Is It "Anti-American" To Dissent?

Excellent article!

I have a hard time understanding and dealing with those that resort to using the cop-out term - \'anti\'. This is usually used when the argument on the table cannot be challenged. I cannot even count how many times I have heard someone resort to that as a retort during a debate.

Staying out of Iraq was NOT \'anti\' anything. It was a pro-Canadian choice and for that we should all be proud. For we have been proven to be more than right. Those that crawled on their hands and knees (read Harper) to the US claiming this or that need to start up their ovens and eat some crow!

Sheesh indeed!

Oh, wait a minute, being pro-fair trade – does that make one anti-free trade? To some that is probably anti-American as well.


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If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.

<i>"why do we keep hearing from certain Canadians that we screwed up?</i>"<p> Some people, such as myself, feel the war was unjustified, but we still should have stood by the Americans, Austrailians and the British.<p> If I were ever in the (hypothetical) situation where I were to, say, start a bar fight, I know my friends would be behind me. They might stop three or four guys from ganging up on me, they might make sure It's a one-on-one situation, but I know they would be there. If I won, they might kick the crap out of me later for putting them in that situation, but they would be there to back me up when I need them.<p> What we did was let our three biggest friends and allies go it alone. Not just the US, but Britan and Austrailia as well. We've destroyed our reputation abroad. Now the world has seen what Canada; their 'loyal' friend Canada, will do for them in a pinch.<p> It doesn't matter if the cause was unjust. We didn't have to join in the fight if we felt that way. They all knew we couldn't. We don't have the military capability to do that. All they wanted was a pat on the back, and a "go get em' boys", a little moral support. And we let them down.<p> <p>---<br>"History does nor repeat itself, but it does rhyme" Mark Twain

Some disagreement - where was the US when Canadians were getting slaughtered in WW1? WW2?

Should we have gone to Vietnam too? Just because they did?

Germany is an ally of ours as is France, we were far from the only nation to say no to an illegal war.

The best friend you can have is one that tells you that you are wrong!

The above comment is mine - somehow I got logged out?

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If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.

Are you under the impression that we are THAT close with Australia and Britain? Just becuase we\'re on speaking terms, doesn\'t mean we have to support them. Most of their allies didn\'t support them....... You make zero sense. On the one hand, you want us to become more independent, on the other hand, you seem to want us to rely on our \"Friends.\" If Canada, as you mentioned, had no resources for Iraq, why should we give a thumbs up to something we don\'t agree with: ie \"We don\'t support imperial, expansionist, greedy, fear-mongering, threatening nations.\" What about that do you not understand? Over 95% percent of the world\'s population was against the war, so what on earth are you talking about? Also, as we mentioned the U.S., who spends 50% of the world\'s military budget, doesn\'t need our help, if they want to be childish bullies. Get out of the American\'s bed.

Also, wouldn\'t we be risking our safety by participating in an unjust war? There\'s a reason Canada doesn\'t get attacked, and its not our small military.

Interesting point of view, \'if I was to start a bar fight\', well, if I was with a friend that started a bar fight, I would intervene on behalf of my friend but not the way you would. I would apologize for the idiot I was with, grab hold of him/her and take them out of the bar. I wouldn\'t join in the fight and hoping we would win, then beat on my friend later. Actually I have been around people, who won\'t start a fight unless they think all their friends will back them up, I usually see those guys as cowards. They won\'t stand up for anything unless they are well reinforced. I have more respect for the lone wolf that will stand up for what they believe in, walk away from violence whenever possible and attempt to talk or negotiate to a better solution.

Canada was the lone wolf, Canada was not running on inflated male hormones, perhaps because Chretien is a little older and not as easily intimidated as a younger Bush! Canada is pro-peace, hence the peace-keeper image, even though I realize we have seen our violent times. Canada doesn\'t need to be anti-anything as long as we are pro-Canada first. We need to stand for peace and humanitarian missions. If anything we need to educate other countries on how to be diplomats, as I believe our Canadian soldiers are teaching by example in Afghanistan right now. For some reason the maturity level seems to be a bit higher in Canada, although not all our people or politicians are, but for the most part, we aren\'t as easily taken in by the need to \'beat our chests and prove our manliness\' to the world. That\'s the way I see it.

As far as I know, that concept only exists in totaliritian states. In the Soviet Union under Brezhnev & in Brazil under the generals, it was anti-Soviet & anti-Brazilian to express dissenting views. Are we all anti-Canadian for coming to this site & reading everything? If someone tried to tell me I\'m anti-Canadian I\'d laugh. If anything, we\'re pro-Canadian because we\'re in favour of helping ordinary people. I don\'t even know what \"anti-American\" means, somebody please explain.

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"So many right-wing christians, so few lions." - t-shirt I saw @ school

I agree with Roy that being called "anti" anything is more of a slur than a legitimate argument. <p> I also have a big problem with the sort of testosterone-soaked argument offered up above (not least because I'm a woman and tend to be skeptical of that sort of good-buddy male bonding analogy). But any way you slice it that bar fight analogy is less reasoned argument than rhetoric. We're not talking about a bar fight where maybe one or two people end up with a bloody nose or swollen knuckles--we're talking about a WAR. A situation in which thousands of people, including men, women and children, were wounded and killed by weaponry far superior to their own--or left homeless, jobless, destitute, and/or sick from lack of clean water and power in the aftermath. A situation in which troops and civilians alike were exposed to bombings, gunfire, and apparently, radioactive material (depleted uranium) which may lead to long-term health problems. <p> The stakes here are not the pride of a couple of drunken idiots (I live in a small redneck town and I've seen my share of barfights so I know what I'm talking about there). The stakes are literally the lives of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of people, and in fact, the fabric of international law and therefore global security, since the U.S. did a nice end-run around the U.N. and any number of international treaties and conventions. <P> Yes, we're friends with the U.S. But to borrow from some more motherly analogies, I tend to feel that friends shouldn't let friends bomb Iraq--and just because your "best friend" is bombing Iraq, that doesn't mean you should as well. <p> Finally, here's a very good article on why helping out the U.S. because they would help us <a href="http://www.igsreality.ca/family.htm">is a myth</a> (by James Laxer). <p> According to Laxer: <p> "The idea that the United States would rush to our side is touching. <p> The only problem is that there has not been a single case to which anyone can point when the U.S. has come to our side to meet a security threat to Canada since the Thirteen Colonies declared their independence in 1776."

No, we'd all be anti-American for reading this site. If you're a "nationalist" (ie someone who believes in the preservation of Canada or Canadian society to some extent) then you're automatically anti-American. See for example: <a href="http://www.robertfulford.com/AntiAmericanism2.html">Anti-American Cant a Self-Inflicted Wound</a> in which "anti-American nationalist" is treated as an acceptable and unremarkable term. Anti-Canadian is not a slur that's used often, although if it were it would be more applicable to those who hate Canadian policies--see <a href="http://www.isp.msu.edu/CanadianStudies/dimitry.htm">Anti-American? What about anti-Canadianism?</a>. <p> A pro-American site would be all about the reasons why American policy is great and Canada wants to help and support President Bush and his policies any way we can. These do actually exist. <p> I hate to drive any hits to it, but one of the sites I've seen includes a spot for "anti-American of the day" and promises to monitor anti-Americanism in Canada and attack it (I would call that McCarthyism, while we're naming names). Thankfully it hasn't been updated in some time so I doubt that project is going forward. See: <a href="http://www.canadianfriendsofamerica.net/">Canadian Friends of America</a>.

I agree with Susan on the analogy of the bar fight. We are talking about destruction of people and an entire society. I think if any one wants to call us anti, it should be \'anti-senseless death and useless destruction\'. That I don\'t mind at all! I am totally against wasting human lives to puff up a regime that wants to satisfy it\'s own values and disregards everyone else\'s. For whatever reason Chretien stood his ground on this one, I am glad he was in power and not Martin or Harper etc. I don\'t usually support the Liberal agenda, but on this issue I was pleased. It\'s unfortunate that the American people are being painted with the same brush as their administration, as I don\'t get the sense that they were for the war, they were bruised because of 911 and fed rhetoric to make them beleive that vengeance was in order. I believe that upon reflection and after the truth comes out, many supporters will wish they had looked beyond the media spin and not given Bush such unbridled permission to do whatever he wanted, to whomever he wanted!

No I meant if we come here, we probably don\'t like what our current government is doing. I think that would make us anti-Canadian somehow. I still don\'t know what the definition of anti-American is.

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"So many right-wing christians, so few lions." - t-shirt I saw @ school

Yeah, a war is quite different than a bar fight. And not to mention, why should we stand behind the USA on anything when they slap punitive tarriffs on our lumber, ban our potatoes for stupid reasons, and threaten us constantly whenever we display some sovereign policy? US bullying of Canada has been going on for years, since the 1800`s, and we`re supposed to blindly support them, especially for a bogus imperialist war? Right now, Canada and the US are working together on a joint scientific project off the coasts of BC, Washington state, and Oregon, to monitor the ocean. Something like this, I say, yeah, lets work together! let`s see if we can benefit the planet by studying oceanic phenomena. We need more of that kind of bi-lateral co-operation, all the while maintaining our sovereignty. That`s something I can live with for sure. But the imperialism, war-mongering, bullying, corporate lackey stuff, GET IT OUT OF HERE!!!

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Dave Ruston

<i>Some disagreement - where was the US when Canadians were getting slaughtered in WW1? WW2?</i><p> When Canada was backing up England and France? They were cooling on the sidelines of course, just like Canada did in Iraq. Of course there is no shame in having our own policy, but see below for repercussions. . .<p> <p>---<br>"History does nor repeat itself, but it does rhyme" Mark Twain

I think the first misconception you (whoever you are) have is that my views were up for discussion. The author of the article asked <i>"why do we keep hearing from certain Canadians that we screwed up?"</i>. Since I am a Canadian who thinks we did, I gave my views as to why I think that.<p> <i>Are you under the impression that we are THAT close with Australia and Britain?</i><p> Our ties to Britan and Austrailia are much stonger than you seem to realize.<p> <i>On the one hand, you want us to become more independent, on the other hand, you seem to want us to rely on our "Friends."</i><p> I said no such thing. I said we should support our allies. Morally, if not with troops. If we want our economy to be more independent, we need to have countries around the world who will trust our intentions.<p> <i>"We don't support imperial, expansionist, greedy, fear-mongering, threatening nations." </i><p> What we said was "We will not support you unless the UN does", defering our forgein policy to a UN that supports dictators, terrorists and mass murderers. What we should have said was "We don't support this agression against an independant country, without the sanctioning of the UN, but we support your right to defend yourself if you feel you are justified in doing so." Same thing, more diplomatic.<p> <i>What about that do you not understand?</i><p> What I do understand is the way the American Media has reported Canada's actions. It started and ended with "Canada will not support the war on Terror" which most Americans support. Therefore Canada is no longer their ally. Irrespective of what we actually do, that is the impression most Americans have. They can't be bothered to research the issue further, they prefer CNN and FOX to spoon feed them their information. Three soldiers being killed last month didn't even make papers in the US, mainly because their troops are dying every day. They have no concept that we are even in Afghanistan. Our stance on decriminilazing weed makes us enemys in the "War on Drugs". SARS has turned us into the Leper colony of North America. The constant American Bashing by our politicians has given them the perception that we see them as arrogant and loud. I know many Americans, and the facts are that this is how they see us now.<p> These are the perceptions of how the up-and coming American, 25-35 years old percieve Canada. In 10 - 20 years, they will be running all the big companies, they will be Senators and Congressmen, they will control the media. And how will their perceptions shape their decisions with respect to Canada? Will their company build that new plant in Canada or buy Candian products? Will their Homeland Security build an armed patroled wall along the 49th Parallel? They still think that 19 Saudi Hijackers on September 11th came from Canada! They heard one sound bite, and that is all their attention span allows them!<p> Perceptions are much harder to change without facts. Ask most Americans who our Prime Minister is. They'll tell you P.E. Trudeau. The man's been out of office many years, but they don't even know he's passed away. We had our chance to form another perception in the American Psyche, and our politicians blew it. You're deluding yourself to think that Canada's economy, being so heavily tied to the US economy, does not rely heavily on the American peoples perception of Canadians. You think Mad Cow bans, softwood lumber tarrifs, wheat and barley tarrifs and steel tarrifs had nothing to do with our decision to not support their right to defend themselves, however wrong, as they see fit?<p> <i>Also, wouldn't we be risking our safety by participating in an unjust war? </i><p> "A man who gives up a little privacy for a little security deserves nethier." Benjamin Franklin.<p> Who said we had to participate? Who says our safety isn't already at risk, just by being "Zionist Dominated Capitalist Infidels". Extremeists don't discriminate between "Friends of my Enemy" and "Enemy of my Enemy". They see only "Enemy Infidels".<p> <i>There's a reason Canada doesn't get attacked, and its not our small military.</i><p> You are deluding yourself to think that cowering in a darkened basement will make us safer. You are deluded to think our lack of a Military force will make the US protect us in their own interests. They will protect themselves first. Canada could become another Iraq, a military occupied protectorate of the US. All it would take would be a few determined extremeists to threaten the oil the US depends on us for.<p><p>---<br>"History does nor repeat itself, but it does rhyme" Mark Twain