Dehcho First Nation Drop Law Suit

that is no good. now we're going to use clean natural gas to produce dirty crude oil. does that make sense?

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"George Bush has declared the war on terrorism to be the cause of his generation. The cause of Canadian sovereignty will be ours." - John Godfrey, MP for Don Va

Seems that money can make anyone sell out. Same thing happened at Clayoquot Sound, where first nations people once vowed to protect the old growth forest, only to be persuaded into allowing 'some' logging of the forest. And with such sellouts, the majority of the local populations do not benefit, only a few local leaders do.

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Dave Ruston

I thought they wanted their land back?
Money,money,money,money,money,money.......

Typical racist remarks. Sorry, but that's what they are. Clearly the above posters know nothing about natives which make it easy to make such claims. Nothing could be further from the truth, but you have to go to native websites to find out what is going on. Don't take my word for it, go research it. The simple fact is that if you knew anything about the pipeline you would know it is far too important to be stopped by one native band. You saw the lengths the government went to to get a golf course near Montreal.

What the natives actually wanted they stated from the outset, try looking up what that was. Besides the environmental aspect they wanted total self government, and if you know anything about Canada and natives then you know that that is simply not going to happen. Treaty rights in the territories means that if one band gets a concession which previous treaty bands do not, then they automatically gain those concessions. So there is no way in hell that was going to happen, the government would have simply waited for a domestic dispute or something and then relocated the band and weathered the storm.

While money certainly has to do with it, it is only the white man's reasoning that assumes that it is only about money.

What planet are you from? Those aren`t racist remarks at all! What I pointed out was simply the truth- that in these two instances, the first nations groups skillfully play the environmental card, then once their cut is guaranteed (and again, this money doesn`t benefit the whole native community, only a few at the top) then they do an about face! Why say you want to protect old growth forest in Clayoquot Sound, then once you get some say, you actually allow logging? Doesn`t make sense to me. And as for the pipeline, well, years ago, it was the same argument- that this pipeline would destroy their land. Now, magically, things are different.

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Dave Ruston

They're very racist to me, but you may see it differently, that's fine. YOU see it as natives 'skillfully playing the environmental card' which I am stating is a grossly negligent comment and obviously you know little about it. Go research it, virtually hundreds of natives are now writing books about such experiences. Even read a couple.

Clearly if it doesn't make sense to you then you should be reading those books and looking at native websites, even emailing the people involved-believe me, they are the friendliest people you will meet and are very forthright. Unless like other people you LIKE seeing natives in one certain way, I don't know, I don't know you.

I am not in the west, but I'll give my two sense to attempt to clear some of the confusion, but again, I urge people to get their info directly from the source. APTN has some fairly decent programming, although they are funded by the feds.

First, nothing is EVER guaranteed to first nations. The government lies CONSTANTLY, so the government saying 'OK, we'll give you x amount of dollars for such and such' really doesn't go far because the government simply waits a couple years, finds a pretext and cuts off funds.

Second, natives aren't angels visiting earth. Particularly out west natives USED the land. They used controlled fires and selective harvesting all the time. The idea of cutting a tree down is not abhorrent to natives. However, clear cuts and greed are. In BC it is very evident that there is simply no way to stop a multinational corporation who has the three levels of government in its pocket. So there is no 'about face' where natives suddenly say 'we got what we wanted'. It is simply realism. You get out of it what is possible and go from there.

For a pipeline, it is called 'leverage'. Natives have been getting the brush off by government for decades ever since the courts required them to reopen native land claims and treaties. It obviously isn't top of their agenda. No native I've heard has ever said "I'm completely happy with this agreement" about any federal offering. Again, it's realism, there's no way to stop it, so get out of it what you can. For native self government you at least get it out on media what your desires are and people know that it is the federal government denying them. You also get changes in how the project develops, you may get some jobs out of it, more money, or something like that.

For the money aspect of it obviously a white person is going to say 'it only helps a few leaders at the top' because our media typically focuses on band mismanagement and ignores all others. Read up on the Membertou first nations in Sydney, Cape Breton for more on that. Most natives are not like 'us', in that most ventures are community ventures. There's no doubt that our government's forcing our style of government on them has created divisions, but certainly not to the extent as in our populace.

When money comes into a band, typically it goes to the band. In the small native communities it is far harder to hide stashes of money, and it's interesting to note that the federal government through native affairs has been trying to increase the ways for such natives to hide wealth. Native groups are often several families, and it's a lot harder to screw over family.

I have researched it, and have come to the conclusion that natives are just as corrupt as any other race of people. I get just as upset at 'white' Canadians who sell out, or when people like Koffi Annan sell out, etc. Greed is what`s ruining the world! And no, I odn`t just run with what the media focuses on. It`s not hard to see. Just like the government promising transfer payments, or gas tax, etc- it`s not going to benefit the majority of the people! Just the corrupt pigs at the top!

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Dave Ruston

Take for example the Membertou first nations, they took advantage of native rights to set up gambling, yet nobody forces locals to gamble, or gamble on the reserve (they weren't VLT's). They pay dividends to band members as well as fund the city hospital. They are getting attacked by the 'think tanks' for not having the corporation 'act like a white corporation'. Meaning that they share resources. Not completely of course, they use the money to set up partnerships to provide education and employment to the band.

The reason native governments CANNOT be corrupt is because their form of government is FORCED on them-they are not their forms of government. There is no doubt there have been instances of corruption, but that is because of the system which we impose on them. A 'captive' people cannot be morally culpable when they have no power to make decisions. However, let's see the examples so that we can comment on it. Anybody can say 'yeah I read up on it, and everything confirms what I already knew'.

You may disagree with that, that's fine, but let's see the specific examples. If you are saying that finally letting loggers cut in an area, or finally acquiescing to a pipeline is 'corruption', then you really have no idea of what corruption is. Even the James Bay natives capitulated to the Quebec deal simply because they knew they had no other choice, it was get a little something, or get nothing. If you call that corruption, then I'd again have to go back to the racism card. If the government shows up at my door and says 'we're bulding a national park, you have to get out', and I say no, and take it to court, and it becomes clear that they will simply come and knock down my house; then I make some concessions to at least get a little money I highly doubt that if my story were posted here (and it happened to my grandparents pretty much verbatim) you'd be sitting there calling them corrupt. I can't even imagine how somebody COULD call them corrupt or say 'they're just playing the environmental card so they can get more money' or 'they're just giving a sob story to get more dough'. If anything you'd be praising them for standing their ground and showing the world what was happening and defending their rights and being smart enough to get something out of it and maybe control how it happens. If not, then I really can't understand a mind that thinks otherwise, I'll call my mom and comment on how 'corrupt' her parents must have been.