Security Perimeter: Handguns And Borders

Posted on Saturday, January 21 at 10:09 by Termagant
[REFERENCE: http://www.atsnn.com/story/149468.html ], as well as various news reports on continental-security negotiations in the past year.] Mr. Baird admitted that he didn't know, and even told the questioner, "You probably know more about this than I do."(!) At least he was honest about that. However, now it appears that Baird has a bit of a conundrum to answer, since he was saying earlier in the meeting how much he supported the ban on handguns. Earlier in the meeting, Mr. Baird had even complained that nothing was done about cars coming into Canada which never stopped at the border, with the obvious implication that people entering in that manner might not be just impatient travellers. Exhibiting disregard for border controls suggests that they are engaged in some type of smuggling, or carrying drugs or banned weapons. (Or maybe their photo-ID licence plate gives them carte blanche, if Whelan Costen's post about implications of RFID is correct. In that case, all the smuggler has to do is to have connections and to borrow such a car, so that it's not reported as stolen.) I certainly agree with Mr. Baird's concern about cars speeding into Canada without stopping. Will such unmonitored entries to Canada be the norm in this very near future, 2010, when the common security perimeter is to be set up? It's a matter of grave concern that a Conservative party candidate does not know about the continental security-amalgamation agreement that's already in the works, or the implications of this for public security and safety. If Mr. Harper does have knowledge of it or plans for what he's going to negotiate, he hasn't taken the trouble to inform the candidates in the trenches about how he would handle these negotiations. Will he tell Canadians how far he will go toward opening the Canada-U.S. border for trade? Will this include trade in handguns and other concealable weapons, currently banned -- as well they should be? After the meeting ended, the moderator (from CFRA, a right wing talk-radio station) told this questioner that he thought the U.S.-Canada border should be strengthened! Perhaps CFRA and other open-line programs will discuss this issue in the months and years to come (less than five years now till implementation of the plan). It's up to the Canadian public to tell the government of the day how far we are willing to let them go in regard to opening our borders. It's no coincidence that the strongest influence on Harper and his "reformed" Conservatives is the ideologue Tom Flanagan, American-born professor of political science in Calgary. Noted for racism and misogyny, he has been heavily pushing the American right's ideas in Canada in his many publications. An article in the Walrus magazine describes his highly divisive stance and hostility to Quebec, natives, and women, citing his published works and his high-up connections in Washington. See: http://www.walrusmagazine.com/article.pl?sid=05/05/09/2119243 Excerpt: "Today, Flanagan's work remains an explosive topic, but few of his colleagues are willing to criticize him – at least on the record. After an introductory political-science textbook he co-authored was dropped from Ontario's approved list of high-school texts because of its "racial, religious, and sex bias" against women and Jews, he became active in the Society for Academic Freedom and Scholarship, an aggressive lobby of professors fighting political correctness, on whose board he now sits. "Certainly, by last June there was no lack of opinion that Flanagan's own writings were controversial, if not right off the mainstream map. As the Conservatives' campaign director, he seemed perfect fodder for the sort of Liberal attack ads already depicting Stephen Harper as a scary extremist with a hidden agenda. The mystery is why Paul Martin's admen didn't jump on that tailor-made target." That article references the 2004 election. So now it's a puzzle that even though in this election the Liberals did launch attack ads based on verifiable information, they have been withdrawn. Even turncoat Liberals were found to apologize for ads that are based on withheld facts. Why are these facts being withheld? It's more than ironic that Harper's "stand up for Canada" campaign is being directed from behind the scenes by an American intellectual whose ideas, if carried out, will split up and probably terminate this unique country. If you treasure Canada as the best place on earth to live, you cannot vote for a Harper candidate. Termagant [Proofreader's note: this article was edited for spelling and typos on January 22, 2006]

Note: http://www.atsnn.com/st... http://www.walrusmagazi...

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  1. Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:50 pm
    Banning hand guns does not make a community safer. Just ask Detroit and New York.

    Banning guns only prevents lawful citizens from being armed. The criminals will always be able to get guns, so all banning them will do is make people more vulnerable to the criminals who are armed. If you want to combat gun violence, you have to deal with the Issue of inner city gangs and drugs. If you were to take a European drug enforcement model, gang violence and drug related crime would drop to almost nothing.

    Banning Handguns is not a solution by any means.
    The fact is being capable of defending yourself is the only guarantee on security that you have. The Police will not guarantee your safety or security.

    The fact is that Canada does not need to ban hand guns, and the system we had in place in the 90's was effective. If we had a justice system that criminals were actually afraid of appropriate policing and border protection levels, and rational compassionate drug laws we would have a chance of actually stopping the violence.

    If guns are not nescassary for protection, then why do the Police and Millitary carry them?

    If you are a pacifist, and don't want to own a gun, that is your right. Don't buy a gun. But it does not give you the right to take away another persons ability to adequately defend themself against deadly force. In a government that lets convicted rapists out of jail, who are not responding to rehabilitation at all, wants to take away our ability to defend ourselves from these criminals, who will not care if guns are banned?
    What a joke.

    Anyone who gives up Liberty for Security will eventually lose both. You have more to fear from the government than you do from your neighbors, so don't try to take their guns away just because you are paranoid. Even the Police are not supportive of banning Handguns. That should tell you something.

  2. by gorian
    Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:13 pm
    That is absurd. When one community in a nation awash with guns tries to stand up against the insanity that is handguns (what are they good for? killing humans. nothing else) of course they are going to fail. Which is precisely why Canada as a whole needs to stand up and shut down guns in every corner and every community across the board. We need to stop guns flowing over our border. We need to stop gun parts mailed over our border. We need to tighten controls over people who think it is cool to collect weapons of death: these people are targeted for theft and are indirectly responsible for a huge number of the guns on our streets. Collect stamps instead people.

    Giving up on guns is not giving up a liberty -- it is giving up on fear and violence in our communities. It is standing up to the terrible affect a piece of equipment has had on our communities. Quite frankly, a handgun places too much power in the hands of an individual. It gives them the power to take life away when they see fit (which is the only purpose of the handgun). Our police are given that power to tackle all the terrible people out there with handguns. It is sad and unfortunate, but until we can get all of the guns out of our communities the police must have them.

    Now, New York's an interesting case-study in this. Obviously there is an insane amount of weaponry in that city. A recent Macleans article interviewed the former police chief during the Guilliano years. The interviewer was downright offensive, fawning over him, asking him questions like "How can we get you to come to Toronto?" It was pretty disgusting. Disgusting because his whole line was massive military-like attack on crime using racial profiling. Handgun crime? Go after the Jamaicans. Gambling crime? Go after the Asians. It was pretty sick. Anywise, during this period of advanced racism in New York city gun murders went from 2200 to 1000 per year. Yes those numbers are correct (Canada had something like 550 last year). (Don't ask me why Macleans thinks this is relevant for Toronto which witnessed 78 murders last year. New York could have 1000 or 1078 and not notice the difference).

    Those years of declining crime, for which the police officer credits racism, coincided with their ban on the handgun. Don't you think that might be a factor too? It was never discussed. They had an agenda. We should have an agenda too. We should get these weapons out of our cities.

    G

  3. Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:27 pm
    Two different cultures trying to blend through an open gate. One approving of armed citizens and one not. Yet the infrastructure is to accomodate both points of veiw. It's not working. Canada dosen't believe their citizens need to be armed and the Americans believe they have to be. Neither culture has 100% suport and consequently there is continued banter as to who is right. The issue will never be resolved untill the supporters of either argument, move to the country of choice and the gate closed behind them. You are either against arms or insupport. No law will change that.

  4. Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:05 pm
    That is where you are wrong. Claiming that dis-approving of armed citizens is a Canadian value is just plain wrong for starters. Our defining moment as a nation, helping us achieve our autonomy was WW1. Taking guns away from law abiding peaceful citizens does not make you safer. Not in the least. This issue is by no means settled and infact you would be suprised how many sane rational law abiding gun owners are in your community. Just look at what happend to hand gun sales when PM proposed his ban.

    Gun control in the name of public safety has always been the tool of the Tyrant. Hitler, Stalin and Mao all banned civillian ownership of firearms. It wasn't long after that the mass killings began. Only a corrupt government fears armed citizens. Taking guns away from sane responsible people is not going to make you safer.

    The number of guns in a community does not equate the amount of violence. There are more guns per capita in rural areas of Canada, and less violence. Guns are not the cause of violence, there are merely a tool. The people you are going to take guns away from with this sort of legislation, are the people who use them lawfully.
    Someone who uses a firearm in a criminal way is not gong to care if guns a illegal or not. All you are doing is demonizing people who have the wisdom to be prepared to defend themselves. If you don't want to own a gun, don't buy one, but you have no right to try and take away my right to effectively defend myself.

    What are you going to do when one of these un-rehabilitated convicted rapists released onto the streets is breaking into your house to rape your wife or daughter? Call the police and hope they arrive in time? Have a nice chat with him about why violence is bad?

  5. Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:12 pm
    PS voting down a perfectly reasonalbe post just because you dont agree with the sad reality of it is pretty low.

    Once again, the Police are not for banning guns, because they KNOW it won't make the community safer. This is purely the territory of corrupt politicians. Are you really going to trust them to look out for you?

  6. Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:18 pm
    In 90% of Police call outs they arrive after the crime has taken place, to take witness statements and so on. Police are not a Pro-active security force in our country, they are a responsive force. They spend more time doing paper work then they do actually protecting us from criminals.

    The civillian prepared to defend him/herself ia a proactive force in society. A criminal wants to prey on the weak and defenceless. A criminal will not try to rob or assault someone who they know is armed, because they want to go after a soft target.

  7. Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:24 pm
    Also, a car places even more power in the hands of an individual(check the physicis), which can be used to kill other people, and infact more people die from Car accidents then from gun violence. Why don't be ban cars to make ourselves safer?

    Violence is a human behavior. Reducing the tools of violence does not reduce violence, it merely reduces the number of options one has in terms of tools. If a criminal has a gun, it takes a citizen with a gun to stop him, police or otherwise. The government cannot create a safe happy utiopia for eveyone to live in with no violence. Thats a fairy tale.

  8. Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:59 pm
    "Now, New York's an interesting case-study in this. Obviously there is an insane amount of weaponry in that city. A recent Macleans article interviewed the former police chief during the Guilliano years."<br />
    <br />
    While I agree with some of what you say, and some of what A.Beaver says, here you are wrong.<br />
    <br />
    Everone attributes the falling crime rate of the mid 90's to today, after the dramatically rising crime of the late 80's and early 90's, to 'gun control' and 'innovative policing' and 'strengthening economy' and they are all wrong. Firstly, New York's crime rate was on a decline from 1989 or so, and in 1993 it was falling fast. Before Gulliani was elected.<br />
    <br />
    A renowned economist found the answer for the decline in crime rates in the early 90's (which continue today). His name is Stephen Leavitt, and he linked through hard evidence, the drop in crime rate to a Texas woman named, IIRC, Norma McCrae. And became hugely unpopular because of it, because his findings were for a very unpoular subject.<br />
    <br />
    He saw the crime rate for 15-19 year olds in the late 80's and early 90's went through the roof. Mostly poor, black males living in projects, selling crack and jacking cars. But suddenly, around 1995, the rate dropped, and continued dropping well into the 2000's. <br />
    <br />
    Why? Well, in the late 70's there was a case before the US Supreme Court; Roe Vs Wade. The Texas drug addicted single mother, Norma McCrae wanted the right to do with her body what she wanted. She won, as 'Jane Roe'. Live births went from 4 for every abortion, to 2.25 per abortion.<br />
    <br />
    So now, poor black mothers in the projects had access to cheap, safe abortions. So when those young black males who would have been coming of age in the mid 90's, didn't fall into a life of neglect and crime because they were never born.<br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/06/01/DI2005060101640.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2005/06/01/DI2005060101640.html</a><br />
    <br />
    There was a corresponding earlier drop in states such as Alaska and New York, who had already legalized abortion a few years before Roe vs Wade. There is also an identical trend in Austrailia and Canada after they legalized abortion.<br />
    <br />
    The murder rate in all of Ontairo last year was 1.51 per 100,000 people. In Alberta, it was 2.69, and the Yukon was 22.43. Only Ontarians are screaming 'Ban Guns!!!' and everyone in the West is looking and saying 'you're falling for another election ploy!!'<br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/legal12b.htm">http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/legal12b.htm</a><br />
    <a href="http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/legal04a.htm">http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/legal04a.htm</a><br />
    <br />
    "Those years of declining crime, for which the police officer credits racism, coincided with their ban on the handgun. Don't you think that might be a factor too?"<br />
    <br />
    NO! When someone tells you that 'gun control' will cure Toronto's problems, the facts just don't show that.<br />
    <br />
    "We need to tighten controls over people who think it is cool to collect weapons of death: these people are targeted for theft and are indirectly responsible for a huge number of the guns on our streets."<br />
    <br />
    No, we need some sort of verification that collectors store guns in a way that they can't be stolen. <br />
    <br />
    Swimming pools result in the deaths of people, 1 for every 11,000 pools. Children 'playing' with guns results in 1 death for every 1.6 million guns. (Both rare in Canada, the stats are from the states) Why isn't anyone screaming for the banning of in ground pools?<br />
    <br />
    Why? Because a gunshot is a traumatic event; swimming pools don't leave gaping holes in children. But if people were smarter rather than more passionate, they'd see that putting fences around pools would save more lives than banning guns. Or manditory flu shots. Or cleaning your kitchen with an antibacterial soap. Or proper car seats and seatblets. And all would be cheaper too.<br />
    <br />
    If you want to stop gun deaths, go to the source - illegal imports across the border. It may have other unseen positive benefits as well.<br />
    <p>---<br>"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill<br />



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