So Who Is Watching Out For The Truly Vulnerable In Canada?

"Brainwashing". Yea. People can't see why one man should have more than one wife, so the women must be 'brainwashed'.<p> This is why I dislike people making moral decisions for me. Usually, they get it wrong.<p><p>---<br>"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill <br />

Personally, one wife is more than enough for me. Having two or three listing my various faults would be too much to handle.

I'm not sure though that adults marrying fifteen year olds is within the boundaries of what most today would find acceptable, regardless of how community members may choose to view the matter.

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"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).

This is so nasty, whether they are brainwashing the women or not I'm pretty sure its illegal for three men to be married to a fifteen year old
girl...and isn't polygamy illegal in Canada period?

" "It's an attempt to understand the mindset of people brought up in a cult. It is not to judge them harshly. We can't judge them by normal standards. We are concerned for them." "

I agree with her statement about people being brought up by cults not being able to be judged by the standards of normal society because they have no idea how to operate in it (and for those of you who may disagree, please explain to me your reason for disagreement, for I feel this is a cult, they've take radical religious ideas and created a cut off community, sounds culty to me)


>My question is though that if polygamy is in fact illegal and children arebeing explioted, why isn't the federal government in there? or the RCMP?
I'll tell you why, because this "commune" is basically an orgy dominanted by the men to subjugate and debase the women in to doing what they want...and the reason the government won't get involved is because the commune is
opperating under the guise of religion and the government thinks by actingit'll open up a can of worms and...Oh wait I forgot there is a loophole that says it is okay because the marriages are done only by their church and not through proper legal channels
...I'm sure this kind of thing happens all over the world and governments turn a blind eye to it....instead having big money wasters like the war on drugs and terrorism...god forbid we should funnel money to stop communes like these from operating that are an actual and real threat against our most vulnerable groups (i.e. women and children)

Also, where in this are our so-called protector's of family rights, i.e.REAL women, the catholic chuch, the christian coalition...who are ususally so vocal about anything that may infringe upon their version of "family values"...seems to me that this is far more dire a situation then divorce, gay marriage or abortion, who's protecting the innocents at this dirty commune?

Here is another link on this story for any who are interested:

http://www.polygamyinfo.com/plygmedia%2 ... vansun.htm



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You must be the change you wish to see in the world. - Mahatma Gandhi

To Dr. Caleb and Calumny and to nearly everyone else I have spoken to about this: Its nice that everyone is treating this like a joke, I guess these women and children don't really matter in this society.

I believe that there are a great deal of ills going in on in our society that the public on a whole feels more comfortable ignoring by telling themselves that they are interested in "more important issues" so they can ignore situations like this...very much like our government does.

I believe we have no right to judge whether this is a 'cult' or whether it is 'dirty' or whether this is 'abuse'. Women have been married as young as 13, even in our society. Polygamous marriage has also been around longer than Monagamous. A woman of 15 might be considered 'old' by some standards. Some consider Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada a 'cult' leader, some consider him more 'christian' than the Pope.<p> You have no right to measure me by your moral ruler than you have to judge them. Show me these women and children are being abused - in the strictest sense of the law, not by some arbitrary moral code - and I'll show outrage. If it's simply because it doesn't fit your mould of decency, too bad. If what is happening is according to their moral code, and they are fine with it, leave it alone.<p> <p>---<br>"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill <br />

I guess that makes you feel all better inside to tell yourself that doesn't it Dr. Caleb?

and as far as you saying that I'm judging them, I've seen you pass some pretty harsh judgments on other people (i.e. tha Canadaian and American governments just to name two)

I was under the impression that we had laws in this contry and we were supposed to follow them, i didn't realize the cover of religion was a complete protective coat against everything, Isuppose you think it harsh a me to criticize the Catholic Church for trying to cover up years of child abuse.



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You must be the change you wish to see in the world. - Mahatma Gandhi

Also Caleb, I'm just tryin to get an issue discussed, just because you don't beleive it to be valid doesn't mean it isn't...and if you wish to learn more about this commune there are several articles that can be read, as well there is also a documentary available on the town...

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You must be the change you wish to see in the world. - Mahatma Gandhi

<i>I'm just tryin to get an issue discussed</i><p> So am I, or I wouldn't have responded, nor would I have posted this story. I think it's a great topic. <p> <i>Isuppose you think it harsh a me to criticize the Catholic Church for trying to cover up years of child abuse. </i><p> You're putting words in my mouth that I have not said. That being said, the abuse in the Catholic Church may be a far sight worse than what is going on here. It may be exactally the same.<p> <i>just because you don't beleive it to be valid doesn't mean it isn't...</i><p> Never said it wasn't.<p> <i>and if you wish to learn more about this commune there are several articles that can be read, as well there is also a documentary available on the town...</i><p> I know that too. Show me something written by one of those people in the commune. Notice the first line of the above story? "they would be 'setting the record straight' about abuse they have allegedly been subjected to." See the word 'alleged'? That means nothing has been proven.<p> I have also not given you my thoughts on what I think of this, I only gave out what I think the other side of the story may be. We cannot make moral judgements on people's actions with only one side of the story. And giving my views on the actions of a government are are a far cry from a moral judgement on people's actions.<p> <p>---<br>"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill <br />

Based on the facts presented, it appears no one is treating this like a joke, as the B.C. Attorney General is investigating allegations pertaining to illegal goings on. I assume that if evidence of illegal activity, e.g., abuse against children or the female members of the community, is found, criminal charges will be laid.

As indicated by Dr. Caleb, the point is whether anything illegal has or is occurring, not our particular moral perspectives of the matter.

I apologise if my original comment caused offense. It was not intended to do so, or make light of the situation.

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"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).

I thought the wife thing quite funny, and quite true. No offence taken, at least by me.


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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill

"I have also not given you my thoughts on what I think of this, I only gave out what I think the other side of the story may be. We cannot make moral judgements on people's actions with only one side of the story. And giving my views on the actions of a government are are a far cry from a moral judgement on people's actions."

Who do you think governments are made up of....people,
and whether you believe it or not, this is not merely a moral judgment, I try very hard not to impose my set of beliefs on others, and I do not wish to do that under any circumstance if possible...but it is widely held that victims of abuse are often the first to defend their abusers and the first to try to dissuade those that are investigating their abuse, and I believe this denial my be compounded by the fact that these people have very little contact with people other then the member of the sect, my concern is that their voices are not being heard...we are so concern with issues broader then this (ie. the war in Iraq, Canadian sovereignty, etc.) that I fear that our most vulnerable are falling through the cracks.

A thanks to Calumny for mentioning that this commune is under investigation by the B.C Attourney Generals office, as it is

The above comment is mine.

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You must be the change you wish to see in the world. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cult

--A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. ---

Yeah I suppose that it's not a cult (???)

As for the "wife comment”:

It was an silly little comment whether you meant it to be or not.

Your issues with your wife are not relevant here and I would like you to ask her to make a comment regarding what you said about her in regards to this article. That would make for some interesting reading I am sure.

Dr Caleb...

You seem so committed sometimes on this site. Then you turn around and make comments like:

"I thought the wife thing quite funny, and quite true. No offence taken, at least by me."

How is anyone supposed to take the site, and your viewpoints seriously! How is it "quite true?" Please elaborate!

As for the issue:

Women ARE taken advantage of by men in all cultures around the world in some way BUT in Canada we are supposed to have equal rights for all.

From my understanding of this cult in BC, they are having young 13 year-old girls marry men minutes before meeting them. Having them give birth to children on average when under 18. Also...it is disgusting on my 'moral ruler' for the elder men to be eyeing-up the young women on the commune as future wives! Just as it is disgusting for men on any island anywhere to be eyeing-up girls that have barley traded in their dolls for make-up! Thirteen year olds may be able to sign their names to a petition, but are they able to actually comprehend what it is that they are signing when they have been told that what they are doing is the right way and the only way to avoid hell?

This is not a moral issue. It is an issue where men are actually using religion to live in a community where they can be self-appointed mayor's/dictators/emperors living by their own rules. The best example being their leader who has 26 wives and 80 children!

"The leader is good, the leader is great, I surrender my will as of this date."

Kinda figured <p> <i>I try very hard not to impose my set of beliefs on others, and I do not wish to do that under any circumstance if possible...</i><p> And from your first comment:<p> <i>I'll tell you why, because this "commune" is basically an orgy dominanted by the men to subjugate and debase the women in to doing what they want...</i><p> And from my first comment:<p> <i>This is why I dislike people making moral decisions for me. Usually, they get it wrong.</i><p> None of us knows what is going on in there, and to pass sentence on them prematurely does no one a service. I hate it whan it happens to me, and I'm sure they do too. That's kinda why I liked the idea of this whole subject; it's easy to get one's passions fired up, and we haven't done that around here for some time.<p> <p>---<br>"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill <br />