But in an interview Friday, the study's lead author said Haitians interviewed for the peer-reviewed survey did pinpoint Canadians as among those UN personnel who threatened them physically or sexually over the 22 months studied.
Full story here
http://tinyurl.com/mz8ym
Note: http://tinyurl.com/mz8ym
Canadian Troops In Haiti Accused Of Making Death, Rape Threats
Posted on Thursday, October 05 at 08:48 by rearguardContributed By
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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden
What's going on in Haiti is a brutal occupation. The legitimate elected government was overthrown with assistance from the USA, France, and Canada.
The troops know what's going down in Haiti, and they take their cues from their corrupt leaders. Given the lies used to justify the invasion, it's to be expected that they are behaving poorly.
Did you read the article? "The study. . .did not mention Canadians specifically, blaming only Brazilian and Jordanian troops for making threats."
"What's going on in Haiti is a brutal occupation."
According to whom? Aristide? The 'rebels'?
The one mitigating factor of this whole article - no one has been convicted of anything. Canadian soldiers have just as much right to be presumed innocent as everyone else.
Let's also take into account that the poorer the society, the more likely that kidnapping and extortion become a source of income. Let me know when someone is convicted, or even charged with something, and we'll discuss morality of our troops.
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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden
Kinda blows armyguy's rap about protecting civilians all to hell don't it
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Diogenes said:
"I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."
With regard to the occupation -<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=LKC&client=opera&rls=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=brutal+occupation+in+Haiti&spell=1">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&hs=LKC&client=opera&rls=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=brutal+occupation+in+Haiti&spell=1</a><br />
<br />
Your conditions for discussion are rigid and unrealistic, somewhat like the RCMP investigating their own <br />
<br />
and yes I did read the article, did you?<p>---<br>Diogenes said:<br />
"I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."
I don't see much mention of Canadians in Hati in your link, let alone charges. No Dio, you just arbitrarally convict them. No trial, no charges. They are automatically guilty, simply because they are soldiers. But, that is bad only if you are a civillian.
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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden
You seem to be stating that the Canadian military is immune from corruption despite seeing massive corruption in other related organizations, such as the the RCMP, CSIS, and most notably in the government itself which is the highest level in command of the troops.
It's as if you have extra thick rose colored glasses on with respect to anything Canada's military is up to.
Do you honestly think that successive "new" Canadian governments have been spending untold millions on Haiti just for the good of its people?
Do you honestly think that successive "new" Canadian governments have been spending untold millions on Afghanistan just for the good of its people?
What about spending money defending Canada????? I know you are well aware that Canada is being robbed blind and is becomming little more than the US of A's play toy. The highest levels of Canada's military (the current "new" government) is doing NOTHING to stop the destruction of Canada itself, and is instead using the troops to speed up the process.
If the highest levels of the military are actively taking part in the destruction of Canada as a sovereign state, then what message do you think is being send on down to the troops on the ground?
Leaders always lead by example, but look at the example the leaders are demonstrating to the troops - there's NO WAY that these massively corrupt signals are not having an affect right down to the lowest ranks.
Kinda sums up dc on any military topic.
See how quickly he turns ugly
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Diogenes said:
"I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."
DC:
“Canadian troops behave badly when drunk. Wow. I never would have guessed that”
Are we expected to accept this entry by Dr, Caleb as a genuine expression of surprise or pure sarcasm? If, as I suspect, it is both an admission troops drink to excess and behave badly and done in a back-handed manner which spurred my response.
And when I called him an apologist for it true to form, it is because of his carefully crafted responses.
Dr Caleb:
“Apologist? Because I want charges if there have been any breach of conduct?”
No dc not because you want charges for breaches of conduct, because of incongruence’s (implied non sequitors) it is because of your obvious pro military bias as seen in the following partial quote lifted from the article,
Dr. Caleb:
Did you read the article? "The study. . .did not mention Canadians specifically, blaming only Brazilian and Jordanian troops for making threats."
I say partial because of the immediate following paragraphs.
“But in an interview Friday, the study's lead author said Haitians interviewed for the peer-reviewed survey did pinpoint Canadians as among those UN personnel who threatened them physically or sexually over the 22 months studied.
"Canadians were definitely blamed for death threats and threats of physical and sexual violence," said Athena Kolbe, 30, an expert on Haiti who speaks Creole. She has visited Haiti often and is doing her master's degree at Wayne State University's School of Social Work, in Detroit.
One family was interviewed at their home in Delmas, an eastern suburb of the capital, Port-au-Prince.
"Canadian troops came to their house, and they said they were looking for (pro-Aristide) Lavalas chimeres, and threatened to kill the head of household, who was the father, if he didn't name names of people in their neighbourhood who were Lavalas chimeres or Lavalas supporters," Kolbe said by phone from San Francisco. (Chimeres is a Creole word meaning ``spooks'' and refers to armed groups funded by the pro-Aristide Lavalas movement.)
"And he refused to, because, as he told us, he didn't know anyone."
How did he recognize the soldiers were Canadians?
"From the flag on the uniform," Kolbe said.
How did he remember the incident so precisely?
"Because the family was traumatized by it."
That incident was alleged to have taken place around the time of Aristide's departure in February 2004.
In another incident, "one woman said a Canadian soldier tried to have sex with her, that this soldier was drunk and she didn't want to, and that he was threatening her and grabbing at her when she didn't want to," Kolbe said.
The woman was out with her friends near a Canadian base, on a street where drunk and off-duty Canadian soldiers in uniform tried to pick up local women.
"She tried to tell him she wasn't interested, but he spoke French and she spoke Creole, so she didn't think that he really got it, and he wouldn't stop holding on to her."
Of the women in the study who complained of sexual threats, drunk and off-duty Canadian and American soldiers were most often blamed as the perpetrators, Kolbe said. "But regarding Brazilian and Jordanian troops, a lot of the sexual threats were actually when they were on patrol."
As can be seen I am not the only one who notices a bias towards the military by the moderator
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Diogenes said:
"I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."
And you seem to be putting words in my mouth. Are these men guilty of acting stuipd while drunk? Of course. Been there myself and made an ass of the uniform in the process. Doesn't mean I threatened anyone's life or raped anyone's daughter or livestock. Especially since the article itself states that threats were not reportedly made by Canadians.
Show me anyone facing charges, and I'll let it go. But both you and Dio have already convicted these nameless men. Odds are, you're on the side of the extortionists and don't realize it. One part of that interview, on the first page. Do you see it RG? The part about what flag was on their chest?
"Do you honestly think that successive "new" Canadian governments have been spending untold millions on Haiti just for the good of its people?"
Since they don't have resources, and don't have oil - I'd say YES. Do you honestly think a Hatian born GG is going to send troops to her former home if she thought they were up to no good? Do you honestly think they would disrespect her on purpose?
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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden
Got it.
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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden
>How did he recognize the soldiers were Canadians?
>"From the flag on the uniform," Kolbe said.
That one. What colour was the flag on the uniform? That will tell me whether this story has any ring of truth to it. What type of patrol they were on also depends whether the story has any truth to it. But we aren't told the circumstances behind why the soldiers were there to be able to call 'bullshit', but I suspect that nothing has become of this incident not because someone is covering things up, but because the witnesses are lying.
" As can be seen I am not the only one who notices a bias towards the military by the moderator "
Still hung up that I have an opinion, and express it I see. When have I ever muted my opinons? Every Moderator has their own pet subjects. Milton's is 9/11. Susan's is the reason she started this site, and is the same as Catherine's. Mine is how people can get things so wrong by making false assumptions and using inductive logic without actually experiencing things for themselves. It only seems my opinions are what you and RG have problems with.
I won't take my government putting limits on my freedom of speech, and I respect you a little less every time you try it.
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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden
Au contraire Man Ami!
No hang ups on that score, certainly not about you HAVING an opinion> It is the colour of some of youropinions that I take issue with.
"When have I ever muted my opinons?"
Or paid the price for them either? Still hung up on the wrong aspect is see
"Every Moderator has their own pet subjects. Milton's is 9/11. Susan's is the reason she started this site, and is the same as Catherine's. Mine is how people can get things so wrong by making false assumptions and using inductive logic without actually experiencing things for themselves."
On this we agree in part and perhaps that is what I am 'on you' Are you so free of false assumptions that you have licence to violate the very concept you claim to champion?
It only seems my opinions are what you and RG have problems with.
Not quite.
Some of your opinions, not all.
"I won't take my government putting limits on my freedom of speech,"
You are starting to mimic warlock's sig with that rap. Your freedom of speach also allows you to show yourself as one with little restraint in some areas and explode like some meth addicted halfwit with profanities when you take offence that was not give.
"..and I respect you a little less every time you try it"
Again we have common ground with regard to respect.
You lost the greater partof mine with that explosion.
Having said that
there are other topics where you show valuable insight.
as far as moderators and their particular subject they champion yours will include a style that set off this exchange. Do not minimize with glibness that at least two of your readers have called you on what they have. that is where you loose more repect.
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Diogenes said:
"I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."
"It is the colour of some of youropinions that I take issue with."
And therein lies the start of debate. But you haven't started yet. We both know we cannot change the opinions of one another which have been freely formed by oneself. I have put forth alternates to this "story", yet all anyone had done is try to bring to the forefront my 'ugly' side. (Which has been unsuccessful to this point).
"Or paid the price for them either?"
So, I must pay a price for having an opinion? If by that you mean bleeding on forgien soil in the service of my country, then I have paid it.
"Still hung up on the wrong aspect is see"
No, I think I got the gist of your crack; "As can be seen I am not the only one who notices a bias towards the military by the moderator ." Like somehow my being a moderator means I am not allowed to have a bias towards the military. Pretty clear to me.
"Are you so free of false assumptions that you have licence to violate the very concept you claim to champion?"
Never claimed to be. And what causes do I champion that I have violated in your eyes? Where are my false assumptions?
"You are starting to mimic warlock's sig with that rap. "
Warlock is not always wrong. As you are quick to point out with quotes from Chomsky.
"Your freedom of speach also allows you to show yourself as one with little restraint in some areas and explode like some meth addicted halfwit with profanities when you take offence that was not give."
See, you still will not accept an apology, and you further judge me based on what you do not know. I laugh sardonically everytime you use the same profane language when replying to Warlock.
"Having said that there are other topics where you show valuable insight."
I appreciate that, and I acknowledge you as well provide some valuable information and insight. But since you can't reply to any of my posts whithout bringing 'that' up, I guess we're done here.
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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden