Monument Created For N.S. Burial Ground Of 1812 U.S. PoWs

Interesting story. But just like Can-Am relations today, they`re both friendly and hostile at times. Apparently, the day before a major battle on the Niagara frontier, Brtish and Canadian soldiers sat down with American soldiers and actually had dinner together, discussing their coming duties to their respective countries, meaning that they`d be bitter enemies the next day. And some British generals who fought in Europe against Napoleon stated that the Battle of Lundy`s Lane was the bloodiest they`d ever seen. Yes, I say it is good to preserve this history. But man, I just wish we could all get along.

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Dave Ruston

"But man, I just wish we could all get along."

Thanks Rodney (? - joking), so do I. But After being set upon for a spell and idly observing, some of us "evil" Americans have finally chosen to begin to fight back. I'll have dinner with you some day, Dave. I'll even buy you dinner.

I won't bother getting into historical accounts re 1812 or before. Depending on whether it is to a Canadian's advantage or disadvantage Canadians claim the actors as either British, or as Canadian.

Candians tell their wide eyed younguns to this very day while "educating" them in "Canadiana" that even waaaaaaay back then America was an evil superpower with nukes, B-52s, and tanks as far as the eye can see attempting to deeply integrate (yet to be established) Canada, and attempting to invade the sovereignity of a tiny band of fearless, brave "Canadian settlers", as opposed to a handful of American settlers with hats and muskets in hand fighting the well financed and equipped imperialist British Empire (you). Nope. Not going there. That would be endless, and if you reply, I'll leave you with the last word!!!

Yes, depending upon if the discussed "activity" was indeed one to be proud of, or to actually be ashamed of...those heroes/villains were described as Canadian patriots, or British Troops. Completely and totally interchangeable depending on which company you find yourselves in, or how you wish to appear to them.

I believe the Canadian propensity for tall tales began with this very tendency to promote the concept of "it's YOUR story...tell it like YOU want to!" Hence after a few generations Canadian history was formed. Like Canadians wanted it to be. And children today in Canada believe proud Canadian patriots burned and sacked Washington (but didn't return to Canada with all those prisoners and slaves - it was the British Troops who did that, eh). Every defeat at the hands of the evil, conquering American hordes was a defeat of those British Troops (if we don't wish to admit defeat to avoid possible humiliation) or a defeat of Patriotic Canadians (if we wish to invoke anger at the those evil "deeply integrating" Americans). And of course if the victory of the British Troops was an admirable one it was accomplished by Patriotic Canadians with nothing but pitchforks and snowballs to fight with, but if it was brutal and any "unsavoryness"(?) ocurred it was those bloody British Regulars again.

It sucks when you're an American hobbled with your country only being able to say you are who you are. Americans. No options, eh. Evil superpower or otherwise, lol. I do believe however according to Canadian folklore, that those evil conquering American hordes were in possession of illegal and internationally outlawed nuclear muskets...and their evil minions far outnumbered the poor patriotic Canadian waifs innocently defending themselves from within their snowforts.

I've seen the "historic" markers along the St. Lawrence River on the Canadian side. I've read Canadian accounts of our shared history of the period. I've had Canadian children describe to me the most "interesting" of tales about these events as was taught them by their "patriotic" parents/education system. I also politely kept my mouth shut as children are just that. Children. Who am I to burst some kids bubble when he/she's feeling all proud of their country. I thought it was neat to see kids all proud of their country. Having pride in one's own country is a good thing, special, and I wasn't about to play the role of the "grinch who stole Christmas" with any of those Canadian kids. No harm done after all, on a personal level. But it did help me to undertsnad the Canadian psyche. Why they are the way they are. Why they feel the way they feel. They've been subjected to this since birth. And it never stopped. And now they in turn go on to expand on the theme themselves.

Alsa, unfortunately there's a definite mean streak that comes out of some Canadian adults when they make claims, outrageous or otherwise, about things they "assume" to be "sensitive", or to be "sore spots" for Americans. With the mean-spirited intent to hurt. And there are a few of us those barbs may get a rise out of. Most of us know better, and allow them their "moment in the sun". It's all good. In the days of friendship long since past, we could take good natured ribbing and even seemed to be "allowed" to give a little in return. I wish the good old days were still around. But we're now trying to assist you in stopping deep integration.

In another time, and another place, Dave??? I'd buy you a Molson Canadian and a big fat juicy steak...a Canadian one at that, just to show my heart's in the right place. I wish you well there, Dave. Nice comments. Truly nice. thanks. I'm being serious, no tongue in cheek. Good stuff.

I wish we could all get along too. Its kind of disheartening being an American right now in the world, it seems like everybody hates us.

Even with all this condemnation from the United States of America Government, the load cries of anti-Americanism, I have only found Canadians feelings toward Americans disagreeable is when individual Americans and American Companies / Corporations take a anti-Canadian attitude of retaliatory action against Canadians outside of their own governments action.

Yes, it is true that some Canadians associate US Government policy with American citizens as a point of view by all. Some say that is becouse Americans re-elected the Bush administration. I hear the calls of anti-Americanism from the United States when Canadians stand up for their rights or express themselves rightfully or not. Yes even the firing of people in Canada for doing it. It is on every American Broadcast Station in the U.S. What I don’t hear is Americans denouncing American Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, Ambassadors, Broadcasters, and Announcers etc. for trashing, attacking or justifying Americans retaliating against Canadians and Canadian Businesses as anti-Canadian and detrimental to American foreign relations. Canada with its population of 9% of that of the United States of America is of no threat to American sovereignty by any means.

I work for an American Company in Canada. I asked if we could hang up a Canadian Flag in the manufacturing plant along side an American one. The answer I got was that someone from the United States might find it offencive or see it as a political statement so the answer was no.

Americans have to learn more about Canada and Canadians. Canadians are similar but not the sames as Americans. Canada is a Multi-Cultural society unlike its neighbor to the south the United States of America, which is self described as a Melting Pot society.

The concept of Canada as a Multi-Cultural society can be interpreted in different ways:

• Deceptively (as a sociological fact)

• Prescriptively (as ideology)

• From a political perspective (as policy)

• As a set of inter group dynamics (as process)

As fact, multiculturalism in Canada refers to the presence and the persistence of diverse racial and ethnic minorities who define themselves as different and who wish to remain so. Ideologically, multiculturalism consists of a relatively coherent set of ideas and ideals pertaining to the celebration of Canada’s cultural mosaic. Multiculturalism at the policy level is structured around the management of diversity through formal initiatives in the federal and provincial and municipal domains. Finally, multiculturalism is the process by which racial and ethnic minorities compete with central authorities for achievement of certain goals and aspirations. Thus, Canada has been largely free of racial tension. This explains why Canadians have a different way of looking at themselves
and the world around them, especially sociologically!

Another difference between us is that in the US it seems that the State Government trumps the Federal Government where as the Federal Government trumps the Provincal Government in Canada.

The matter of Canada/US relations, the Canadian people, it seems have been the losers and their wishes for their country have rarely been followed by those entrusted to express those wishes. It seems to suggest, too, that US leaders have always had, and expressed, a clear interest in subordinating Canadian wealth and freedom to the needs and wants of the USA.

Brief Constitutional & Military History of British North America since 1783


1783.09.20 Treaty of Paris: Britain recognised the independence of the United States of America; remaining British possessions in North America were:
• Newfoundland (1583)
• Nova Scotia (1713), including Cape Breton Island, and mainland territories later called New Brunswick
• Québec (1763), including territory later called Ontario
• Ile St. Jean (1769)
but the United States failed to keep its promises to Loyalists, most of whom settled in Canada, and Britain failed to surrender forts in the U.S. Northwest; Rupert's Land remained under the control and possession of the Hudson Bay Company
1783 Northwest Company was formed to compete with the Hudson's Bay Company
1784 New Brunswick and Cape Breton colonies separated from Nova Scotia after influx of Loyalists from the United States
1788 Captain John Meares established a Northwest Company fur trading post on the Pacific Coast (later British Columbia); the Spanish seized the area in 1779 based on original discovery in 1775, but yielded their claims a year later
1791.12.26 Constitutional Act divided Quebec at the Ottawa River into Upper Canada (Ontario), and Lower Canada (Quebec)
1794.11.19 Jay's Treaty stipulated that Britain would evacuate western forts in the United States by 1 June 1796, and that the U.S. and Britain would guarantee free commercial access to the Mississippi River and both sides of the border
1798 Ile St. Jean renamed Prince Edward Island for Edward, Duke of Kent
1811 Red River Colony established in Winnipeg Basin (also known as Selkirk Grant or Assinoboia)
1812.06.18 War of 1812: taking advantage of British embroilment in the war against Napoleon, the United States declared war and invaded Canada; the war was a stalemate
1814.12.24 Treaty of Ghent ended War of 1812 establishing status quo ante bellum and returning all captured territory
1820 Cape Breton Island returned to Nova Scotia jurisdiction
1821 Hudson Bay Company and North West Company merged
1836 Hudson Bay Company assumed control of Red River Colony
1837-38 rebellions in Upper and Lower Canada

1839 Aroostook War over the international boundary between Maine and New Brunswick
1841.02.10 Act of Union reunited Upper and Lower Canada as Province of Canada under one governor and legislature
1842.08.09 Ashburton-Webster Treaty settled British North America-United States boundaries disputes which had remained in doubt after the Treat of Ghent, especially the New Brunswick-Maine boundary
1846.06.15 Oregon Treaty defined United States-British North America boundary west of the Rocky Mountains
1848 Province of Canada granted responsible government (control of domestic affairs)
1849 Vancouver Island Colony established on Pacific Coast
1851 responsible government granted to Prince Edward Island
1854 responsible government granted to New Brunswick
1855 responsible government granted to Newfoundland (representative government had been established in 1832)
1858 after the Fraser River gold rush of 1856, Vancouver Island Colony annexed New Caledonia on the mainland from the Hudson Bay Company to form the British Columbia Crown Colony
1866 Fenian Raids from the United States had the effect of hastening popular acceptance of Confederation:
1867.03.29 British North America Act confederated Province of Canada, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia as the Dominion of Canada with a parliamentary system modelled on the British, and the Province of Canada divided into two new provinces of Ontario and Quebec (former Upper and Lower Canada)
1869.11.19 Canada purchased Rupert's Land (which became the Northwest Territories) from Hudson Bay Company (royal assent 23 June 1870), less some 2.8 million hectares of farmland in the prairies and certain land around trading posts which remained HBC territory

1870.07.15 Manitoba admitted as the fifth province of the Dominion of Canada, absorbing the former Red River Colony

1871.05.16 British Columbia Colony admitted to Dominion of Canada as sixth province
1873.06.26 Prince Edward Island Colony joined Dominion of Canada as seventh province
1880.07.31 United Kingdom transferred all adjacent territories (Arctic islands north of mainland Northwest Territories) except Newfoundland to Canada
1882 Alberta (named for Princess Louise Caroline Alberta), Saskatchewan and Athabaska established as separate districts of Northwest Territories

1898 Yukon Territory separated from Northwest Territories after Klondike gold rush
1905.09.01 Alberta and Saskatchewan (the latter formed by union of Saskatchewan and Athabaska Districts) joined Dominion of Canada as eighth and ninth provinces
1908 Newfoundland became a Dominion
1914.08.04 First World War: British declaration of war on Germany automatically involved Canada and the rest of the Empire; the Canadian war effort won Canada a greater degree of autonomy from Britain and a modest role in the peace process, but resulting Franco-English tensions in Canada produced a country reluctant to take on international responsibilities
1927.03.01 after 25-year dispute between Quebec and Newfoundland, Labrador boundary established
1931.12.11 after pressure at the 1926 and 1930 Imperial Conferences, the Statute of Westminster gave Canada, Newfoundland (and the other Dominions -- Australia, New Zealand, Union of South Africa, Eire) full and complete autonomy within the British Commonwealth, including control of foreign and domestic affairs and representation in the League of Nations; the constitutional status of the British Crown in the Dominions remained unresolved, and by Canadian consent the amendment or repeal of the British North America Acts (1867-1930) remained the preserve of the British Parliament until 1982
1934.02.16 due to economic collapse Newfoundland reverted to status of Crown Colony after 80 years of self-government
1939.09.10 Second World War: Canada declared war on Germany ten days after Britain
1949.03.31 Newfoundland (with Labrador) became tenth province of Canada
1982.04.17 Constitution Act "patriated" Canada's organic law, retaining Elizabeth II as "Queen of Canada"

1999 Nunavut Territory separated from eastern part of Northwest Territories

I don't hate Americans just your Government policies and attitudes. I also believe that this is also the feeling of the majority of the worlds people as well. They say that in a democracy the Government expresses the ideal, wants and desires of the majority of its people. It is at times hard not to believe this but life has shown me that this is not the case at all times and all things.

What I do know is an unspoken truth and fact is this "One must respect a person, religion, culture or thing before one can begin to understand them and empathy" Actions speak loader then words. Knowledge is the key to all understanding.


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REALITY IS TWO THIRDS OF WHAT WE PROCIEVE REALITY TO BE

DIFFICULT DECISIONS ARE A MATTER OF RANK

I think, to put it all into some sort of perspective, the American Rebellion is likely the only middle-class revolution that has occurred in the world. The American Revolution wasn't about "workers of the world unite.....". It was about American merchants not wanting to share with Britain the resources of the continent. All else flows from this.....

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RickW

I really don't understand why you waste your time in this manner. Change most of the Canada references in your post to U.S. and change a few bits and pieces around and your post would not make any less sense than it does now.

For a person who complains about ill-feeling towards the U.S., you aren't contributing much to improve what ill-feeling might exist.

But, maybe that's the point?

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"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).

Darvin, I watch a few U.S. 'Trading Spaces' types shows (or at least, am in the room when my wife is watching them.). Could I hate any of these people? Well, no.

Could I hate any of the people on Dr. Phil or similar shows trying to do something o improve themselves, their communities and/or the lives of young people, etc.? Well, no.

Do I look at any of the people on the show or in an audience and "hate" them because some support a government which has taken actions I may question? Well, no.

I think if I started hating these people, I'd have to start hating myself because really, I'm no different than most of them.

I have no desire to hate myself.

A number of recent contributors have tried to describe Vive as a hate site and cited numerous examples of how peoples minds can be manipulated through the use of slogans, creation of an 'enemy', etc. The 'hate site' label is absurd, however the other points re: manipulation are quite valid.

So along these lines, I wonder how many U.S. citizens have wondered if this is exactly what may be happening to them, orchestrated by forces in their own nation?

I mean, if you can create an atmosphere in which a nation is forced to build walls around itself for protection against a world that 'hates' it and encourage the nation's citizens to feel fearful, hated and just generally unappreciated by those people most citizens are led to believe they're 'helping', wouldn't that possibly enable you to manipulate those citizen's thoughts and minds.

If U.S. citizens can be convinved most of the world misunderstands their motives, judges them unfairly and demonstrates what seems irrational anger and or hatred towards them, well, this might be advantageous to some who can then play on these feelings for whatever their purpose is.

Ah, sounds too conspiratorial though.

Anyway, rest assured that while I may not agree with every U.S. citizen's political views, there aren't any I hate. I may hate actions taken in the name of the U.S. however, I don't confuse this with those folks who are happy as pie with their new updated rec room.



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"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).

Canada did not invade the United States after declaring War with Great Britain nor did Canadians attack or invade the United States of America. But it did defend itself against the United States of America. And it also shows that Canada was not in any way dependent on the United States of America for its existence in this World. As History proves is that the United States of America has been Canada's greatest Threat historically!

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REALITY IS TWO THIRDS OF WHAT WE PROCIEVE REALITY TO BE

DIFFICULT DECISIONS ARE A MATTER OF RANK

My American friends, we don`t hate you, or want to hate you. We only want our sovereignty respected and a return to an era where we can truly boast about having the world`s longest undefended border. I think, if it`s just people vs people, Canadians and Americans are the best of friends. But like it has been pointed out countless times, if our government doesn`t kiss the US government`s ass, then we`re suddenly America`s biggest enemy, harbouring terrorists, not pulling our weight, and as people like Ann Coulter put it, 'Lucky that America lets Canada live on the same continent with them.' Canada over the years has most certainly pulled it`s weight. Just because we reject going to Iraq doesn`t make us America`s enemy. Nor does asserting our own sovereignty make us America`s enemy. But anon, that dinner you offer, perhaps one day?

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Dave Ruston

"Canada did not invade the United States after declaring War with Great Britain nor did Canadians attack or invade the United States of America. But it did defend itself against the United States of America."

Interchangeable depending upon the point you want to make. Must be nice to be able to suck and blow at the same time, eh.

Try this on for size...

Britain did not invade the United States after declaring war with great Britain nor did Britons attack or invade the United States of America. But it did defend itself against the United States of America.

Or better yet...

Britain did not invade the United States after declaring War with Canada, nor did Britons attack or invade the United States of America. But it did defend itself against the United States of America.

Well, now. See how convenient that is? Sweet deal being able to suck and blow all at the same time, eh? I have no doubts that the first option of the three (your given and my quoted option)is your absolute hands down favorite, and the one which you will no doubt choose to pass on to generation after generation as has always been the case, and which you were most likey taught to regurgitate upon demand to interested parties. It's okay. I'm not angry as some here seem to be. I accept that you prefer to tell it in the manner which best portrays your beloved country. I have no quarrel at all with that. That is what was pointed out very clearly. And you want to debate. Okay, you win your debate. Put whatever descriptive nouns your wish wherver you wish and teach it the Canadian school system. It IS after all your school system. Just don't expect people not to look at you a bit oddly outside of Canada's borders when the tales are repeated. The British are just as confused as we are, and the French as well, but that's okay. It IS your story, eh.

Historically speaking of course. Not to offend anyone. The only thing in the above which is concrete is where the United States of America is mentioned (I somehow doubt you could get away with inserting China, or Dijabouti in place of America as easily). Works well for your purposes, eh? Sweet deal, eh? It's your story after all so tell it like ya wanna!!! Yup. And the choir sang on...

Take a deep breath...now suck/blow...no, blow/suck...now...BOTH...TOGETHER...all at the same time...all together now...hey...ummm...excuse me, but...what are those strange noises??? Are you finding it hard to breathe doing that??? Or what??? Do you need help???
Should I call 911 for you???

It's okay Darv...appears they still love you. Been listening to too much Al Jazeera and FranCanCorp media lately, eh? Getting some fresh air does wonders. And we still like you too Darv, so don't worry.

Dave. That offer goes. I mean it. I'll be around from time to time. Anyone who sidesteps the bu**sh** routine for a moment to allow themselves the luxury of making a decnet, caring, human statement is okay in my book. We're obviously never going to agree on everything, but then who does in this world? And why should it mean people can't be friends? Someday I'll have to hunt ya down and smack you upside the head with a big, taf, juicy, Alberta T-Bone and then hit you right between the eyes with a cold Molson Canadian! ...you know us obnoxious Americans, lol...we couldn't merely serve it to you "nicely"...no, Dave, I'll not think ill of you at all. Nada. On my headstone..."Was nasty to all who crossed his path, but for one...Dave Ruston, decent, proud Canadian".