Air Canada Facing More Cuts To Pensions

WestJet is not unionized IIRC. They do it from the old 'I like my job because the company treats me well and pays well' school of work.<p> Don't get me started on how Air Canada could go from a company that was built with tax dollars and making money to in the toilet in record time. Let them die. Others will pick up the slack. (WestJet).<p> <p>---<br>"History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme" Mark Twain <br />"The greatest price of not participating in politics is being governed by your inferiors." Plato

OK, Doc. I gotchya !!

You once said to Dave that you didn\'t believe that unions drive wages higher even if you do not belong to a union.

Which is it ? If WestJet is non-unionized, and they get good wages, why do they get good wages ?? Can it possibly be that they want the union to stay away ??

Virgin Airlines wants to come to the US to compete with the US airlines, because they are not unionized.

What we are seeing is a fight against organized labour, and even though I don\'t agree with some things they do, at least they have driven wages and beneits up.

Is that not a good thing in our society ??????

How would your wages look in the 19th century ?

I believe in fairness. That\'s all.



---
"Arrogance in Politics is unacceptable"
Jim Callaghan
Minden, Ontario
705-286-1860
www.misterc.ca

I work with Air Canada employees and they are NOT going to take this laying down.

Those are their pensions and they should not ever be touched. They tried this last year as part of the bankruptcy proceedings. Pensions should never be part of payments made to creditors. That money belongs to the employees not the company.

Air Canada could still turn things around but yes - others will and are already picking up where they have left off.

Thing is most of those new airlines pay little over minimum wage. That might be fine in small cities but it barely covers the cost of living in places like Vancouver and Toronto. So they too need to stay in tune or they too will face a union drive - and rightly so for WestJet being that they have turned a profit every quarter for years now.

Roy

\"Thing is most of those new airlines pay little over minimum wage. That might be fine in small cities but it barely covers the cost of living in places like Vancouver and Toronto.\"

I wouldn\'t go that far. Living in small cities is expensive too. The reason rent is so much cheaper in small cities is because there aren\'t any proper jobs. People in their 20\'s looking for work get offered minimum wage for 20 hours per week at jobs that require non-regular availability. So that pretty much makes it impossible to hold down more than one of those jobs at a time. THAT is an attack on worker benefits.

If the urban centres weren\'t sucking the lifeblood out of our resource-rich smaller communities without giving a cent of the profit back then this wouldn\'t be the case. Working in a resource-based community used to be highly profitable, which kinda offsets the fact that the same facilities weren\'t necessarily provided. But now there aren\'t any services OR lucrative jobs. Props to centralization, eh? Now instead of the loggers who tend to have career-ending back injuries in their 40\'s making big bucks, the CEO\'s in their big leather chairs make ALL the profit.

Bah.. sorry for the bitter post.

---


Kory Yamashita

"What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes

I think you misread me Jim. I replied to Dave that Union wages <i>in my company</i> have caused all non union employees wages to stagnate.<p> And, yes, I think WesJet must be a good place to work, and they treat their employees well in order to curb talk of unionization.<p> My views on Unions haven't changed - if you don't like your job, *quit*<p> <p>---<br>"History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme" Mark Twain <br />"The greatest price of not participating in politics is being governed by your inferiors." Plato

Just a small addition to the discussion--my father-in-laws works for Westjest and in addition to offering employees shares a few years back (and buying additional shares for each share purchased as part of the deal) which have since become quite profitable for a lot of people, the airline profit-shares, meaning employees get a nice extra cheque fairly regularly. So the company does have some forward-thinking corporate practices, even sans union.

Whether that makes it OK not to have one or not is another question...

Totally agree, Kory. And let\'s not forget big box stores like Walmart that like to come into a small community, severely drop prices and thereby outcompete local businesses, hire back the now out-of-work locals for miniumum wages and PT hours, and then ship the profits off to corporate headquarters in some city somewhere (often in the States) leaving the community without the money. Grrr....

For the early WestJet employees the do get handsome profit sharing cheques, for new employees on part time hours - some get as little as $60 for a years work.

They do (WestJet) treat their employees VERY well and everyone is treated equally and as part of a family. WestJet employees are a pleasure to work with and their great attitude shows in their airlines yearly profits.

But... get them away from the airport and some in Vancouver for instance are having a heck of a time making ends meet. Can not neccessarily blame the airline for that but in urban centres where costs of living are traditionally higher they need to find some way to make sure their employees are not being left behind. (going into debt to stay afloat)

roy

Kory\'s wrong about city\'s sucking the life out of rural towns. It\'s the cities that PAY for your roads. Where do you think the bulk of the tax revenue comes from, Moose Jaw? The city of Toronto alone pays 9 billion more in taxes than it gets back.

And no, we don\'t get a choice about the pesticides that the rural idiot farmers put on our foods.

Kory, get real. Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver have been subsidizing the un-profitable small towns of Canada for a long time. From Newfoundland, so they can catch 5 fish a year for a living, to northern BC, so they can plunder our natural heritage to make a quick buck.

Toronto itself pays 9 billion more in taxes than it gets back in services, funding for necessary infrastructure, which serves more people in a year than live in the European Union, when counting number of rides on the T.T.C. alone. You do know what TTC stands for, don\'t you Kory?

We may not have politicians who have helped create jobs, reducing dependency on primary products, but to quote Dr. Caleb: \"If you don\'t like your job, move.\"

Here my add-on: \"If you don\'t like living in a small town, move.\" Big cities are where 80% of our population lives, and they have remarkably little control over what the famers do to their food, to what the resource exploiters do to their air and water.

If anything, there\'s a rural bias--not a city bias.

Big cities would wither and die without the small communities. Where do you think wheat for your bread comes from? You think you can go to the Toronto waterfront and cows for your burgers magically appear?<p> In order to make farm products, you need space. Moose Jaw may have few people, but the number of cows in Saskatchewan probabally outnumbers people in Toronto.<p> And I like you paraphrasing me (: Every time I wake up and dread going to work, and consider calling in sick - I start looking for a new job. If you don't like what you're doing, find something else. You can't do a good job and be proud of yourself if you hate your job or working environment. Perhaps that's why Canadians aren't as productive as workers in other countries. Just my philophsy. YMMV.<p> <p>---<br>"History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme" Mark Twain <br />"The greatest price of not participating in politics is being governed by your inferiors." Plato

Air Canada could have remained a profitable company if it was ran properly. But in this day and age of American style privatization, Canadian institutions and companies like Air Canada, and our HEALTH CARE SYSTEM are being trashed on PURPOSE! This provides the neo-cons an excuse to come out and say,\" See, Private ownership can do it better than the government.\" They did the same thing with Ontario Hydro. Don`t invest in new power plants or upgrading, but the people high up in management loot the public system! That`s what Air Canada is doing too! Doesn`t Milton keep giving himself big FAT 7 figure bonuses while he tells the workers that they must take pay cuts, benefit cuts, and pension cuts? BC hydro, the same thing! It turns a hefty profit, but Campbell and his band of crooks are privatizing! Then the private sector charges prices that most of us can`t afford! Nope, this is all being done on purpose!!! Same thing with Stelco in Hamilton. Not a crown corporation, but while Stelco tells it`s employees that their pensions will be cut, they gave last year`s outgoing CEO a 6 figure lump sum pension payoff- er, out. Corporate fascist American lackey criminals are looting Canada for all it`s worth, and are aiding and abetting in the transformation of Canada into a third world US resource hinterland! And if you`re not an employee of the Auto sector, expect Buzz Hargrove to sell you out! Bob White would have fought vigorously against this!

---
Dave Ruston

My point was that MONETARILY, small towns are subsidized by big cities. The area north of Toronto has the best farmland in the country, and I\'ve voiced concerns over urban sprawl, so I\'m not sure what the argument is about. I simply find it hilarious that small-town people complain about big cities, even though smaller communities are over-represented in parliament already, with WAY to much influence.

As for Canada\'s workers not being as \"Productive\" as those from other countries, I\'m not sure what you mean. We work longer than most, so maybe we\'re tired-out, but we work hard. I think it\'s politics that is to blame. We also produce the highest-quality goods and services if we decide to.

I blame the Liberals, the hijacked conservatives, and the sappy NDP for our decreased morale. More crown corporations, as well as Canadian-owned private companies would fit nicely with a new money-system, and solve much of the problem. I think people want to feel like they\'re working towards a greater goal, whatever it is.

<i>My point was that MONETARILY, small towns are subsidized by big cities.</i><p> Well. . . isn't that the point of the redistribution of wealth? You could say the same thing about Quebec and the maritimes being subsidised by the rest of Canada.<p> <i>As for Canada's workers not being as "Productive" as those from other countries, I'm not sure what you mean.</i><p> Canadians don't produce as much as our American counterparts. There are many figures and studies to back this up. Yes, we produce some great high quality stuff, but not as much of it as we could. The thing that has been saving us has been our low dollar. With the US$ looking like it's heading for the tank, we're going to have to pull up our socks and work faster to compete.<p> <i>I blame the Liberals, the hijacked conservatives, and the sappy NDP for our decreased morale.</i><p> I don't. I blame our increasing apathy and lack of national pride.<p><p>---<br>"History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme" Mark Twain <br />"The greatest price of not participating in politics is being governed by your inferiors." Plato