadians to use


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"The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough.

- Father Bede Jarrett
(with thanks to Willie T)

Live within your means..... Perhaps I am too old fashioned in advocating this?

At the very least a person ought to know the total costs of the various monetary "conveniences" and latest and greatest gadgets.

Permit me to illustrate: In the mid '70's my wife and I purchased our first home, mortgage interest rate of 11%, 5 year term, 25 year amortization period.

5 years later we found out that we had paid off $1500 off the principal. My wife was absolutely shocked: "60 payments of $xxx per month and we still owe THAT amount?" I said to her that it was going to get worse because the new interest rate was 18 1/4%. She asked "What can we do?" We renewed for one year and borrowed from a friend at the end to pay off the mortgage. I paid back the personal loan with interest within one year. Oh yeah, my wife was a stay-at-home mother at the time because our sons were very young. Yes it was tough. But we set priorities and stuck to them.

BTW the friend I borrowed from is still a very good friend.

This decision and sacrifice made so long ago has paid off in spades over the years.

I suppose that I might modify my stand somewhat and advocate the setting of priorities and knowing what it is you are paying out. With today's computers and software it's easy. I did it the hard way with a calculator. Then I bought mortgage amortization tables which so opened my wife's eyes to the alternatives.

H.F. Wolff

Anger is an interesting emotion. I have heard it said over and over in the last
little while that being angry at another person and holding that anger is a bit
like drinking a tiny bit of poison everyday and expecting the other person to
die.

I have come to believe that to be a true statement. It has been my observation
that angry people tend to get sick, they have ulcers, they have high blood
pressure and heart problems, etc. etc. I don’t see anything positive in being
angry, although I can see where some people would like the majority of the
people to stay in a state of anger.

We see a lot of anger on vive these days. I have yet to see it reap positive
results.
It seems to me that each of us has a responsibility to share what we know,
what has worked for us, what has not, and allow others the ability and
perhaps the time to digest information. We are not responsible for saving the
world. We can only do our part. This is very liberating for me. In the past I felt
the panic of sharing, the sense that everybody is asleep and the pressure of
'why don't they see?' But in the end, we each see reality as we and only we can
see it. We can't make another person see. When they are ready, willing and
perhaps able they will see. It may be too late, it may not be, but if we really
want to share we have to do it in a way that others can hear it.

Take a look at some of the people who are walking around doing some very
evil (?) or unhealthy things, they may or may not be acting on anger. The
same can be said for those doing very good things. I used to think that
righteous anger was a good thing, but I don’t see it that way anymore. I think
you can see things that are not right and take action to correct them without
being angry. Anger tends to confuse, to blind a person from clear solutions
and clear decisions.

For myself, I learned a long time ago, that people do not hear or respond
positively to negatives, to alarms, to screaming and panic. They don't
respond to fear by taking action, instead they run or hide or scream back at
the messenger. Sometimes too much
information can overload a person and they simply walk away from it.

I see different trends here on vive, some people express info as if they just
discovered the atom, with excitement, awe etc and expect others to react in
the same way. When they don't, the poster becomes angry. Sometimes the
posters take the reaction as a personal attack, sometimes people do attack
the messenger. The thing that I find unsettling is that for the most part we
are all wanting the same thing, yet we fight each other over the path to
getting there. When I read the anger from a posting, sometimes in the article
itself, the comments usually follow that same path. So what is accomplished
by that anger? Does anyone feel better? Does anything become better? Have
we solved the problem? We fight about who knows what and when we knew
it, when we
ought to be saying, ‘ Thanks for sharing your point of view. Sometimes it is
an opinion, not a fact, sometimes it is a fact but not really backed up by
evidence, and so the reader is free to decide if they agree or do not agree
with the post. That is freedom. We can also choose to say, ‘ok, so now we
know and what are we going to do to
continue on the path?’ We know about another level or layer of deception, or
corruption or whatever it might be, but that doesn't change the ultimate goal
we all have, which is freedom, truth, justice and equality for all, a healthy
planet with healthy people etc. But if we continue to quarrel about who
knows what, who is right about the past etc. then we don't move forward at
all. Again I use the example of a fire. A room within a house is on fire. Do we
try to put it out, or try to figure out how it started? Was it the stove, the
cigarette, the kid playing with matches? Do we argue that we saw the flame
first, or that we were the first to declare it was a fire and not just smoke?
What is the best course of action in that situation? What is the best course of
action for vive posters and Canadians in general to take after we all know that
the country is going down the tubes, that our freedom is on the line, that the
layers of deception are clearly evident, even if we don’t know all the players
etc etc? What should we do? Work together or argue about who knows what?

That is my observation from the last few weeks on vive, and I hope that we
can move on from this anger over the messengers, the truth speakers, and
stop fussing and attacking each other over the methods that we each use. I
don’t see anger as being the path to our goals. I don’t believe that story
about Jesus in the Temple is an example of ‘even Jesus got angry’ so its also
ok for us. I believe that was an example to indicate that he was truly human,
even though he was also God. But again that is my interpretation of that
historical event, it does not mean I’m right. Just not angry. Let's get on with
the journey to our freedom! My two cents worth for your
consideration.

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"aaaah and the whisper of thousands of tiny voices became a mighty deafening roar and they called it 'freedom'!"' Canadians Acting Humanely at home & everywhere

I don’t see the assertion as “old fashioned” and it is good advise for those whose means at least sixty thousand plus before taxes Home purchases id out of the question for most Canadians wanting to make their first home purchase Let me give you an example I treated a friend to lunch today as appreciation for favours he has extended the Bill was thirty six dollars for soup and sandwich for me, lasagne for him, two café’ latte, pie a la mode for both I was shocked We ate in a small “Bistro” in Endery BC Nothing special about the place I assure you. In order for one to even exist in today’s world they have to earn the king of dollars I quotes above That the Banksters (banks + Gangster) own us all is not a question That we must accept in payment and use their fiat dollars is a fait a compli Here in what is known as the Brokenagan some people must work several jobs to ‘earn their keep’ Those who control money also control means Some Do make it Most do not <p>---<br>"The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough.<br />
<br />
- Father Bede Jarrett <br />
(with thanks to Willie T)<br />

Thank you for that Catherine, as usual you put a perspective on the subject that we all must consider. We all here must indeed remember the main objective of Vive and concentrate our efforts upon saving Canada, whether from foreign or corporate take over, and whether by action or just providing information and opinion.
Great post.


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When you are up to your ass in alligators it is difficult to remember that the initial objective was to drain the swamp

Well said. As Dio points out too, 'pride of location' is also dividing us as much as anger is. I've tried to get people to see these elephants giving birth on the coffee table.

Sometimes, to 'sit cross legged and chant*' may be the best thing to help us accomplish our goals. It clears and focuses the mind.

*this is a euphemism for whatever one finds relaxing. It may be drinking whisky and playing cards.

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The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.

It's ALL usefull Doc but only when it is a part of rather than the main thrust of <br />
<br />
<br />
Anger is not a simple emotion and often misunderstood as though it were.<br />
It is the fashion of the get your head together movement to make pronouncements that support only their position or agendi <br />
While peace love and good vibes are desirable they are only part of the whole.<br />
<br />
. <br />
<br />
There is a much overlooked phenomena of ‘set and setting’ and it does pertain to observations of us all and how those observations at tendered.<br />
The newness of a more harmonious way of thinking can often be narcotic like, or to use a different metaphor “When the only tool you have is a hammer , all things stat to look like nails”<br />
Anger is a reaction to and that fact seems always easily lost to levelers* (It is the last definition that is apt here)<br />
The desire to level out emotions becomes a two edge sword in as much as peaks and valleys are leveled out and while there are times, repeat, times, when that is desirable <br />
Leveling is hardly a placebo for all situations, and this is what must be always taken into account.<br />
<br />
Counter to what I have read and believe to understand I believe there are no useless emotions, there are however, depending on the disposition of those sitting in judgment (set and setting **) <br />
The narrow version of anger will cause the body reactions you site, Catherine.<br />
However anger (reaction) will also spur people on to make change or to rectify untenable situations, and I’m sure when the readers think about that they will be able to associate what I’ve said with their own experiences.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
On the face of it what you say about what we see is reasonable the fact that, as you say, “But in the end, we each see reality as we and only we can <br />
see it. We can't make another person see.” Is also chaos causing and very much relied on and desired by those who set up the systems we al live under. Communication being a two-way experience there is also an onus on the listen to follow the second part of communication and realize that the original speaker is offering their truth and the listeners job is to try and imagine what that truth is.( I have offered this for consideration in the past.)<br />
<br />
While much of what you say has value and is appreciated it is also indicative of a mind set that negates, I realize the difficulties of communicating via the written word and will as of late take the time to compose on Word what I have to say. I sometimes labour obver which words I will use for tens of minutes editing and re-editing until I have what I want to say or give up in frustration and delete whole responses <br />
<br />
We are now in the times of sever pressure brought about by the “Masters of the Universe” and pussyfooting around issues that will decide the fate of generation requires passion, not attacking as both mary and rural feel the need to do so when it comes to me. You may turn the other cheek to be slapped into submission and that is your choice <br />
I on the other hand will constantly point out and address inequity with the understanding some “get it” and others will not BUT that in no way give them permission to attack me because <br />
I happen to pay attention to what is going on in the world and have spoken to it on Vive and other forums<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
* lev•el•er / &#712;lev(&#601;)l&#601;r/ (Brit. lev•el•ler) • n. 1. a person who advocates the abolition of social distinctions. &#8718; (Leveller) an extreme radical dissenter in the English Civil War (1642–49), calling for the abolition of the monarchy, social and agrarian reforms, and religious freedom. 2. a person or thing that levels something<br />
** <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4SUNA_enCA228&q=%22set+and+setting%22+%2B+psychology">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4SUNA_enCA228&q=%22set+and+setting%22+%2B+psychology</a><br />
<br />
<p>---<br>"The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough.<br />
<br />
- Father Bede Jarrett <br />
(with thanks to Willie T)<br />

Chronic anger can indeed become debilitating. Hence my earlier comment that being angry is insufficient by itself because it eventually turns into frustration. The result is sickness, and aggression often turned against friend and family.

Honest anger may become the impetus to "do something, anything", because the cause of the anger is no longer tolerable. Palestinian suicide bombers spring to mind as the extreme manifestation of "no longer tolerable". (Agreed this may be a separate point for discussion).

If the anger is channeled into a course of action with a positive outcome, we have constructive anger, and the development of frustration, with all its negative side effects, is in all likelihood curtailed.

It is my frustration with our "democracy" that caused me to think about and formulate a course of action any voter can implement. I am, of course, referring to my earlier essay on "Some Thoughts on Improving Our Democracy".

I don't think that I have read too many alternative or additional activities to those I had listed in my essay. Diogenes admonished me on my advice to 'live within your means', which was debated above. Let my closing comment on this be that the voter needs to pick a course of action that is doable within his/her sphere of influence. Doing nothing, or doing the same thing over and over again hoping for an improvement in government, is sheer madness.

H.F. Wolff

Now here’s an irony <br />
The thread speaks of an anger towards the BC government and it’s leaders attitude towards the working class.<br />
<br />
In Catherine’s view “angry people tend to get sick, they have ulcers, they have high blood <br />
pressure and heart problems, etc. etc” and while there is a truth in that there is Also a truth in people getting sick having ulcers high blood pressure and heart attacks due to worry , worry about paying the mortgage or getting your child’s teeth fixed or a myriad of other expenses, Is you job secure? Will the government cut backs put you on the welfare role <br />
All these worries justify anger, far more than anyone need experience. BILL TIELEMAN is right to be anger! BC Mary is right to offer the article for our viewing <br />
And I am right to let the anger I feel rise up and flow out of me at these as well as personal injustices made by mud slingers.<br />
What is not right is that any of these things I mention, personal or by the hand of government need be felt.<br />
<br />
I would say the “some” kinds of anger are indeed useful as ear some types of meditation as pointed out by the Doc, but when any emotion takes ove like the obsession of chucking shit at those not liked then it become a sickness <br />
I sometimes forget in my rants or counter attacks to identify the behaviour as undesirable and not the person.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SUNA_enCA228CA228&q=how+anger+comes+about">http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SUNA_enCA228CA228&q=how+anger+comes+about</a> <br />
I have not only expressed my anger I have told where it comes from <br />
But what I wonder <br />
Is the source of my protagonist’s anger … bad spelling?<br />
That leads to the game of “I’ve got you now you son of a bitch” compounded with the game of “Lets choose sides” leading to the game of “Lets teach him/her a lesson”<br />
And all the while the real culprits like Campbell Kline Bush Blair do the bidding of their owners<br />
<br />
<br />
<p>---<br>"The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough.<br />
<br />
- Father Bede Jarrett <br />
(with thanks to Willie T)<br />

Interesting thoughts Dio ....anger and worry

"And I am right to let the anger I feel rise up and flow out of me at these as
well as personal injustices made by mud slingers."

If this is right for you, then why would I be concerned? I am not. If letting it
flow works, if it achieves the results one desires then I expect it is right for
you or anyone else who choses that path.

However, I see a connection between the anger and worry comments above.
Both are in my opinion destructive. Both are choices. What do either get us? I
can worry endlessly about paying the bills or the sick child etc etc....what will
worry do for me? It is said that worry does in fact create illness, so now I have
mounting bills and a sick child and an ulcer, if I chose to accept this path.

Worry or fear are the tools that paralyze the masses. Worry because we feel
powerless. That is how we are controlled best. I look at an example during
WW2, (from what I've read about it) the resistance movement could have said
we are worried about this situation, we are angry and we are helpless or they
could have observed the situation, thought clearly, made a plan and taken
action. I believe they chose the latter.

If you know what to do, you don't worry about it. If you know you have
choices you move in one direction or another, but if you are stuck in either
anger or worry you don't move. And contrary to the statements above that
anger can make a person take action, I would disagree, while in the state of
anger we usually move but is it the right action? When real results happen, it
is after the anger has subsided and we are able to think clearly. People who
are in a rage do not think clearly. It could happen that in a rage the right
decision occurs, but I don't believe that is usually the case. Often decisions or
action made in anger are regretted and the person frequently claims, I was
blinded by my anger...I wish I had of stepped back from the situation but
what could I do, I was so angry?

I would ask that if someone could show me an example of either worry or
anger having a positive outcome, I would consider those examples.

My first reaction when I found out what was happening to my country, back a
few years ago, was anger. That anger took me nowhere. It caused me stress.
It caused me to worry and wonder what would become of us, where would the
future take us etc etc. It caused me to lash out at those who I believed were
behind the scenes and it created an impatience towards those who would not
listen, would not hear the message and would not take action to make the
changes necessary.

I am no longer worried. I am not even angry. I am aware. I am informed and I
am considering the relevant information and taking action towards solutions.
I am not as interested in exactly how every little deal was made, or who all
the players are etc, because I know it doesn't matter. What matters is that we
chose the path we want. We buy from manufacturers that we want to support.
We grow our food or buy it and send the message in that way. I am not
getting a passport. I am not planning to travel to the US, and if my work
demanded it, I would refuse. I would state that I have no intention of
travelling to a state that threatens, imprisons innocent people, and that has
no respect for human rights. I have choices. When we have choices we feel
empowered, because we are. That does not mean I accept the things going on
that are impoverishing people, but raging about it won't give them food,
housing, education etc.

One thing I know without a doubt is that nobody hears when we scream. I
know because I do not listen to people when they scream at me, or when they
curse at me or disrespect me as a human being. I just do not listen. So why
would I get angry and worry about this stuff as if I can't do something about
it. I can. Someone brilliant once said, it is not the things that happen to us
that matter it is how we chose to deal with them that does. Or words to that
effect. Makes sense to me. I'm not saying that anger and worry do not exist
or are not natural human emotions which we've learned to accept and expect
in ourselves and others, but I am saying that if something does not serve the
purpose any longer then why continue to use it?

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"aaaah and the whisper of thousands of tiny voices became a mighty deafening roar and they called it 'freedom'!"' Canadians Acting Humanely at home & everywhere

In order to respond to what you have present I would have to answer each and every though and each sentence contains a thought so I won’t go there. How you view things depends on how you are wired or re-wired: what you know and what you have learned as you grow, assuming the “you” experiences growth in an intellectual way, a spiritual way or any other way.
I see a recurring theme here Catherine, and that theme depends entirely on one being stuck in an emotion. I shared ten year of life with Bipolar/ manic depressive woman and I know about being stuck in emotion.
Or state and that is why I have offered in the past NLP Articles on state management. I offered the articles because they give the process by which one, if they so desired could move beyond the states they felt trapped in.

In some instances she would be depressed and crying for weeks on end and be obsessed with only that which depressed her.
No fun for any around her I can assures you
To this otherwise fine person what you are saying in no way got her out of her stuff.
The medication didn’t do it the Health care service didn’t do it and she to this day is unable to move beyond were she is, on a permanent basis.
What we have to have is an experience of the thing to be done to move us beyond where we are, if that be our desire
Words on paper are at best description: the map and the map ain’t the territory it is only a representation of.

As a suggestion why don’t you invite the author, BILL TIELEMAN to a discussion about his assertions on anger, or you can make comments on his site.

Stick to your guns! But Catherine, you and I both know that
Believe it or not I am also an optimist I believe that people have enough good sense to determine what is and what is not
…. Until that is
No consideration has been given
Are you familiar with Elisabeth Kubler-Ross and the concept of stages?
Anger is a stage Catherine, Only one of many stages in a process If you choose to hold it otherwise and see and in a limited fashion so be it But please do not hang that concept on others.

It is your concept. you own it. And believe me, or not, Catherine it is not definitive


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"The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough.

- Father Bede Jarrett
(with thanks to Willie T)