Let’s go back a few years to the last Conservative (and the last true Conservative) government. Are our memories so short we can’t remember the dirt that emerged from that Government? What did that Government do for us as Canadians? Well, they integrated the Canadian economy even tighter to the U.S., established the GST, formulated NAFTA which has NOT worked for our concerns – softwood, cattle to name a few. Not to mention the incredible deficit that Government ran us into.
Let’s move ahead to the following election and a majority Government for the Liberals. Although, yet to be proven, there may have been some illegal activity by a few, what did the former Finance Minister do. He took a stand, made some really tough decisions and eventually balanced the budget. Thank you Mr. Martin. My children’s lives will be better thanks to your efforts.
Later, Mr. Martin was either fired or resigned. We don’t know for sure. Was it because he was dirty making payoffs and Mr. Chrétien (whom has been heavily implicated in the sponsorship scandal) and has appeared somewhat of a street thug disagreed with what Mr. Martin was doing. Or the more likely scenario, Mr. Martin learned about the scandal and resigned. Let’s think about this for a moment. Who can forget the moment Mr. Chrétien took on that activist in the street and through him to the ground. Do many of Mr. Chrétien actions show that of someone with great integrity or that of someone whom is very secretive and controlling. Has Mr. Martin (the man who got this country out of a financial disaster) shown contempt or indignity at any time. Simple question, why would someone whom wanted to become PM and work so hard to get this countries finances in shape participate in the sponsorship scandal. It does not make sense. Let’s really think about this.
Short-term thinking is “the last Liberal government stole money from Canadians – let’s get them by voting Conservative, NDP or worse Bloc”. This is so wrong.
I ask you, what PM and/or government has done so much good for this country in the past 20 or even 30 years as what Mr. Martin and “His” people have done. I believe it would be an absolute travesty to remove a man from our government that has done so much for our children’s future as what Mr. Martin has.
Long-term thinking is, yes, the previous government has done some wrong – yes some members have, but ask yourself have they done more good than any government in years – Absolutely!
Long-term thinking is being mature and worldly and thinking yes some members have done wrong, but the liberals have also done really well, and the man who mainly did the good is now PM. I see this as a huge opportunity for Canada. Look at Mr. Martin’s track record – NO DEFICIET. As PM, wow there is great potential with this leader.
Who called for the inquiry, who is insisting the inquiry finish its judgment – Mr. Martin.
I see our current Liberal government as one with the same traits as its leader, Integrity, honesty, openness and one that needs a majority government to accomplish more.
So what should we do as Canadians? Think of ourselves and get pay back or be bigger than that and think about the future of Canada and our children. What should we do? Vote Liberal and vote in a majority so we can truly see what Mr. Martin is capable of doing for our great land.
Do you really want Stephen Harper as PM? The leader of a party that doesn’t even know what their own policies are. A PM that leads the Reform, Alliance, New Conservatives. Well I guess if you do not care too much about Canadian sovereignty and would like to become more entwined with US policy and see our Surplus that Mr. Martin orchestrated vanish setting us back 10 years then I guess he is your man. You may say, yes but Harper is for the West. Who spent more time in the west during the last election Mr. Martin or Harper? Who has been emphasizing the importance of the west and a power shift from the east to the West? Who has been the only PM ever to spend so much time and emphasis on the west – Mr. Martin. Think about that.
Shall we vote NDP? Better than Conservative with social programs – good, but again there goes the surplus. Again setting us back 10 years and our children’s futures.
So which is best? Short-term or Long-term thinking. What is best for Canada, not what is best for me? Even more importantly, which party can provide best for our Children’s future? There is only one answer – Vote liberal, vote for Mr. Martin.
Imagine a country with no deficit and the potential of no debt. I know no better man to orchestrate that than Mr. Martin. Then it’s payback time. Then it’s time to cut taxes and make Canada absolutely the best and one of the most influential countries in the world.
I’m voting Liberal because I love and want the best for my children.
Kent Green
Langley, B.C.
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Martin is an ass. He's so tied up in big business that I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him. Harper? Well he's just a slimeball, don't get me started. The NDP? Maybe, what the hell is wrong with spending the surplus? Social programs need funding. Badly.
I mean really, it's sad there's not a clear choice, but making the liberals out to be anything more than mediocre is hilarious.
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Now call it extreme if you like, but I propose we hit it hard, and we hit it fast, with a major, and I mean major, leaflet campaign.--Rimmer, Red Dwarf
Elections are supposed to be where democratic people voice their approval or disapproval for what's going on. What's the alternative when we demand change? Violent Revolution. Silence? A beauty contest?
Harper wants free votes on matters of conscience and all important legislation not part of the budget or main estimates. You sound like you might favor that approach some day. That may give us a more accurate sense of who to blame for the messes we keep getting in.
Liberal-we are screwed and may find some satisfaction.
Conservative-it will hurt,no matter what.
NDP-there is always the first time.
Green-new treatment for social disease that could very well get rid of the infection without pain and leave us sweet again.
You can't begin to compare the Conservatives under Mulroney who brought in the GST and NAFTA, and the Liberals under Chretien/Martin who will soon be found guilty of massive government corruption under the Sponsorship Program. The actions of both of these government are apples and oranges in comparison.
Have the Liberals tried to undo the damage done by NAFTA? No, not at all. Infact they wanted to tax Canadian mills as a way of resolving the Softwood lumber dispute! The United States owes us $4,000,000,000 and their response was to tax our own mills. And what about the GST, have they done away with it yet? Well, everyone can remember Shiela Copps pledging to resign if the Liberals didn't do away with the GST once they came into power. We can also all remember the spectacle that followed.
I'm reminded of a recent interview with Stephan Hachemi (Zhara Kazemi's son) on the CBC a few weeks ago. He was talking about a meeting he had with Pierre Pettigrew who had told him that he was going to bring up his mother's case at an upcoming G8 meeting. Mr. Hachemi's response was that that would not be enough, that he expected the government to do more than mention his mother's case at a meeting of G8 leaders. What was Mr. Pettigrew's reply? "Well, if you don't support me, I'm not going to do it". A typical Liberal response nowadays.
You say the Conservatives want to sell out the country to the United States? You talk about Canadian sovereignty, but what about the Liberal Party? The plan Preston Manning and Mike Harris unveiled yesterday in Toronto was not at all that disimilar from the plan endorsed by former deputy PM John Manley a few weeks ago! I give the Conservatives credit and respect. At least they have the common deceny to tell us to our faces that they're going to screw us over. The Liberals talk tough about protecting Canada, they'll play the anti-American card to great effect, and yet the first chance they get they're off trying to sell us out.
You say the Conservatives want to do away with public healthcare? What about the Liberals? This Prime Minister has put into place legislation that allows the provinces to experiment with private health care services. The Prime Minister goes to a private health care clinic himself, talk about being a hypocrite!
The truth of the matter is that if we had a better choice than either the Conservatives, the NDP, or the Bloc and if we had an unbaised media that wasn't corporately controlled and that did its job properly the Liberals would have been thrown out of government years ago. Instead, they've allowed themselves to become complacent and bloated off of Canadian tax payers money and the votes of honest Canadians who should have known better.
The author of this article did get one thing right, we Canadians need to start asking ourselves "what can we do for our country?"
If we have any sense in this country we should work at creating better awareness in the mainstream media, learn as a society to become more politically active/aware and to hold our politicians accountable for their actions, and most importantly we should work towards creating a better national alternative to the current federal parties. A new party for a new future. Or something along those lines...
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"I pick the bones of what's been done. I'm the revolution when the door is shut. I bite the hand that slaps me senseless. I am far too Canadian" -SotW
That's also partially because the NDP exists as a more progressive alternative to the Liberals, so in order to continue to be perceived as "centrist" the Liberals have to try harder to look like they're progressive/leftist too. If the NDP didn't exist I shudder to think how much more right the Liberal party would get, in both what they said AND what they did. Currently by making themselves look a little leftist they can get votes that otherwise would head to the NDP, votes they CAN get because they say "the NDP will never hold power while we can and do, so vote for us because we're progressive/caring/concerned too but we can do more to make a change". It's a strategy which is all too effective, and often works even on die-hard NDP supporters. Especially because people often believe what the Liberals say rather than looking at what they actually do, a problem aided and abetted by the corporate media as Angus already pointed out. As little as people say they trust politicians, they are still easily manipulated by those talking points I mentioned in another comment, esp when they are repeated over and over by politicians and quoted/repeated in the media (eg talking point: "Paul Martin is effective at managing the affairs of the country because he balanced Canada's budget and eliminated the deficit.") It's called rhetoric, people, and we all need to develop better BS detectors.
(PS As for the Greens, I am yet to be convinced they are actually a viable progressive alternative, since their economics seem to be capitalism and free market all the way, likely rendering their environmental policies ineffective.)
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Now call it extreme if you like, but I propose we hit it hard, and we hit it fast, with a major, and I mean major, leaflet campaign.--Rimmer, Red Dwarf
I always appreciate educated infomative responses. I would be interested in actually seeing something unique posted "free thought" from you - something original. I have looked you up and see plenty of responses and with many Simpson's reflections. Believe it or not some people do not watch the Simpsons. Nothing like using a cartoon to help make your political point. I hope to see something unique and authentic and intelligent posted from you in the future to which I may add my comments.
I read that and I can't believe that a supposedly educated marketing manager actually said that. I know it is a limited 5 person poll and 60% are of the opinion that an election should not be called, but i shake my head at some people's head in the sand approach.
That truly is scary.
The government is now shown to be so tainted and yet there are Canadians so blind. Mr. Martin should be going with cap in hand to the Canadian people and call an election and be tossed onto the scrap heap of history
Jeremiah Solberg
down under
You know I'm looking at your post and it is clear to me that you brought up Brian Mulroney, the GST, and NAFTA. So as it turns out I was being quite "on topic" in my original post. Now in my post I argued that the Liberals have done nothing thus far to eliminate the GST or deal with the negative consquences of the NAFTA. In fact the Liberal Party has done everything they can possibly do to see that the GST stays in place, and that further deep intergration with the United States comes into being.
To support this claim one could mention Mr. Manley's endorsement of deep intergration with the United States last month, Frank McKenna's comments that bringing jobs north of the border is "not where we want to go", Mr. Martin's little sojourn in Waco recently, and as I previously mentioned the bizzare attempt by the Liberals to resolve the Softwood lumber dispute by taxing our own mills. And yet, you're going to tell us that it's the Conservatives we should be worried about?
Now I brought up the Stephan Hachemi interview on the CBC to show my belief that your aforementioned "ME" mentality prominently exists with in the current Liberal Party psyche. Mr. Pettigrew was willing to lend a hand so long as Mr. Hachemi did not disagree with Mr. Pettigrew's approach. When Mr. Hachemi showed how unsatisfied he was with Mr. Pettigrew's lathargic attempts to win justice for his mother Mr. Pettigrew desmonstrated his "ME" mentality by saying that if Mr. Hachemi did not support him (publicly?) then he would do nothing. As an elected representative and Minister of Foreign Affairs he is required to represent all Canadians, not just the interests of the small few who endorse his actions or his party. It is sad that an elected official would behave in this manner over a matter as tragic as the brutal rape, torture, and murder of Ms. Zhara Kazemi.
You make mention in your letter of a few "dirty" or rogue elements with in the Liberal Party (as I believe they are phrasing it these days) but I was not aware that either the Minister of Public Works or Prime Minister (Chretien) himself constituted a rogue element of the Liberal Party of Canada? The Liberals are the governing party, and they are the ones who are responsible for its mismanagement and abuse. They are to blame, not the Conservatives, the New Democrats, the Bloc, or even Brian Mulroney (although given the chance, I wouldn't put it past him).
As Finance Minister we expected Mr. Martin to keep track of the government's finances by knowing where the money is being spent, by whom and to question anything that may seem out of the ordinary. Did he know about the abuse with in the program? No, but that could chance with further months of testimony yet to come. As Prime Minister he did the only they he could (and should) do by setting up the inquiry, but it was interesting to see him shut down the inquiry in time for an election so as not to further damage the Liberal Party at the time of the election.
As someone who has supported the Liberal Party for so long I'm sure these must be difficult times for you. I've continued my criticism of your letter in the absence of any clear or detailed opposition from its author. I would love it if you could respond to me in full this time, with a detailed opposition to my post(s) containing as many facts as possible. Others have posted their opposition to your assertion that Mr. Martin's track record as Finance Minister was anything but successful, would you care to set the record straight? I'd like to leave you with the following quote, hopefully it will give you something to think about...
"Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Liberty is the only object which benefits all alike, and provokes no sincere opposition. The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to to govern. Every class is unfit to govern. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
-Lord Acton
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"I pick the bones of what's been done. I'm the revolution when the door is shut. I bite the hand that slaps me senseless. I am far too Canadian" -SotW
Independant Nationalist. What is that? No I'm not making a dig. I don't know what that means. To me it means being Noncommittal and therefore unable to make a difference. Is this an organzied group that has a chance of making any difference? Or, is it best to work from within a party (don't care which one) to make change happen.
You obviously are very good at point counter point, but I fear that either my posting was not clear or just the word Liberal frightens people.
The main point of my original posting was - Let's not be overly reactive. Let's move forward - Liberal or not, but with someone who will not undo, but enhance. I just don't see anybody on the radar that can lead, other than Paul Martin. Please explain to me who can and why? You yourself stated that power corrupts. I completely agree and have never stated the liberals have been clean. Quite the opposite.
Also, please explain who in recent history who has done a better job with the Finance portfolio than Paul Martin. Simple question. Educate me because I can't think of anyone.
Is any party clean. Come on - it's politics. Calmer heads prevail otherwise we are throwing out every government that gets dirty and we NEVER move forward. Unless your perspective is that there is such a thing as an honest government. I don't see that as any remote possibility.
It is understandable that the Liberal party is not well liked now (and I don't think they have been in a while) this happens with every party that has been in power for a few terms - its a natural cycle it seems. This does not bother me. If I felt that they (the Liberals) were worse than any of the alternatives, I would not be having this discussion. Have they made big mistakes - yes huge. Who though is better to take this country further?
This has nothing to do with party allegence - yes I am a liberal and a member of the party, but the bigger picture of what I was writing has seemed to be lost.
Emotion, anger, frustration, revenge - put it aside. Think outside the box and what is best for the country. You have every right to disagree with me and make all the "points" you want. It's not about me or your insults of me or my beliefs, but if you feel you must take that ground, knock your socks off. I am not in the habit of knocking off facts just to "win". There is no winner, we all lose.
I am not interested in "defending" my point of view because I don't need too, but I am pleased there are forums like this where I can share ideas. You don't need to agree, but get off the couch and do something positive. As an Independent Nationalist I would think you would be very interested in Non-partisan politics for the good of the many not the one which was exactly my point to begin with.