Elsewhere, Toyota Camrys and Corollas and Honda Accords and Civics have become the cars of choice of the American middle classes amid rising petrol prices and environmental concerns.
But in Detroit, where Henry Ford built his first mass-production plant for his T-model Ford and where Ford and GM retain their headquarters, mid-sized and small cars are rare.
Of course, few of the 900,000 or so residents of Detroit proper work in the car assembly plants in the small nearby towns and communities. But perhaps there's a sense of solidarity with the workers and their growing problems.
At those plants, working hearts are beating ever fainter: a little over a week ago, GM, in the face of a $US4.5 billion ($6 billion) loss in the first nine months of this year, announced it would close nine assembly plants in North America by the end of 2007 and 30,000 jobs would have to go as a result.
A week before that, Ford announced it would slash 4000 white-collar jobs next year, savagely thinning its ranks of middle managers by more than 10 per cent. Ford refused this week to deny reports that it was planning to close five plants in the US, Canada and Mexico next year, and most analysts believe these closures are inevitable.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/gm-reaches-end-of-the-line-as-symbol-of-american-might/2005/12/09/1134086805531.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap5
[Proofreader's note: this article was edited for spelling and typos on December 11, 2005]
Note: http://www.smh.com.au/n...
GM Reaches End Of The Line As Symbol Of American Might
Posted on Saturday, December 10 at 14:56 by jensonjContributed By
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It is impossible to compete when private health care adds $1400 to the price of every car--they lose money on the smallest cars.
The Japanese have made a name for themselves so short of improving their products in the smaller categories, free-trade with Japan should probably be scrapped if the big three want to survive. Japan is very protectionist and only ideology prevents America from challenging them.
Ford and Chryser are nowhere near being as reliable as the Japanese were when they got good in the mid-size category , but GM isn't actually that bad at all with their full-size cars IMO.
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"A Liberal is someone who refuses to take his own side in a fight".
-Robert Frost
Au Contraire! Clever Marketing by Asian manufacturers! Consult actual studies on reliability and ownership satisfaction, and you'll find Ford consistently on top!
The Ford Focus and Ka are remarkable small cars, sold in many countries. The Ford Mondeo is a fantastic mid sized that is also very high on the reliablity and satisfaction lists. And GM doesn't make a reliable full sized any more, and are out of the small and 'city' car markets in Europe. The only European GM model that is well liked is the 'Voxell/Holden' division out of Austraillia.
The Impala is Wrong wheel drive, the big Buicks are pretty much gone or boring. The Chrysler 300, 300M aren't reliable enough in high usage applications. The Ford Crown Victoria (made in Canada!!) is still outselling both GM and Chrysler in the Taxi and Police markets. Those markets in Europe are owned by Mercedes, and Ford.
The Lincon Town Car owns the Limosine market in North America.
GM has priced themselves out of the market, with a year of 'factory pricing' on cars. They are selling quite a few units, but not making any money on them. The only GM division that is making money, is the Health Care side!
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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill
Frank
--The Ford Focus is very unreliable if you consult with The Lemon Aid Guide or Consumers Reports--it tops the charts in handling but even the dated chevy cavalier is listed as more reliable. GM loses $600 for every Sunfire or Cavalier it sells, but
--The Ford Mondeo is not sold in North America and the only incarnation you can get it in here is the Jaguar X-Type which is listed as unreliable and overpriced to boot.
--The Crown Victoria is no longer sold in Canada. The Mercury Grand Marquis is and it is a great car for seniors but they'll never sell to younger people enough to improve profits though I'd buy one. I have relatives who own a 95' Crown Vic LX and it is very nice.
--You didn't mention the Chrysler 300 replaced the 300M, and is now a rear drive, very sexy and selling very well--I just meant its reliability wasn't great yet but it too is assembled in Canada and I'd buy one.
"The Impala is Wrong wheel drive, the big Buicks are pretty much gone or boring."
--The Impala is a now considered a full-size car, the Malibu a mid-size and the smaller one a small-size. It seems like the manufacturers have redfined the term "full size".
--All buicks except the new Allure and the other new one are boring. The Buick Allure just needs a bit better handling and it is fine IMO.
--I would agree ftont-wheel drive is not the best but many live in cities and don't need rear-drive cars. In Canada you can't drive that fast, but I see your point.
That said, I think GM discounted because they are desperately trying to compete with the Japanese Big-3 killers that cause GM to be overlooked, the Toyota Camry, (assembled in Bowling Green Kentucky) Honda Accord (forget) and Toyota Corolla (assembled in Canada).
Those 3 cars are also front-wheel drive and it doesn't hurt them. The new Impala will give you basically what a Camry or Accord gives you with a bit less refinement for nearly $10,000 less. It also has much more trunk space and leg room, and used to seat 6--but now has pretty nice faux wood and the sportier shifter.
As for the Grand Prix, it could use a makeover in the interior perhaps but handles as a front-drive nearly as well as a BMW rear-drive.
The Allure is very spiffy and just needs better handling.
GM also has the Pontiac Vibe crossover vehicle which is very reliable and nearly identical to the Toyota Matrix.
The Ford 500 had better sell well for Ford's sake. But can that or any Chrysler or GM compete with the mid-size and full-size Japanese?
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"A Liberal is someone who refuses to take his own side in a fight".
-Robert Frost
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"A Liberal is someone who refuses to take his own side in a fight".
-Robert Frost
Oh but wait, that means they will be closing down plants in Canada too and putting people out of work…
Those Bastards!
The GM Oshawa 1 and 2 plants have both won the highest quality awards from JD Power & Associates over the last few years.
Japanese cars have plateaued in the last 10 years as the manufacturers are now lazy....Lexus is still great however, though their airbags are mean.
Sad that when the European manufacturers gave up in North America for one of many reasons, (and I am talking of FIAT, PEUGEOT, ROOTES GROUP, CITROEN, LANCIA, RENAULT, LADA, SKODA, BMC (I refer to Morris/Austin/Wolseley/Riley (and even GM and FORD's German and British products like Vauxhall and Open and Zephyr and Taunus), the Oriental manufacturers took over that market share. GM, Ford and Chrysler were incapable or unwilling to consider smaller cars. I wonder why?
Was it perhaps influence from the oil patch? Was it the idea of more comfort? Was it the typical American view: We are the best, or "bigger is better"? Was it a lack of concern for energy efficiency? Or was it a combination of all these?
Go to Europe and see how these manufacturers now produce quality cars that run on the smell of gasoline or diesel, and even use biodiesel. You do not see a lot of Oriental cars in Europe.
Eventually, they (Toyota, Nissan, Honda and Mazda at first, and then Hyundai much later) built branch plants in North America (the reverse situation from the past). As a result, the whole concept of "domestic cars" and "import cars" has now become a farce.
My whole family (with 4 married children) have nothing but Toyotas and Nissans. I am the only onw with the following: 1997 Nissan Altima, 1986 Chevrolet Nova (a.k.a. the California Toyota Corolla) and a 1992 Ford F-150 pick up. I would not touch a GM product with a 3 metre pole.
I don't fall for the hype. I deal in facts. When the guy down the road who just bought a new Toyota, has a 'courtesy car' from the dealer more than he has his new car, I don't buy the 'more reliable' line.
"I'd like to hear other "posters" experiences."
I've got 2 made in Canada cars. A 1992 Ford Crown Victoria, and an '03 Mercury Marauder. My 1992 is only winter driven, and with a fresh clear coat, would look like it just rolled out of the factory. No rust, and I've only spent about $2000 in maintainence (other than regular) in the last 300,000 kms and 15 years.
No Toyota could do that.
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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill
<br />
It all depends on who you ask. If you look at the Top Gear 2005 survey, they say different. And that list was compiled by owners. Just like if you consult Car & Liar's 'facts' they again say differently. But, the Ford Focus has been in their top 10 lists since it's introduction.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.topgear.com/drives/B4/B9/">http://www.topgear.com/drives/B4/B9/</a><br />
<br />
Here, Top Gear gives the Focus a 4 star new, and 5 star used 'buy' rating.<br />
<br />
"--The Crown Victoria is no longer sold in Canada. The Mercury Grand Marquis is and it is a great car for seniors"<br />
<br />
It is, just commercial sales (Police and Taxi) only. you can't buy one in a showroom, but you can order a civillian version from the States. (?) Made in Canada, but you have to get a US model (??)<br />
<br />
*Seniors*!! You calling me a senior Perturbed?
<br />
"--You didn't mention the Chrysler 300 replaced the 300M, and is now a rear drive, very sexy and selling very well--I just meant its reliability wasn't great yet but it too is assembled in Canada and I'd buy one."<br />
<br />
No, I tried to stay on topic.
<br />
"...Those 3 cars are also front-wheel drive and it doesn't hurt them."<br />
<br />
No, a light car with a 6 banger is OK FWD. But put anything over 90KW/250 horse in it, and just try to keep it straight on accelleration, and not replace the CVJ's every 50,000km. Although, I'm told Cadillac have come a long way in the reliable, high powered FWD technology. That probabally translates down to Buick. (*sniff* Oldsmobile *sniff)<br />
<br />
"The Ford 500 had better sell well for Ford's sake. But can that or any Chrysler or GM compete with the mid-size and full-size Japanese?"<br />
<br />
I think it is doing very well. It's the only mid/full size with AWD, and has the best crash ratings of the mid size crowd. I think there are many North American cars that compete toe to toe with Asian models. In many ways, you can't compare something like a Acura RSX with a Focus ST. Or a Camry with a 500. <br />
<br />
Many people will cite that 'Japanese cars are more reliable', but I don't believe that. When I look for what I want in a car - safety, reliability and price - Japanese cars never win on ethier safety or price.<br />
<p>---<br>"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill<br />
<br />
From what I hear lately, the Peugots, Citroens and Renaults have been spontaously combusting in France.
<br />
No, seriously, look at the bottom 10 in the Top Gear survey:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/survey/last_10.shtml">http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/survey/last_10.shtml</a><br />
<br />
Now, aren't you glad those cars aren't here anymore!<p>---<br>"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill<br />
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Perception is two thirds of what we perceive reality to be.
Difficult decisions are a privilege of rank.
It only makes good business sence to sell it to the public as well.
I don't think you are relaying fact but your own brand of bias.
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Perception is two thirds of what we perceive reality to be.
Difficult decisions are a privilege of rank.