The US view is in full-out panic about the rise of China - that the supremacy of the US is threatened. It recommends following a similar strategy to the UK in 1900 – and to isolate China. The US is doing this currently.
The Chinese government is pretending to ignore this. But if the Chinese population find out about it - they will demand that China take counter-measures.
An international incident, such as something happening in Taiwan, could drive the US and China into cold war.
If that happens, we won't have the kind of international agreement on climate change that we need to avert disaster.
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[BRACEWELL: My deepest gratitude to: Yappa Ding Ding]
Gwynne Dyer: Climate Wars Gwynne Dyer: Climate Wars
Tonight at the University of Waterloo, Gwynne Dyer launched a world-wide lecture tour. The title of his tour is "Climate Wars." It's must-hear. This post is from my notes.
Dyer argues that the effect of uncontrolled global warming will be:
- mass starvation
- mass population movement
- war
......He says if we let climate change go to the tipping point we will face dire changes in rainfall distribution that will change agricultural production that will in turn destabilize world politics.
......He says many governments and institutions are studying the implications of climate change on the world food supply and other factors, but they're keeping it quiet.
WHERE & HOW CROPS GROW
The way it works now is that water is absorbed into the atmosphere at the equator and then comes down, in most part, at around the same latitude north and south of the equator. This results in a band of desert at about 20-25% latitude north and south of the equator, and just past that desert band there is a breadbasket.
......Global warming causes the rain to shift further away from the equator.
WHAT WILL HAPPEN – BY REGION
......Dyer talked to a researcher in India who recently did a study for the World Bank on the effect on Indian agricultural production if the mean temperature rises by 2 degrees and 5 degrees Celsius. (These are the lower and upper limit on what is expected to happen this century.)
......Her conclusion: at a 2 degree increase, India's agricultural production will decrease by 25%. I didn't quite get what he said about a 5 degree increase but it seemed to be close to no agricultural production. The World Bank has not made this study public.
Other studies predict that if the temperature rises by 5 degrees, the world will lose 50 to 70% of its agricultural production. The US agricultural breadbasket, the Midwest, will be hit hard.
......At a 5 degree increase, the US will lose more than half of its agricultural production.
Greece, Italy, Spain and southern France will also do very badly.
Australia, China and India will lose almost all their agricultural production.
Canada (with the exception of southern Manitoba), Britain, Russia, Japan, Scandinavia, Tasmania and New Zealand will be fine.
...... Some of those countries might even become a bit more productive. It might be difficult to bring agriculture online in the far north, however, because the land will be water-logged.
COUNTRIES & FOOD
......When Dyer was born, in 1943, there were 2 billion people. There are now 6.5 billion. The prediction is that the population will plateau at 8.5 billion. That is already pushing to the limit our ability to feed ourselves. Dyer says that about the only way we have left to increase our agricultural productivity is to stop diverting so much grain to meat production. But currently there is very little slack in the system. The world has less than a 45-day reserve of grain.
...... Dyer says that Britain is one of the most knowledgeable countries in this area because, in part, Margaret Thatcher was a trained chemist and she understood what the climatologists were talking about. Britain is conducting massive research on the issue with the idea that they may become "lifeboat Britain" - an island with food surrounded by countries without.
...... Russia, too, faces a problem because of its border with China. In China, only Manchuria will retain agricultural productivity if the temperature rises by 5 degrees.
THE REPORTED SCIENCE
......Dyer stressed that his figures, which largely come from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, are conservative.
......The Panel works by consensus, so tends to low-ball figures. Their predictions also take into account that many countries are lowering emissions. Their predictions don't take into account unknowns such as methane gas being released when the permafrost melts or other possible types of ecological collapse.
...... Over the 150 years since the industrial revolution, 95% of man-made green house gas emissions have come from the wealthy northern countries. At the start of the industrial revolution, atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide was 285 parts per million. Now it's 380 parts per million, and rising 4 ppm per year. The point of no return is thought to be 450-550 ppm.
AVERTING DISASTER
......Dyer thinks that we can still avert disaster.
He says that outside the US and Canada, emissions are stabilized. Northern countries have significantly improved the amount of GDP they get from a ton of emission.
......The reason we need a framework like Kyoto is that emissions/GDP and overall emissions are increasing in southern countries as they industrialize.
He said, "They may be adding the bit that makes the cup overflow but we filled the cup." Climate change initiative must be global and must address this issue.
Northern countries need to make deeper cuts so that southern countries can grow. Dyer said that developing countries like India are very aware of the dilemma they're in of needing to industrialize to meet their citizens' basic needs, but the planet being in a precarious situation. He said they're extremely bitter about the level of pollution caused by the north.
......Dyer thinks that the US is finally coming around - that the coal, gas and electricity industries had flooded the media with PR and junk science to deny global warming, but that now even they have cut it out and the government is acknowledging the need to do something. The good news, he said, is that once the US gets going they can be very effective.
......He said this is about the best time in the history of the world for us to have to deal with a problem like this. It's a golden age: we're at peace, unified, and have strong international agreements.
ISOLATING CHINA – SITUATION MAY BECOME TERMINAL
......But, he says, we won't be able to deal effectively with global climate change if we slip into another cold war. And another cold war is what the Bush administration has been heading us towards.
......According to Dyer, the Bush government is in full-out panic about the rise of China. He said the buzz at the American Enterprise Institute (enormously influential to the Bush people) is that the US is currently facing what Britain faced in 1900.
......In 1900, Britain had been a global superpower for about 50 years. There were two countries who threatened Britain's position: Germany and Russia. (Britain's traditional enemy was France, but it was not then a threat.) Germany was stronger, so Britain chose to isolate it. Britain made treaties with countries surrounding Germany, including Russia, and so squeezed it. Britain's tactics were successful (except for the two world wars), and it retained its position for an extra 50 years.
......The position of many at the American Enterprise Institute is that the supremacy of the US is threatened, and it should follow a similar strategy. The two main economic threats are India and China, but China is the bigger threat so the Bush administration has made significant moves to isolate it.
......The US has pressured Japan to remilitarize. The US has moved the 7th fleet into the area. They have made a number of treaties and pacts, including with Singapore, but the main one is with India.
...... India was non-aligned since its independence, but that changed with the 2005 military cooperation agreement it signed with the US. The Bush administration has been wooing India for years to reach this agreement. India gets all sorts of things out of it: full technology transfer (which the US doesn't even give to its NATO allies), missile defense, military training. Congress has voted to take India off the nuclear blacklist (which it has been on since its 1998 nuclear tests) and allow it to trade in nuclear technology.
...... Dyer cited an official visit made to India by Condoleeza Rice. A state department spokesperson announced at a press conference that the US would help make India into a great power by the 21st century. Someone asked: Do you mean in all aspects, including military? The spokesperson answered yes. Dyer said he has heard this exchange quoted at least 20 times in India.
Dyer says that for now, China is taking the high road on this, pretending to ignore what the US is doing so as not to provoke them further. But if the Chinese population find out about it - an ironic twist given the west's demands for greater freedoms for the Chinese populace - then they will demand that China take counter-measures.
And at this point, an international incident, such as something happening in Taiwan, could drive the US and China into cold war. If that happens, we won't have the kind of international agreement on climate change that we need to avert disaster.
Note: If there are any poorly argued statements in this post or any incorrect facts, it's much more likely to be due to my note-taking than mistakes by the speaker.
Another Dyer Article: Planetary Maintenance Engineer
Note: Gwynne Dyer: Climate...
Planetary Maintenance ...

To the best of my knowledge, even some of the US missile guidance systems are now manufactured in China ?
But then this is the power of globalized wealth creation, that overrules all logic and ideologies.
Watch for the Chinese kicking the WTO and all these carpetbaggers out once they feel strong enough.
Them guys ain't stupid, like our own politicians dancing to the strings of their corporate puppet masters.
Ed Deak.
There's a damn good reason they have the world's longest running civilization.
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The two most common things in the universe are apparently Hydrogen and stupidity.
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Memetic repetitiveness’ mire the mind.<br />
Dio. (c)<br />
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Follow the bouncing ball and sing along!<br />
All of the following definitions describe the antithesis to critical thinking.<br />
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Welcome to Uncle Dio's Brain Laundry where we apply <br />
Antiviral agents so's the minds functions are locked on to Common Scense.<br />
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Back to the point!<br />
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Had I read the Chinese Elite or even the elite of the Chinese I might have bit.<br />
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<a href="http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/MEMES.html">http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/MEMES.html</a> <br />
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Dawkins listed the following three characteristics for any successful replicator: <br />
copying-fidelity: <br />
the more faithful the copy, the more will remain of the initial pattern after several rounds of copying. If a painting is reproduced by making photocopies from photocopies, the underlying pattern will quickly become unrecognizable. <br />
fecundity: <br />
the faster the rate of copying, the more the replicator will spread. An industrial printing press can churn out many more copies of a text than an office copying machine. <br />
longevity: <br />
the longer any instance of the replicating pattern survives, the more copies can be made of it. A drawing made by etching lines in the sand is likely to be erased before anybody could have photographed or otherwise reproduced it. <br />
<p>---<br>"And God said: 'Let there be Satan, so people don't blame everything on me. And let there be lawyers, so people don't blame everything on Satan."<br />
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* George Bu
Drop the PC act, it doesn't suit you.
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The two most common things in the universe are apparently Hydrogen and stupidity.
As if you were too damn stupid to know that the first time around.
if you were Indy I might have bought it.
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The two most common things in the universe are apparently Hydrogen and stupidity.
Ethanol from plants is a scam anyways - a feel good measure and a gift to some in big business. Small scale biomass fuel for domestic/local consumption is one thing, but what they are proposing is not going to work over the long run.
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If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.
Think about that for a moment. Isn't it a good thing for poor farmers who's grain price at market has fallen because of oversupply from western subsidized farmers?
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The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.
Poor hungry people don't compete well against the forces of energy demand. The US just signed a deal with Brazil in regards to ethanol and some are in my estimation making the correct assumption about that - it's a 21st century resource grab, like all the resource grabs before it. Corporate growers will push out the small food growers and the problem gets worse once again... Cue "history repeating"
Mass ethanol fuel cannot and will not work.
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If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.
Politically correct?
Me? There’s a good one.
Weren’t you the one braying like a jackass about denigrating whole classes of people?
I have no idea what is eating at your Christian addled little mind these days deacon but whatever it is gedoverit!
But Hey! (Change of heart here.) If taking shots at me blows your skirt up have at it. All I have to do is remember this and associate it with you
Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man, living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send *you* to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever til the end of time...but he loves you." -- George Carlin
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"And God said: 'Let there be Satan, so people don't blame everything on me. And let there be lawyers, so people don't blame everything on Satan."
* George Bu
I beg to differ.
Brasil runs most of it's vehicles on E-85 or better Ethanol, made from sugar cane. But I don't hear of sugar shortages in Brasil or South America for that matter. (I do hear of the massive land use for cane sugar though).
Remember my links on switchgrass? I think that could work for us. Lots of usable land, and the grass is easy to grow. Ethanol from corn or wheat? Yea I could see that as unsustainable.
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The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.
Here, at Vive, a reasonably secure bastion of "free speech" and we have someone who is so into their own "free speech" that they threaten to browbeat anyone who offends them in any way, shape, or form.
This self-appointed moderator in waiting is actually proud of their seeming instability, and reputation for being offensive.
Hooray for them, and their neurosis.
No one here is obliged to bend their will or point of view to suit anyone else.
Even if that "anyone else" happens to be the almighty Diogenes.
If he wishes to go off, and hijack every thread here on Vive in order to harass me or anyone else he deems unworthy, I expect full well that he will.
But in my case, he will receive no reply unless he actually says something worth replying to.
I have a good idea what lengths he'll go to in order to provoke a reply, but then I am not obliged to play his little game.
So, without further delay, I present to you "The Diogenes Smoke and Mirrors Travelling Attention Whore Review".
Enjoy the show, I know I will.
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The two most common things in the universe are apparently Hydrogen and stupidity.
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"And God said: 'Let there be Satan, so people don't blame everything on me. And let there be lawyers, so people don't blame everything on Satan."
* George Bu
Anything you have to say can be said up front and in the open.
So no, I won't be bothered reading your email.
If you can't say it openly, it's not worth my time reading.
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The two most common things in the universe are apparently Hydrogen and stupidity.
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Vive is not our Private Flambé Club and I realise there is a readership to consider, actually I've realised that from before I joined and that was the appeal, and it is with that in mind I've offered to not subject the members and general public to further exchages between youi and I.<br />
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I had hoped you had at least more class than I on this matter, however it is obvious to all that is not to be the case.<br />
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<a href="http://www.synec-doc.be/escrime/dico/engl.htm">http://www.synec-doc.be/escrime/dico/engl.htm</a><br />
So, EnGarde! Mon Anie.<br />
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I Invite Riposte! That is if you feel capable.<br />
You will however have to leave you club at home become accstom to a finer tool: Finesse. <br />
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<p>---<br>"And God said: 'Let there be Satan, so people don't blame everything on me. And let there be lawyers, so people don't blame everything on Satan."<br />
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* George Bu