Justice Mosley agreed with Mahjoub, "on a balance of probabilities, that he will not be removed from Canada within a reasonable time" and should be released from detention until a final decision is made.
Mahjoub admits to having worked for bin Laden in Sudan in the 1990s but denies any terrorist activities.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N15387197.htm
Note: http://www.alertnet.org...
Canadian Court Says Bin Laden Employee Can Be Freed
Posted on Thursday, February 15 at 14:57 by drcalebContributed By
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Seven years without even a trial. Any crime that waits for court requires immediate attention and "not as long as it takes to gather evidence" Ironicaly, democracy once demanded that the accused must be proven guilty in a court of law without undo time in jail. Hmmm! I remember democracy as if it was yesterday, but then I wasn't being incarcerated and waiting for my trial.
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Expect little from life and get more from it.
(dons asbestos suit)
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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden
Or refuse to eat. ..If the judge thinks your sickly and preoccupied with your health............!
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Expect little from life and get more from it.
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Expect little from life and get more from it.
There is more evidence against Anne McLellan, Irwin Cotler, John Manley, Paul Martin and Bill Graham for kidnapping and illegally incarcerating a person than they obviously had on those they imprisoned. Disgusting!
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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche
LOL I've must have been reading too much Diogenes legal babel because I thought DC was saying something mysterious in Latin.
Time to hit the hay.
I guess we should just unlock all federal prisions. They think they are innocent too.
"In addition, why should anyone who is legally residing in Canada have to put up with this crap?"
Exactally! Why should I, as a Canadian citizen, fear for my safety because we allow dangerous people to time and time again be convicted of crimes in our country, then be deported only to have them show up again and commit more crimes!
"In this case, the "crime" was being an employee of a man who was suspected of being a criminal, and that's why they could not take him to court because a) being an employee is not against the law, "
So, Hermann Gorring, Joseph Mengela were 'just following orders'?
From the Article:
" - had been a high-ranking member of what the court called the Islamic terrorist organization Vanguards of Conquest"
- "had engaged in terrorism"
- "had significant contacts with "persons associated with international Islamic terrorism," including bin Laden and a man accused of helping bomb the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998."
"and b) they had nothing against him that could be proven in a real court. "
From the article:
"On three prior occasions, the Federal Court had found that Mahjoub posed a danger to national security, and it found that he had lied under oath about his associations."
"Dons Asbestos suit" because we've been through this before, the only difference here is some of the reason behind keeping a close watch on this guy and the reasons behind it are clearly stated.
As before, this guy can go back to the country of his citizenship anytime he wants to. Egypt doesn't take kindly to extremeists since they killed Sadat. He knew the concequences of his actions.
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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden
I don't get the comparision, there's a rather significant difference between being locked up after found guilty in a real court of law, and being simply locked up without charges on mere suspicion alone.
"Exactally! Why should I, as a Canadian citizen, fear for my safety because we allow dangerous people to time and time again be convicted of crimes in our country, then be deported only to have them show up again and commit more crimes!"
What dangerous people? Who was found to be dangerous? Are you talking about the security certificate system or just bad immigration policy?
"So, Hermann Gorring, Joseph Mengela were 'just following orders'?"
Did they lock up Hitlers accountant, and his driver, and his maids too? No, because they did not carry out any crimes. What crime did the man in question commit? If he's guilty of crimes, then let's take him before a real court and prove it. What are they so afraid of?
" - had been a high-ranking member of what the court called the Islamic terrorist organization Vanguards of Conquest"
Take him to a real court and let's see where that goes.
"had engaged in terrorism"
Take him to a real court and let's see where that goes.
"had significant contacts with "persons associated with international Islamic terrorism," including bin Laden and a man accused of helping bomb the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998."
Take him to a real court and let's see where that goes.
"On three prior occasions, the Federal Court had found that Mahjoub posed a danger to national security, and it found that he had lied under oath about his associations."
If all of these extremely vague accusations are true, then I think he should be taken before a real court so he can be found guilty of whatever it is, and tossed in a real prison. What are they so afraid of?
"Dons Asbestos suit" because we've been through this before, the only difference here is some of the reason behind keeping a close watch on this guy and the reasons behind it are clearly stated.
I honestly thought you were speaking latin, no joke and I got a good chuckle when I realized what you actually said, I must have been very tired at the time I read that.
Look, if this guy is a dangerous criminal, then they should take him to a real court instead of that kangaroo court where evidence against the accused is kept secret, but since they don't want to go that route I have to conclude the accusations are more of the same pack of "terrorist" lies we've been hearing about ever since the big 9/11 lie. I figure they let him out only after getting too much embarrassing flack from the human rights violations. His 7 years in prison for no reason along with a lengthy hunger strike must have hit home.
"As before, this guy can go back to the country of his citizenship anytime he wants to. Egypt doesn't take kindly to extremeists since they killed Sadat. He knew the concequences of his actions."
You are ignoring reality when you say that he can simply go free. After being accused of being a terrorist, innocent or not, he cannot return to Egypt without facing jail time, torture, and possibly death. Moreover, we know there are CIA torture flights passing through Canada, and if I were this man, I'd be very frightened of what may happen should I be deported.
David Millgard vs every other prisoner who says 'I am innocent' but really aren't. And as before, how do we know it is merely suspicion? He already has been caught lying to the court.
"What dangerous people? Who was found to be dangerous? Are you talking about the security certificate system or just bad immigration policy?"
Yes, to both. How many stories have we heard where a recent immigrant commits a crime (rape for example), is deported, returns to Canada only to rape again? There has been more than one case. Right or wrong, things changed 9/11/2001. Members of extremeist groups are not welcome in my country.
"What are they so afraid of?"
A mistake that costs many more Canadian lives.
"Take him to a real court and let's see where that goes."
I agree. 7 years is too long for him to be imprisioned.
"If all of these extremely vague accusations are true, then I think he should be taken before a real court so he can be found guilty of whatever it is, and tossed in a real prison."
Which is what he faces in Egypt. He has been tried, and found guilty. No cable TV for him. (Differences in our two justice aside.)
"I honestly thought you were speaking latin, no joke and I got a good chuckle when I realized what you actually said, I must have been very tired at the time I read that."
Hehe. No worries. I got a chuckle from your reaction too. I can see how it would look like a Diogenefication.
"You are ignoring reality when you say that he can simply go free."
I never said 'free'. I said out of Canadian detention and deported.
"After being accused of being a terrorist, innocent or not, he cannot return to Egypt without facing jail time, torture, and possibly death."
I think you confuse 'accused' and 'convicted' there. Can't do the time, don't do the crime.
"Moreover, we know there are CIA torture flights passing through Canada, and if I were this man, I'd be very frightened of what may happen should I be deported."
Who's using the tactic of 'fear' here? No proof has ever been presented that passengers board or joined those flights while in Canadian territory.
And where pray tell can a Canadian citizen be 'deported' to? Newfoundland?
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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden
voluntarily surrendering their civil rights. Kind of makes
you wonder who is the real threat to this imaginary
concept called freedom.
So, you are talking about David Millgard, who was convicted on suspicion alone. I am saying that many people in federal prision and yes, held on certificates, cry 'I'm innocent!'. Some are. Most are not.
"What are you talking about? What mistakes have happened in the past? You must be refering to the 9/11 attacks in the USA which as just about everyone on the planet now knows was in inside job. To my knowledge, there's been no major terrorist attacks in Canada ever. "
Yes, I am talking 9/11. Many Canadians died that day, and the kneejerk reaction that most governemnts take it to overreact, rather than allow the possibility of more death of innocents.
"Yeah, and if he was sent to Egypt then I'm sure they have ways of making him confess to whatever crimes they've found him guilty of."
Well, he already admitted it in Canada. I guess our torture techniques are more advanced.
"So then, let Egypt try and extradite him, what's the problem with that?"
I don't believe we have such a treaty with Egypt.
"If the guy actually is guilty of being a terrorist, then I can't but help think that perhaps he was a freedom fighter instead of the monster he's been made out to be."
'Freedom fighter'. That's funny. He was convicted of being a memeber of a terror organization in Egypt. Not of being a 'freedom fighter'.
"The people who do torture and advocate it are without question monsters of this world. "
I agree.
"The story about Arar is very real. All they need is a stop over in the USA to refuel or whatever, then the Canadian gov can say "Hey, we didn't send him off to be tortured.".
-1 Strawman argument.
"Fortunately not all the Judges are as bad a Justice Blais, a man who seems to feed off of this system of injustice.
Information On Security Certificates (Canada) J. Gratl BC Civil Liberties Association - Jan. 2005"
From the article -
"The existence of Star Chamber proceedings unfettered by public accountability is anathema to fundamental due process protections and is an embarrassment to the roots of our democratic principles. "
Ummmmm, yea. I always seem to repeat: The Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not apply to non-Canadian Citizens. We do not 'deport to torture', so odds are this guy will remain in Canada, and under strict conditions.
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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden
I could respond with "-1 Strawman argument."
The court that convicted Millgard was at least pretending to be fair, but the court we're speaking about makes it clear that those who are accused cannot defend themselves.
"Yes, I am talking 9/11. Many Canadians died that day, and the kneejerk reaction that most governemnts take it to overreact, rather than allow the possibility of more death of innocents."
9/11 is a pack of lies. The real terrorists are those who are coverning up what really happened on that day and it extends to those who are using 9/11 as a pretext for taking away our civil liberties, and engaging in various human rights violations - and we know who these people are. Besides, 9/11 is another strawman argument, since it has nothing what-so-ever to do with what I'm arguing against, which is the use of secret trials.
"Well, he already admitted it in Canada."
Admitted to what? From what I read, he says he's not a terrorist and the courts have failed to show us that he is.
"I don't believe we have such a treaty with Egypt."
And I can't imagine why.
"'Freedom fighter'. That's funny. He was convicted of being a memeber of a terror organization in Egypt. Not of being a 'freedom fighter'."
The man was an employee in an agricultural company owned by Bin Laden, how does that make him into a terrorist? Egypt is a country that tortures people into confessing to whatever they want, which means their court system is a farce.
"I agree."
So then, the jailers you wish to send this guy off to are the same people you think are monsters?
"Ummmmm, yea. I always seem to repeat: The Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not apply to non-Canadian Citizens.
You are completely wrong about who the Charter applies to.
For example:
"10. **Everyone** has the right on arrest or detention
a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor;
b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and
c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of **habeas corpus** and to be released if the detention is not lawful."
vs
"3. Every **citizen** of Canada has the right to vote in an election of members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein."
If you read through the Charter, you'll notice that each clause makes it clear if it applies only to citizens or to anyone on Canadian soil.
It is however important for all Canadians to learn that the fine print makes the Charter about as meaningfull as used ass-wipe since it clearly says that all of our "guaranteed rights" are NOT actually guaranteed right in clause No 1.
"We do not 'deport to torture', so odds are this guy will remain in Canada, and under strict conditions."
Did you not read through what happened? They tried very hard to have this guy deported knowing full well he'd be tortured. Fortunately some people inside the system still have some sense of justice left in them. If Mahjoub got stuck with Blais, he'd be long ago hanging from a wall upside down in an Egyptian torture chamber.