Trudeau's Vision

Yes, but this doesn't take into account the MEDIAN salary, which has gone down in real terms. Averages are a useless way to measure prosperity, because it is skewed by the millionaires who don't get mentioned in these studies.

The Liberals also destroyed our cultural institutions.

<br><br> To quote a few average income figures doesn't say much unless it can be shown that there was no change in the distribution of income. <br><br> You know the joke (incorporating a truth about statistics), Bill Gates gets together with ten homeless men in a shelter and all of a sudden they are -on average- all billionaires. <br><br> There is some evidence that the distribution of income did in fact change. <br><br> Before Mulroney's tax reforms there were five (or was it six?) federal income tax brackets. After the reforms there were three. The top had a substantially lower rate than before, the middle a slightly different rate and the bottom a substantially higher rate. <br><br> (Mulroney wasn't alone. His neo-con buddies Ronny and Maggie did the same thing to their nations.) <br><br> Add to this the GST, a highly regressive tax, and the whole picture gets compounded. <br><br> <b>The rich did get richer in the last two or three decades, the middle class treaded water and the bottom got hit.</b> <br><br> P.S. <br><br> "Now I feel we should allow the Liberals to continue to fulfill Pierre Elliott Trudeau's vision of Canada as "a just society." <br><br> Why do I always think of the helicopters circling over my head and the soldiers being posted everywhere when I hear the term "Trudeau's 'just society'"? <br><br> He suspended the civil liberties of the whole contry in response to the actions of a couple of dozen FLQistes. He knew this full well but he was out 'to teach Quebec nationalists a lesson'.<b>Not one single person rounded up during the War Measures Act was convicted.</b> All the arrests and/or convictions happened due to routine police work. <br><br> BTW Under Trudeau the definition of who is unemployed was changed several times: Each time the number of unemployed went up and the number of people entitled to UIC went down. <br><br> Only somebody bandoozled by Plato's Republic could call this a 'just society'

Atleast Trudeau had the backbone to deal with terrorism DIRECTLY when it came in our own backyard. Chretien in true sellout fashion signed a treaty with America letting their military into Canada 'in case of terrorist attack.' Aside from that, Trudeau`s administration was the most socially progressive in Canadian history. It was more left of centre than today`s NDP. And many of the terrorist instigators were deported, given that they came originally from France or Morocco. As for the average wage slight of hand trick, it`s bovine defecation. The rich got MUCH richer, the upper middle class treaded water, and the lower middle class, along with the poor, got poorer from 1984- now. Trudeau`s vision was one of a just society. Today`s liberals resemble nothing from the Trudeau era, though they like to falsely live off Trudeau`s legacy!

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Dave Ruston

Dave, "bovine defecation" ??

Marvelous !!!

I am really impressed !

Hats off to Dave.


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"Arrogance in Politics is unacceptable"
Jim Callaghan
Minden, Ontario
705-286-1860
www.misterc.ca

Dave <br><br> "And many of the terrorist instigators were deported, given that they came originally from France or Morocco" <br><br> You have no idea what you're talking about, have you? <br><br> C'etaient des quebecois de pure laine. Not a single person from Marocco or France! <br><br> And as to the 'socially progressive nature' of Trudeau, let me tell you it got progressively worse. <br><br> I know because I lived through it. <br><br> Ever wonder why the deficit got so high? Mulroney inherited it and the Liberals in their true chamaelion fashion just stuck it to the little guy.

Trudeau really had no political principles. He was an opportunist who set his sails according to the direction from which the wind blew. <br><br> Shortly before joining the Liberal Party he said 'if it's time for cataclysms, let it be now. Vote for the NDP'. <br><br> His idea of a 'just socitey' didn't stop him from imprisoning people simple because they were union executives or members of the Montreal civic 'opposition' of FRAP. <br><br> And as I said nobody rounded up under the special provisions of the War Measures Act got convicted of anything. <br><br> To the shame of our Parliament there was only one MP, a member of the NDP, who voted against the War Measures Act. <br><br> I think it was Stanley Knowles

From some of the research I`ve done, the main body of 'separatists' were from France and Morocco. Why? Because France, especially DeGaulle, was incensed at the fact that Canada would not sell uranium to France for their nuclear weapons program! As for Trudeau, I start with his bold stand as justice minister in 67, where he decriminalized homosexuality, stating, " The government has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." He also strengthened women`s rights by making divorce and abortion easier. As PM he gave francophones greater access to their government. And to expand from that, multiculturalism was a great way to lessen xenophobia and make Canada country to admire. Then he created Petro-Canada, the NEP and the fIRA to give Canadians greater control over it`s own resources and industries. And after the FLQ crisis he oversaw the mode in which Quebeckers could peacefully and democratically voice their discontent with the Parti-Quebecois and the 1980 referendum as opposed to a few idiots blowing up things and making matters worse. He passed the Canada Health Act, and also forged agreements allowing generic Canadian drug companies to manufacture cheaper drugs to keep health costs down. And as far as creating a Charter of Rights and Freedoms, nobody else could have done it under the same climate. And Trudeau didn`t get Canada into debt, it was the US war in Vietnam, whereby Nixon scrapped the Bretton-Woods agreement, which separated the value of the US dollar from the gold standard, forcing many other countries, especially Canada and Britain, to pick up a large chunk of the US war debt! Oh, yeah, in the 70`s and 80`s Trudeau expanded the child tax credit, the UI system, and a 'guaranteed income supplement' for the elderly. I could go on and on. And sure, Trudeau made some errors. But I still say that his administration was the most socially progressive in Canadian history. Oh- transfer payments too! He was swimming against the tide of neo-conservatism, and yet he had the backbone to do all he did!

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Dave Ruston

Jeepers Dave, you are a talking history book, thanks, much of what you write I do remember, but I also appreciate the refresher...I didn't really like Trudeau much, mostly I suppose because he was so coarse and we weren't used to that kind of in your face, 'who gives a poop if they don't like it' attitude. We could only dream of a politician that committed to Canada, today!

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If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?

Dave <br><br> "From some of the research I`ve done, the main body of 'separatists' were from France and Morocco." <br><br> You must have done this reserach on some conspiracy site on the web. Don't believe everything you see in print. <br><br> I repeat: <br><br> <b> Not a single FLQiste was from outside Canada. Give me one single name to back up your assertion then I'll retract my statement with apologies.</b> <br><br> I said Trudeau was an opportunist and did not deny that he's implemented some progressive legislation. Whether this includes your entire list is debatable. Why is the founding of Petro-Can, for instance, 'progressive'? They sold the gas at market prices and Trudeau gave the oil companies such high subsidies that the drilling in the Beaufort was basically paid for with public money, with the profits of course reserved for the corporations. <br><br> Read <b>With Other Peoples' Money</b> about Dome Pete for instance. <br><br> <b>One contention of yours -as I pointed out in my original answer to your post- is definitely wrong</b> <br><br> He reduced the number of people eligible for UIC several times pushing them onto welfare. (Which does not deny that there were also expansions like benefits for pregnant women. This is politics: You give a little here and take some there.) <br><br> And please tell me how progressive it is to suspend the civil liberties from coast to coast in response to the actions of a couple of dozen kidnappers and a murderer? It has been shown afterwards that Trudeau was fully aware of the number of people involved. <br><br>

... and with respect to native rights Trudeau used to maintain that there were none and that they should be assimilated by abolishing the Indian Act. <br><br> It took a Supreme Court judgment to change his mind. And what did he achieve about remeding some of the injustices suffered by natives: NOTHING!

If he was so great then why is he hated so much?

For the same reason that other great leaders were hated -- he dared to disrupt the status quo. He dared to presume that Canada was a real country, and he dared to act on that belief. Of course the little Canadian colonials detested him -- he demanded a real country! The only people who really "hate" him are various Albertans who don't understand what he gave to them.

Petro-Canada was progressive. Imagine a country like Canada having some control over their own resources. We've lost that now, and it will be very difficult and expensive to get it back. Some Albertans couldn't be happier -- but I keep reading the same story over and over again of yet another major Canadian oil company bought out. Houston was the centre before Trudeau, and it looks like it will be again now that his vision for Canada has been shattered.

G

"It took a Supreme Court judgment to change his mind. And what did he achieve about remeding some of the injustices suffered by natives: NOTHING!"

I wonder -- could the same thing not be said of every priminister of Canada or president of America? I'm not trying to excuse him on this point in any way, but has there ever been ONE who has remedied "some of the injustices suffered by natives"? Who ended the residential schools -- I guess that might be one?

G

>>If he was so great then why is he hated so much?<<

When trudeau was in office, I couldn't stand him. I despised his arrogance and his handling of the economy. I wasn't overly thrilled about the war measures act either, and the charisma that kept getting him elected was a thorn in my side.

looking back though, I have nothing but admiration for the man. It may simply be the sort of leaders we have elected since he left office, but he stands an order of magnitude taller than any of them. I miss the guy. Even when I hated him, I had to concede that he was one of the greatest statesmen on the international stage and truly sincere in his belief in a strong, sovereign Canada. We need another leader of the same calibre now.