The New Pearl Harbor

here's some audio of Griffin stuttering after being asked about his book:<br />
<a href="http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/26/150221&mode=thread&tid=25">http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/26/150221&mode=thread&tid=25</a><p>---<br>"George Bush has declared the war on terrorism to be the cause of his generation. The cause of Canadian sovereignty will be ours." - John Godfrey, MP for Don Va

He doesn't stutter on the audio file I posted, so what do you mean to imply by saying that he is stuttering on the audio link you provided? Does he actually have a speech impediment or what? Do you have anything to say about what he says?

I have some new high quality videos, (actually they are old but it is the first time I have had access to them and therefore they are new to me), and when you stop the video of the second plane before it crashes into the WTC south tower, you can see what is attached underneath the plane. I will post a link to these videos tonight.

Seeing anti-American hate propaganda on a "for Canada" web site is extremely sad, and disheartening. I had hoped we as a people could transcend such pure hate targeted at a group or class of people based soley upon their place of birth. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with CANADA in any way, shape, or form, and is nothing more than pure hate propaganda. Like I said. Sad. A true contradiction to the stated purpose of vive. How it came to be posted in the first place is beyond me. It would be nice to see something positive develop out of a forum on Canadian sovereignty, pride, national unity/identity and so forth. This is not positive. This has nothing to do with us, our pride, our identity, or our soveregnty. Hate. That's what it is. That's all. I'm beginning to see what some people have been telling me about our society. That we accomplish nothing, and have become but a nation of hateful, whining, finger pointers. Even if we have to rely on purely speculative hype as opposed to fact, or even worse, we begin to make it up ourselves. We can't see the forest for the trees anymore can we. I am ashamed. Truly ashamed. I would like to feel proud of my country, and my countrymen. This doesn't do it for me, sorry. Of course this is but my own opinion. But I am having a hard time these days with just what it is that we stand for here. Is the name of this site "vivelecanada", or "wehateamerica" ? With all that is happening here within CANADA...especially right now...why this? We have issues to face and issues to discuss, and issues to resolve. Is it that we are feeling like we should do our part to keep the Liberal Party in place by doing whatever small thing we can to divert attention off from the Sponsorship Scandal/Gomery Inquiry, and refocus it back on America as opposed to Canada's issues? Is that it? Trying to protect our sneaking, thieving friends in the currently existing government/corporate power elite? Trying to keep attention off our good pal Jack, currently jumping into Paul's bed for a loonie or two? Tell what this has to do with us here in Canada please. Make the connection for me. I am truly the most stupid person on this site for not seeing what is apparently so obvious to everyone else. Did I somehow miss the line up of Canadian politicians and CEO's that parachuted out of the plane at the last moment to survive to become our current elected leaders? What? Were they Air Canada planes or something? Help me out here...please prove to me conclusively that this article isn't just about hatred of an entire nation of men, women, and children that bear us no ill will...please???

"please prove to me conclusively that this article isn't just about hatred of an entire nation of men,"

Why do we have to prove something to you that is simply illogical? This article is about whether or not facts about September 11 which we are told happened, really happened. There is ample evidence that we may not have all the facts about what really happened that day, and we may still not have all the facts.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with "hatred of an entire nation" so you can just quit jerking that knee and post something other than your docile Canadian attitude toward 'the nation-who-must-be-appeased', grow a pair, get informed and start to think for yourself.


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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill

There's a corruption scandal going on in Canada that may threaten the current minority Liberal government and lead to a June election. This 'scandal' is very old news, and Canada has had an election since the issue broke, so much of it appears to have been generated by the opposition Conservatives and their very good friends in the disgusting Canadian media. A lot of the speculation is based on polls which have been generated by exactly the same polling companies which attempted to swing the last election to the Conservatives by releasing polling results which showed much, much higher Conservative support than was reflected in the election results (these lying polls were a form of 'push polling', intended to make the Conservative victory seem inevitable, but Canadians weren't fooled). Here's the best thing I've read on the subject, by 'weapons-grade pandemonium' in a Metafilter thread:

"Suppose for a minute the money was kicked back to the Liberals to save the country. If you look at the sleazy way the Canadian Alliance took over the Conservatives, how their platform is built nail for nail on the American agenda, then add Western and Eastern alienation & almost losing the Québec separatist referendum way back, and you'll see a picture of massive forces dedicated to breaking up Canada, picking clean our natural resources, and installing Star Wars under a Fundie government. Just suppose."


Exactly! We're seeing the 'Orange Revolution' applied to Canada. Americans right-wingers would dearly love to change Canada into an extreme right-wing clone of the United States, but have had to be very careful in doing so as being seen to interfere would have the opposite effect. They appear to have found the secret weapon.



The latest scandal is based on self-serving unsubstantiated allegations, the main ones from someone who is awaiting criminal prosecution for his role in the matter. These were hidden under a temporary publication ban intended to allow for a fair trial, a ban which was effectively broken by a systematic campaign by right-wing American bloggers who revealed the testimony based on their 'confidential sources'. We've already seen the use of blogs by the extreme right wing of the Republican party, particularly in the matter of the CBS Bush service memos. Paul Martin, the leader of the Liberals, has publicly stated that Canadians will play no role in Iraq (and the Americans are still riled that Canada refused to participate in the illegal attack in the first place), that Canada won't participate in the American missile defense program, and that Americans are welcome to try the Canadian refugee system to escape service in the war in Iraq. Canada has a large number of trade issues with the United States, particularly softwood lumber and beef, and Canada has slowly started to retaliate for American intransigence by putting tariffs on American goods. Canada is clearly angling to make a lot of money selling its enormous quantities of natural resources, including what is probably the largest quantity of hydrocarbons in the world in its oil sands . . . to China. Canadian lackadaisical attitudes towards enforcement of laws concerning marijuana drive the Americans crazy, as do the upcoming laws concerning gay marriage (American fundamentalists are sending large amounts of money to Canada to assist in the fundie campaign against the new laws, a fact which has probably hurt their cause). The Canadian health care system, which the Conservatives clearly want to destroy, is also very annoying as it gives Americans the idea that there may be some alternative to the insane American system. Cheap Canadian pharmaceutical prices don't help either.



The Conservatives have managed to smooth off some of the rough edges, but they are essentially a party combining extreme right-wing economics with hillbilly fundamentalist religious nuts. In other words, they have created a clone of the Republican Party. Canadians have seen the damage such policies have caused the United States, and clearly don't want any part of it. Will they be fooled by an 'Orange Revolution' - a campaign concocted in Washington to further extreme right-wing American corporate and fundie interests - into a disastrous choice of government?

And that has to do with the reported and accepted facts of September 11, 2001 . . . how exactly?


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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill

I must confess, when I saw the attacks happening on 911 on the TV, then witnessed how all the mainstream US channels were showing the towers collapsing over and over again, initially at least, every 10 or 15 minutes for a period of several days interspersing the clips of the collapsing buildings with their talking heads and terrorism consultants yammering on about Al Quaida and Osama, it all seemed very much like a black-op type brainwashing/progaganda excercise, and my immediate reaction was, "What are those CIA guys up to now," rather than, "Look what those evil-doing, dastardly terrorists have done this time." <br> <br> Since then of course we've found out a whole bunch of details that show the official story is shot full of holes, that the mainstream press dare not investigate or follow up. <br> <br> Have you ever heard of a Muslim fundamentalist who drank alcohol, hung out in bars, snorted coke and like to eat pork chops? Investigative journalist Daniel Hopsicker found this out about the supposed Muslim fundamentalist terrorist Mohammed Atta, allegedly one of the ringleaders of the 911 attackers, by interviewing Atta's former girlfriend and other aquaintances from the time Atta was supposedly undergoing flight training at a shady Florida flight school (actually as Hopsicker found out, Atta was already a qualified pilot when he came to the US and was given instructor privelidge while at the flight school).<br><br> <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1433886">Mohammed Atta loved pork chops and 49 other things you may not know</a><br><br> It should also be noted that the US government seems to be doing their level best to keep under wraps the testimony of the former FBI translator and Whistle Blower Sibel Edmonds, who claims that from what she saw while working for the FBI as a translator well known US politicians and government agency heads were complicit drug dealing and money laundering operations that were connected to the 911 attacks. <br><br> <i>Washington -- April 25, 2005 -- TomFlocco.com -- Former FBI contract translator and whistleblower Sibel Edmonds and her attorneys were ordered removed from the E. Barrett Prettyman U.S. Courthouse so that a three-judge U.S. Court of Appeals panel could discuss her case in private with Bush administration lawyers.<br><br> In an exclusive interview on Saturday, we asked Edmonds if she would deny that laundered drug money linked to the 911 attacks found its way into recent House, Senate and Presidential campaign war-chests, according to what she heard in intelligence intercepts she was asked to translate. <br><br> "I will not deny that statement; but I cannot comment further on it," she told TomFlocco.com, in a non-denial denial.<br><br> Edmonds is appealing the Bush administration’s arcane use of "state secrets privilege," invoked last year to throw out her U.S. District Court lawsuit alleging retaliation for telling FBI superiors about shoddy wiretap translations and allegations that wiretap information was passed to the target of an FBI investigation. Given our multiple reports and numerous other interviews, Edmonds heard much more--but enough to warrant public suppression of criminal evidence by a wholly Republican appeals court panel?<br><br> "Tom, I’m telling you that not a single newspaper covered what happened to me on Thursday when I went into court," said the exasperated translator, adding, "[Judge David] Ginsberg kicked everyone out, cut off my lawyer’s arguments and told us ‘we have questions to ask the government’s attorneys that you cannot hear.’ "<br><br> Criminal evidence in Edmonds’ explosive case is apparently getting too close to Washington officials, since the former contract linguist also told us she would not deny that "once this issue gets to be...investigated, you will be seeing certain people that we know from this country standing trial; and they will be prosecuted criminally," revealing the content of the FBI intercepts she heard indicates that recognizable, very high-profile American citizens are linked to the 911 attacks.<br><br> Edmonds implied that legislators and even lobbyists were benefiting from laundered narcotics proceeds in an earlier interview with the Baltimore Sun, "...this money travels. And you start trying to go to the root of it and it’s getting into somebody’s political campaign, and somebody’s lobbying. And people don’t want to be traced back to this money."<br><br> So the Bush administration’s Department of Justice enlisted its taxpayer-funded lawyers to petition a Republican U.S. Appeals Court to suppress Sibel Edmonds’ criminal evidence allegations--linked to a 3,000 death mass murder--in the name of "state secrets."<br><br> When we asked how many Americans were named in the intercepts, Edmonds said "There is direct evidence involving no more than ten American names that I recognized," further revealing that "some are heads of government agencies or politicians--but I don’t want to go any further than that," as we listened in stunned silence.</i> <br><br> More at: <a href="http://tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=109">www.tomflocco.com</a>

one person (either Amy or the other guest) asked him to back up what he was saying & he couldn't.

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"George Bush has declared the war on terrorism to be the cause of his generation. The cause of Canadian sovereignty will be ours." - John Godfrey, MP for Don Va

>>Seeing anti-American hate propaganda on a "for Canada" web site is extremely sad, and disheartening. I had hoped we as a people could transcend such pure hate targeted at a group or class of people based soley upon their place of birth. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with CANADA in any way, shape, or form, and is nothing more than pure hate propaganda.<<

Here Here!!!!

Down with the American hating bigots!

Doc

As Dr Caleb said, the above article has nothing at all to do with hatred. It's about somebody questioning the facts of the WTC attack. The above link has nothing at all to do with anti-american sentiment; it is basically saying "end hatred and violence". And yet you are claiming it is about hatred. Seriously, wtf?

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Canadians are asking, why do americans hate us? They hate our freedoms: our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to disagree with each other.

Also, you may want to consider creating a user account Doc, so that people don't misattribute things said by other anonymous posters. You can use a throwaway email for the signup if you like; we take privacy seriously.

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Canadians are asking, why do americans hate us? They hate our freedoms: our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to disagree with each other.

Here is a link to new <a href="http://www.bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=5860">high resolution videos</a> of the attack on the WTC. The videos are not new but the high resolution offered is. If you investigate you will be able to see that something was definitely attached to the underside of whatever kind of plane it was that hit the second tower. <p>Also David Griffen's entire book is freely available here for you to read. The FEMA reports are all here as well as the 911 Commission Report and a plethora of other sites, videos and articles.

Not to mention the explosions in the towers just *before* the unexpected planes hit. Both of them.

And Building 7.

. . . too many unanswered questions.


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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill

I am puzzled why anyone who questions the official version of the September 11, 2001 events in New York City should be accused of hating Americans. There does not seem to be any rational reason to say or think that. Perhaps someone can explain the correlation to me in clear and unequivocal terms. I know with absolute dead certainty that huge numbers of Americans (many millions of them) have lots and lots of unanswered questions about what really happened. Surely they don't hate themselves? I certainly do not hate either America or Americans, anyone who even suggests that is an outright liar. As I have said before, hatred is gargage, and is for others, not for us. But American politicians, like our Canadian variety, have been caught so often in lies and duplicity that they do not engender much automatic trust among thinking people. Also, there are so many inconsistencies, contradictions and gaps in the September 11 story that one cannot help but wonder if indeed something has not been covered up. I have seen no "smoking gun" proving that such is the case, but I still need to hear more irrefutable facts and see more incontravertable evidence before I am ready to accept the official version. There may be no cover up; but if not why try to frighten or bully people away from looking at the issues? Everybody in the world, especially Americans, and most especially those Americans who lost loved ones on that day, deserve to know the truth, nothing but the truth and to feel comfortable with it.

What worries me most is the state of the North American media, indeed the "western" corporate media in general. I really wonder if some "smoking gun" did eventually emerge pointing to an an awful lie or a terrible conspiracy, is there any media outlet anywhere in the "western world" with the freedom, courage, honesty, independence and integrity to properly investigate and report it? That might be the most troubling aspect of the whole matter, and the greatest obstacle to getting at the truth.