From Garth Turners blog Thur am <a href="http://www.garth.ca/weblog/">http://www.garth.ca/weblog/</a><br />
………………But as the hours unfolded, I certainly got a clearer picture of the events enveloping me, and the hands behind them. Even before the caucus room doors opened at noon to let the world know my fate, the House of Commons tech guys told me they were under orders from the party to unplug my office computers. I asked what was going on, and was told they had written orders earlier that day from the Conservative Whip to shut me down and reconfigure. <br />
Then I heard my seat in the House of Commons has been moved. Some media folks informed me that not only was I banished to the Liberal side, but that a new seating plan had been printed. And I marveled that something which normally takes days had apparently taken minutes.<br />
All of this, of course, seemed stranger still when I heard the news reported that the Conservative caucus, through a spontaneous grassroots action and without the knowledge of Stephen Harper, or the PMO, had taken a vote and unanimously kicked me out. The charge: compromising caucus confidentiality. The proof: None presented……………….<br />
A Turner suporter or not this says so much about the Harporite methodology that little more needs to be said! Any MP of any party that shows that he/she is not just a mirror image of the party line should be supported and congratulated.<br />
Regarding him joining the Greens, it would be great for them to get a voice (even a very independent one) in the house, however Garth had better be aware of his earlier comments re Emersons crossing the floor , he said:-<br />
"I am a democrat who believes everyone in the House of Commons, including the cabinet members who make up the government, should be elected. They should sit in Parliament as they were elected. If they decide to change parties, they should go and get re-elected.”<br />
<br />
<br />
<p>---<br>When you are up to your ass in alligators it is difficult to remember that the initial objective was to drain the swamp
This sounds like it could be a great opportunity for the Green Party.
I have never heard of this guy before and know next to nothing about him but it sounds like he'd be more suited to the Greens than the Cons anyway.
>>They should sit in Parliament as they were elected. If they decide to change parties, they should go and get re-elected.”
At least he has the integrity to conult his constituents before making a decision but here's another point... He is a federal politician and I've heard it said before that, all Canadians are in fact his constituents so, if he feels that he could strengthen the Greens and that that would be a good thing for Canada then he might be able to claim a moral obligation to change. He wouldn't be much different than Emerson in the eyes of some (certainly the Tories) but could still claim a higher moral ground.
What ever he decides, it will be an interesting story as it unfolds and his decision will tell us more about the man than any number pages read could.
Turner jumping to the Greens is very different from the Emerson situation. Emerson did it on his own free will and for his own personal benefit - at the expense of Canada. Turner would be doing it because he refused to be a brown-nosing yes man for a party which obviosuly does not believe in freedom of speech. These types of liberties obviously interfere with the secretive agenda of the ConMen.
First of all: "guess Garth would rather join the Christian Heritage Party than the Green Party."
I am sure they would appreciate his position in support of same sex marriage!
"however Garth had better be aware of his earlier comments re Emersons crossing the floor , he said:-
'I am a democrat who believes everyone in the House of Commons, including the cabinet members who make up the government, should be elected. They should sit in Parliament as they were elected. If they decide to change parties, they should go and get re-elected.'”
The question is whether the same thing applies to someone who has been thrown out of the caucus and hence has lost party status. Turner was re-nominated to stand for election by his constituency to run in the next election in September. He was faced with an attempt by the youth wing in his riding to have him turfed through the nomination process but the person who agreed to oppose him apparently could not generate enough support within the current membership and decided not to bother opposing him.
He will certainly not be the Conservative candidate in the next election in spite of the recent nomination by the local organization. His expulsion is not just a non-confidence motion in Turner but also in his constituency association. It also suggests that the central party itself had to use its dictatorial power to over ride the wishes of the constitutency since it could not achieve its purpose through the nomination process.
Like many issues this is not "black and white." In my opinion, he should ask the local president to call a meeting of his constituency association and let them determine his next step.
You are very right that it is entirely different but you can surely imagine the uproar made by his opponents. It's always about perception = media attention = back to brainwashing again.
You are over-reacting just a tad. The man was removed from his party for daring to have a spine and for challenging his own party and their actions. He has decided that he represents his constituents first and his party second - now imagine that!
The Greens emphasize free thinking members - Turner would fit right in. Not only for that of course but if you read his words on the environment - and his being connected to the Sierra Club make his move to the Greens a perfect fit.
Conservative voters name the Greens as their overwhelming second choice - even more say that than NDPers or Liberals. It's the conservative fiscal management policy of the Greens that attracts so many from their ranks.
This is great news for not only the Green Party but all of Canada and Canadians who care about the environment and the state of our nation. If he makes the move to the Greens, the Greens finally get their rightful place at the leader's debates. The Greens finally get heard during press scrums and Canadians in turn get another voice in the House. 4.5% of Canadians would now get their votes in action. Turner is outspoken about his views on the environment, and in fact, simply represents the true wishes of Canadians - the environment is more important than same-sex marriage and making war in the service of George Bush.
--- If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.
Yup, he's a politician alright. I just watched him on "The Hour" with George Stromboulopolous (I have no idea if that's even close) and when GS reminded him of what he said when Emerson crossed the floor and asked if he would seek re-election in a by-election, he quickly shot back "I didn't cross the floor".
Although to be fair, his next comment was that he would seek advice from his constituents and also rightly pointed out that not everyone in the riding voted conservative.
I wonder how many other Conservative Party members are looking at this situation and are thinking to themselves how degrading it is to be a member of a party that stomps out free thinking/speech. Think about it - these "elected officials" are not even permitted to participate in the democratic process.
As it stands, you can get any dead stiff to do the job they're currently doing. That is, if you consider sitting on your ass, filling a seat and keeping your mouth shut work.
I am surprised at the CBC (I don't know why, I should know better by now). On the National tonight, they weren't slamming the party for kicking him out, they were commenting on how much of a loudmouth he was and how "he will be trouble for whoever adopts him". The only remark I remember from the "At Issue Panel" that made sense was from Andrew Coyne and he said that the Parliament that ours is modelled after - Great Britain - still allows dissent from MP's.
Turner has not been one of my favourite politicans because I disagree with his views on a number of issues but that does not mean that I do not respect his right to express his views on the issues on which we disagree. In a consensus based party both of us would have a place and both would be able to present their viewpoints. In an ideological party there is no room for either of us as there was in the Progressive Conservative Party.
The new Conservative Party ideology requires putting the corporate sector before all other considerations because the corporate sector is at the top of their class based hierarchy. It was predictable that their environmental policy would be dictated by the corporate sector. As well, it is those corporations that control the most capital that take precedence over all other business interests as reflected in the softwood lumber agreement. Deference to hierarchy is the central principle of the new Conservative Party. This is a throwback to an idealized past, hence a regressive conservatism.
Why are we paying for over 100 people to sit in the Conservative seats in the HOC when clearly Harper is the only one that considers himself worth a salary. These others are obviously not capable of speaking, making policy and changing laws on their constituents behalf or capable of anything beyond being a "designated potted plant" for him? Why are we not just paying him his salary and actually setting up Yuccas with Rona's and others faces stuck to them? WE COULD SAVE A LOT OF MONEY!!! We need to start a campaign stating we don't want to pay salaries to people that are not allowed to act on the behalf of their constituents. Talk about throwing away tax dollars! Talk about a sponsorship scandal!!!
--- "And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Stumble It!
………………But as the hours unfolded, I certainly got a clearer picture of the events enveloping me, and the hands behind them. Even before the caucus room doors opened at noon to let the world know my fate, the House of Commons tech guys told me they were under orders from the party to unplug my office computers. I asked what was going on, and was told they had written orders earlier that day from the Conservative Whip to shut me down and reconfigure. <br />
Then I heard my seat in the House of Commons has been moved. Some media folks informed me that not only was I banished to the Liberal side, but that a new seating plan had been printed. And I marveled that something which normally takes days had apparently taken minutes.<br />
All of this, of course, seemed stranger still when I heard the news reported that the Conservative caucus, through a spontaneous grassroots action and without the knowledge of Stephen Harper, or the PMO, had taken a vote and unanimously kicked me out. The charge: compromising caucus confidentiality. The proof: None presented……………….<br />
A Turner suporter or not this says so much about the Harporite methodology that little more needs to be said! Any MP of any party that shows that he/she is not just a mirror image of the party line should be supported and congratulated.<br />
Regarding him joining the Greens, it would be great for them to get a voice (even a very independent one) in the house, however Garth had better be aware of his earlier comments re Emersons crossing the floor , he said:-<br />
"I am a democrat who believes everyone in the House of Commons, including the cabinet members who make up the government, should be elected. They should sit in Parliament as they were elected. If they decide to change parties, they should go and get re-elected.”<br />
<br />
<br />
<p>---<br>When you are up to your ass in alligators it is difficult to remember that the initial objective was to drain the swamp
I guess Garth would rather join the Christian Heritage Party than the Green Party.
I have never heard of this guy before and know next to nothing about him but it sounds like he'd be more suited to the Greens than the Cons anyway.
>>They should sit in Parliament as they were elected. If they decide to change parties, they should go and get re-elected.”
At least he has the integrity to conult his constituents before making a decision but here's another point... He is a federal politician and I've heard it said before that, all Canadians are in fact his constituents so, if he feels that he could strengthen the Greens and that that would be a good thing for Canada then he might be able to claim a moral obligation to change. He wouldn't be much different than Emerson in the eyes of some (certainly the Tories) but could still claim a higher moral ground.
What ever he decides, it will be an interesting story as it unfolds and his decision will tell us more about the man than any number pages read could.
---
Everybody got to deviate from the norm
First of all: "guess Garth would rather join the Christian Heritage Party than the Green Party."
I am sure they would appreciate his position in support of same sex marriage!
"however Garth had better be aware of his earlier comments re Emersons crossing the floor , he said:-
'I am a democrat who believes everyone in the House of Commons, including the cabinet members who make up the government, should be elected. They should sit in Parliament as they were elected. If they decide to change parties, they should go and get re-elected.'”
The question is whether the same thing applies to someone who has been thrown out of the caucus and hence has lost party status. Turner was re-nominated to stand for election by his constituency to run in the next election in September. He was faced with an attempt by the youth wing in his riding to have him turfed through the nomination process but the person who agreed to oppose him apparently could not generate enough support within the current membership and decided not to bother opposing him.
He will certainly not be the Conservative candidate in the next election in spite of the recent nomination by the local organization. His expulsion is not just a non-confidence motion in Turner but also in his constituency association. It also suggests that the central party itself had to use its dictatorial power to over ride the wishes of the constitutency since it could not achieve its purpose through the nomination process.
Like many issues this is not "black and white." In my opinion, he should ask the local president to call a meeting of his constituency association and let them determine his next step.
---
Everybody got to deviate from the norm
The Greens emphasize free thinking members - Turner would fit right in. Not only for that of course but if you read his words on the environment - and his being connected to the Sierra Club make his move to the Greens a perfect fit.
Conservative voters name the Greens as their overwhelming second choice - even more say that than NDPers or Liberals. It's the conservative fiscal management policy of the Greens that attracts so many from their ranks.
This is great news for not only the Green Party but all of Canada and Canadians who care about the environment and the state of our nation. If he makes the move to the Greens, the Greens finally get their rightful place at the leader's debates. The Greens finally get heard during press scrums and Canadians in turn get another voice in the House. 4.5% of Canadians would now get their votes in action. Turner is outspoken about his views on the environment, and in fact, simply represents the true wishes of Canadians - the environment is more important than same-sex marriage and making war in the service of George Bush.
---
If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.
How am I over-reacting. I think it's a good thing.
---
Everybody got to deviate from the norm
---
"We are all in this together somehow, some more than others somehow"
Although to be fair, his next comment was that he would seek advice from his constituents and also rightly pointed out that not everyone in the riding voted conservative.
---
Everybody got to deviate from the norm
As it stands, you can get any dead stiff to do the job they're currently doing. That is, if you consider sitting on your ass, filling a seat and keeping your mouth shut work.
---
Everybody got to deviate from the norm
The new Conservative Party ideology requires putting the corporate sector before all other considerations because the corporate sector is at the top of their class based hierarchy. It was predictable that their environmental policy would be dictated by the corporate sector. As well, it is those corporations that control the most capital that take precedence over all other business interests as reflected in the softwood lumber agreement. Deference to hierarchy is the central principle of the new Conservative Party. This is a throwback to an idealized past, hence a regressive conservatism.
---
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche