Sears Flogs Cdn Army: "Support Our Troop" T-Shirts

War is not like a hockey game where you drink beer, eat cheesedogs, and cheer on the home team for fun. I have no reason to "support the troops" whatever that means, but I have a very good reason to ask out loud why Canadian troops have been sent off to kill and maim for reasons that appear to be outright lies.

If I'm going to do anything to help the troops, it will be to force the criminals in our government to call them back home so that they can do a legitimate job of protecting Canadian sovereignty. But then again, do I really want these guys back home? What if the people decide they've had enough of a criminal government that lies to us and passes illegal laws to bolster its own power base? Should I fear the troops instead of support them?

Yup!
to all the questions

The State will be obeyed, ........and is!

You and i and maybe a couple of others don't see it that way , is all

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"And God said: 'Let there be Satan, so people don't blame everything on me. And let there be lawyers, so people don't blame everything on Satan."

* George Bu

So, you're ready and willing to write off an entire class of people who IN GOOD FAITH did what their government asked them to?

Sometimes the narrow mindedness here almost makes me want to puke.

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The two most common things in the universe are apparently Hydrogen and stupidity.

They Support Us --- Let’s Support Them!™<br />
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Civilians have stepped forward and founded the permanent national nonprofit <Support Our Troops, Inc.> as a concrete statement of thanks to our troops. We do this by looking out for their families while they are looking out for ours. <br />
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We are civvies assisting soldiers' survivors and families. We do for them that do for us. <br />
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For the soldiers and families sacrificing to protecting all of us, We are going to help keep their families intact while their parent(s) are engaged in protecting our families. We are going to help pay for education, medical, home needs, emergency transportation, and the like -- the kinds of things that dad or mom would do if they were home. <br />
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<a href="http://supportthem.com/about/">http://supportthem.com/about/</a><p>---<br>Perception is two thirds of what we perceive reality to be.<br />
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Difficult decisions are a privilege of rank.<br />

I have a friend in the military. No matter what I say, he's persuaded that if he's sent to Afghanistan, he will be able to protect the widow and the orphan from the evil Talibans. Seriously, how naive is that?

Soldiers should be those who are the most aware of the tricks of politicians. After all, they are putting their lives on the line for their leaders. But what's more, they are involving innocent people in their wars. Soldiers kill. That's their purpose. If their governments lie and order them to kill innocents, they will kill innocents. So "GOOD FAITH", as you put it, doesn't mean a damn.

The question Rearguard asks is valid I think. We shouldn't fear the troops, but we must be wary. If all the government has to do is to designate someone as an "enemy" for the soldiers to obey and kill, how safe are we, really? It's like giving guns and bombs to children. My friend will obey without question to the government because he trusts our leaders. So, what if he is told that the enemy are a family whose father spoke against their government? Or that they were targeted, based on false information? Chances are he will murder them, thinking all in "good faith" that they were evil terrorists. More than anyone, soldiers *must* know who they are fighting and why. If they can't, it's our job to discover why wars are really fought and who are suffering from them.

When you play with people lives, you cannot afford to have "good faith" or "good intents". If you screw up, innocents die and it is your fault. You need good *means* and good *results*. End of story. You cannot escape the results of your acts just because you had good intents. Try telling that to the victims, we'll see what happens.

The Sharp Wolf

"The way to Hell is paved with good intents."

The sad thing to me is that all these "ball caps, t-shirts, car and fridge magnets, cling vinyl window decals, bracelets, lapel pins, and more" will obviously be out-sourced (or purchased outright from) the countries where this stuff is normally produced. Absolutely none of it will "support" (to use the s-word) Canadian industry.

"So, you're ready and willing to write off an entire class of people who IN GOOD FAITH did what their government asked them to?"

I can understand that all of them were fooled by Sept 11 at the beginning, but now there's no more excuse. I don't see too many soldiers sticking their necks out and saying "No Sir!", do you?

"Sometimes the narrow mindedness here almost makes me want to puke."

OK, so let's talk about narrow mindedness a little ...

The troops were NOT asked to do anything, they were given orders and were expected to follow through else face the threat of imprisonment, and like all good soldiers, they followed through without question. What if the government asked them to put down a protest right here at home with a hail of bullets, would they also act in "GOOD FAITH" without any reservations?

Trained killers who act on command without any thought of their own over extended periods of time make me nervous, which is why I asked the question "Should we support them or fear them?".

I understand fully that solders are regular people capable of independent thought like anyone else, however they all have have been carefully selected for certain traits and have gone through a very effective brainwashing program which has made them less able to think normally, otherwise there'd be very few soldiers willing to kill and die because some rich guy told them to.

I have to assume that there are at least a few solders who have managed to shake off the brainwashing enough to figure out that they are being lied to, and my hat goes off to those who HAVE done the right thing and quit. I only wish there were enough to make a difference.

I know I'm upsetting some people by saying these things, but are you upset because you don't agree, or because it's the ugly truth you'd rather not face?

"For the soldiers and families sacrificing to protecting all of us"

This kind of jingoism makes me wonder what's the difference between a Canadian war monger and an American one.

None of those people are lifting a finger to protect me from the criminals in power who are passing illegal laws and selling off the entire country to foreign controlled interests.

Support China - buy a ball cap and t-shirt!

"None of those people are lifting a finger to protect me from the criminals in power who are passing illegal laws and selling off the entire country to foreign controlled interests."

That is true, but I think we should not be hostile towards the soldiers. Some of them, like my friend, are in there because they were failing in schools and they were told that they could make a living this way, while helping people at the same time. We have to remember that the "berserk warmonger" types are the minority. Indeed, many people enlist in the military because they thought it was the only way out, so they must be quite scared as it is. After all, if the government cuts military funds and they get fired, how are they going to earn a living? Also, what if they speak out against the army? Will they be thrown in jail? If they're thrown in jail, who's going to feed their families?

See where I'm going?

I think the best way to undermine the system would be to educate the soldiers, and give them alternatives to the Army. They way I see it, most are caught in the crossfire as much as any other person. We must not be hostile to them, far from it. If we do, then when the government order them to shoot us, they will do so without any hesitation. On the contrary, we must show them other ways, we must help them see the truth about the wars they fight in and how they are being used to bring suffering (and profit to the elite) rather than to help everyone. And when they gather their courage and get out of the Army, there must be ways for them and their family to live properly.

The current military system has been built so that everyone outside it is seen by those inside as an opponent, a potential threat, while the government is the only reliable ally. We must make it otherwise. Soldiers, unless they are actively threatening you, must not be considered as enemies. If we do, how can we expect them to treat us any other way?

The Sharp Wolf

"The process of dehumanization, both of the soldiers and their opponents, is central to military training. In order to undermine the power of the military, we must first reverse this conditioning."

"So, you're ready and willing to write off an entire class of people who IN GOOD FAITH did what their government asked them to?

Sometimes the narrow mindedness here almost makes me want to puke."

Yes I am! what you call "good faith" I call slavishness,
And while you're talking into the porcelain telephone to Ralph be sure to mention the who placed their faith in a corrupt system were easlily lied to because the lack the capacity to think critically about what they are told to believe.

But then that would be to far of a reach, wouldn't it?





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"And God said: 'Let there be Satan, so people don't blame everything on me. And let there be lawyers, so people don't blame everything on Satan."

* George Bu

“None of those people are lifting a finger to protect me from the criminals in power who are passing illegal laws and selling off the entire country to foreign controlled interests”

This to me is the most valid point of all.


I suspect Deacon to be miffed at the superbrain due to my lack of respect to the religion that has a one of G*ds commandments to his children, and I will cap it, “THOU SHALT NOT KILL’
I saw no para 3 subsection iivv attached to the commandments,
“All commandments off the table in time of war”


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"And God said: 'Let there be Satan, so people don't blame everything on me. And let there be lawyers, so people don't blame everything on Satan."

* George Bu

No, I'm just rather miffed at the arrogance that would apparently write off an entire class of people, apparently without even giving them the chance to change their point of view.

Last time I checked, there was no draft in Canada, therefore it's safe to assume that when the soldiers signed up, they expected that the Government would NOT use them in an unjust way.

Seems reasonable enough to me.

Once you're in the field, obviously military discipline is going to be maintained, as well as everything that goes along with it.

By the way, why don't one of you hotshots who condemned the troops in the two posts prior to mine show me EXACTLY where you gave them the chance to change their POV and mindset?

Go ahead, point it out to me.

Oh and Diogenes, if you expect me to give you chapter and verse in the New Testament that shows where Jesus and John the Baptist didn't condemn soldiers for their professions, you can keep dreaming.

I'm sure you've read the NT, and if you haven't haven't well I guess you're basing your opinions on ignorance.

I also sure you can read at least as well as I can, and you've been on the rag about my beliefs ever since I politely asked you to change your sig a few days ago.

That you still seem obsessed with that event is something I am getting use to.

Most people would have forgotten about it by now.

Guess we can chalk it up to your "superior" indigo brain.

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The two most common things in the universe are apparently Hydrogen and stupidity.

Personally, I'd prefer shirts that say "I support the troops, but NOT the mission".

As I have said before, use our troops for peacekeeping, and not to spearhead US imperialism.

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The two most common things in the universe are apparently Hydrogen and stupidity.