The Insular America

There we have it, an independent conclusion from someone not Canadian who comes to the same conclusion as we do. I guess the tired argument that Canadians' criticism of this element of Americans' character should die with concurrent opinions of those from other nations but I doubt it for as the article stated "Many Americans are in a mental bunker. Any information that tries to penetrate that bunker is rejected as enemy intellectual action."

The problem is they don't know it, and if we or anyone else tries to tell them, they think we are insulting them. The media and environment has created the setting, if you never enter outside the tent, you are unlikely to see the trees beyond. I think the entire system was designed that way though, how else could they get the people behind them to save the world, if they did not believe that they were the greatest and heros, and all the propaganda. I mean if you read any history or just some of the trolls on vive, it was the U.S. that saved us from Hitler, they have produced all the world's food, heck McD's had to go to Russia to save them from starvation! On and on, it goes.

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If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?

<blockquote>The problem is they don't know it, and if we or anyone else tries to tell them, they think we are insulting them.</blockquote> A lot of people don't react well to unsolicited opinions or advice concerning their behaviour, particularly when the person offering the same seems to be living in a glass house themselves.<BR><BR> I found this article interesting and am glad it was submitted.<BR><BR> However, in general I think we spend way too much time discussing the U.S. Without minimizing what many of us may view as questionable actions by their government(s) through the years, endlessly discussing every perceived U.S. fault gets us no further in dealing with problems we need to deal with in Canada.<BR><BR> Given the sometimes excessive amount of U.S. oriented news that appears and the nature of some of the comments that follow, Vive can sometimes come across more as a 'bash the U.S.' site than a Canadian pro-sovereignty 'let's do what we need to do to fix Canada' site.<BR><BR> <p>---<br>"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).<br />

Lets do what each of us thinks we should do. The US needs to be criticised for every foul criminal move it makes. There are a lot of people in the US who don't like what is happening and they feel the same way about it that we do. Not all US citizens are of "the bunker mentality". Jeb Bush said recently that there were a million people in the US who were concerned about the truth and that they didn't matter at all because they had no money. I think he underestimated the number of people who care about the truth in the US and I think we have a large percentage of canadians that care about the truth. The problem is communicating with each other and planning how to get rid of the rot that runs our governments and corporations.

I agree that people should do what conscience dictates.<br><br> But, how many times does one need to reiterate the obvious.<br><br> If, for example, an entity has performed a 'criminal' activity, the first such action is enough to warrant an action against them. That's all those whose actions are required to bring the criminal to bay need to know. <br><br> If the entity performs other criminal actions after the first, it isn't absolutely necessary that those tasked with bringing the criminal to justice be apprised of each and every one. The only tally needs to be performed when the criminal is brought before the court to answer for their actions.<br><br> If those tasked to capture the criminal end up spending most of their time reading report after report as to the criminal's most recent activities, it simply detracts from the time available to them to focus on activities to bring the criminal to justice.<br><br> Back in the late 60s/early 70s, the Canadian sovereignty movement was based on maintaining Canada's economic and cultural sovereignty. It should be that today. Maintaining Canada's sovereignty and battling U.S. imperialism are not one and the same. In the former the focus is on Canada, in the latter on the U.S. There is a distinct difference.<br><br> There are a number of U.S. sites devoted to activities related to any alleged criminal activities by the U.S. government and/or what's wrong with the U.S. today. There's a ton of them <a href="http://www.linkcrusader.com/">right here</a>.<br><br> Vive doesn't need to be fulfilling this function. I'd suggest though that if the focus of Vive is intended to be on fighting U.S. imperialism and influence worldwide, it should probably be renamed 'Canadians against U.S. imperialism' so as not to confuse anyone. <br><br> If the focus is on regaining and maintaining Canadian sovereignty, my opinion is that Vive needs to be more focussed on Canada and what needs improving here. If Canada had focussed on this years ago, many of our present concerns vis-a-vis the U.S. may have been resolved and we could have concentrated on being an example that perhaps might prove beneficial to others.<br><br> As things stand now, Canadians are not really in a position to be lecturing anyone. I think we need to straighten up our own backyard before commenting on the backyards of others.<br><br> And, I wish I could say I was convinced we'd be doing anything different than the U.S. if we had the same population and army however, from what I've seen of Canada lately, and our association in stuff like Haiti, etc., I really wonder.<br><br> As other, non-anon, posters have mentioned, we need to be taking an honest look at ourselves before judging others. Living in some convenient fantasy world as to what Canada is and judging the actions of others from within that fantasy world isn't doing us or anyone else any good.<br><br> My opinion is that Vive focus needs to be on generating and supporting actions focussed on the creation of a Canada that most Canadians would want and is as independent of foreign economic and cultural influence as possible. <br><br> Finding fault with the U.S. or any other nation doesn't get us any closer to that goal. It's just always easier to see where someone else is going wrong than to do something right yourself. <p>---<br>"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).<br />

I am the last person you could accuse of defending Canada's deficiencies. You've fallen into the trap of the insulars Calumny. In my opinion the anons I am addressing with this article are the insular people that are finding it news that we're not happy with the Americanization of Canada. I've been trying to tell anyone that would listen to me this same thing for years, (Canadians, not USAmericans). I have yet to go to some USAmerican site and spout my feelings and observations at them. Just because we are an English speaking site is reason enough for us to be attacked by USAmerican anons. How many USAmericans are going to other language sites and finding that this is not an exclusive problem to Canada/US relations.?

For me, Canadian sovereignty has so much to do with detangling ourselves from what has already been attatched to USAmerican tenticles so if we happen to sound anti-American or overly obsessed with the "American" way I think that is a biproduct of the overly cloying relationship we have fostered. The most important things to me are that all citizens be given the benefits of their labours and the selling of their resources; I don't care what country you live in. And for me to even start making a stand for that I immediatley bump into....guess what? The Americanization of the world. The UN. The WTO. The IMF. NATO. NORAD. NAFTA. The World Bank. I may have missed a few 100 others. It's damn hard not to talk about Canadian soveriegnty in my opinion without talking about the USA! If I'm wrong about that then maybe I am coming to the wrong place.

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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche

I indicated that I appreciated this particular article.

I'd suggest you re-read my comments because I don't think you got the point.

I visit U.S., and other sites, that don't accord to my world view because I like to get views other than my own (as mine aren't always accurate.). I don't generally offer comments on these sites because I know my views aren't likely to be welcome and at any rate aren't going to change the opinions of those who visit the site. However, if everyone on the web was like me, you wouldn't have trolls.

Most U.S. anons, if in fact they are U.S. anons, probably didn't just 'happen' on Vive. They're here for a reason and that reason isn't going to change because of this article.

There is absolutely no reason why we need to be explaining our views to anons, whether U.S., Canadian or other. I'm not here to justify my thoughts to people who think differently, nor do I feel any need to do so.

Don't get me wrong here though, I well understand the whole U.S. concern thing.

However, yapping about the various failings we perceive with the U.S. or any other nation isn't going to change anything in Canada. All it does is detract from time we could better spend doing something useful for our own nation.

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"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).

Good post 4Canada. And, good point Calumny. Just a suggestion, isn't Vive big enough for action/discussion in both directions. I see both your views as different branches on the road that leads in the same direction. Maybe there is room enough for both.

Calumny,

I think you made two points the "I liked the article" and the "BUT" point.

I don't believe we would need this site at all if the US was not such a huge part of our sovereignty problems. Sure we have horrible electoral system, elect horrible politicians yet I think those two things are worse and work less and less for us as we become more Americanized.

You being the proffesor type could maybe set up a Geography post for the insular ones that visit Vive. I think that may be a very helpful thing for Canada. Just a suggestion.8*}

DL, you're right. I do think there is room for both, infact there HAS to be for anything to change.

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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche