Court Orders U.S. To Repay All 5.3 Billion In Softwood Duties.

And if the US only repays $4.3 billion of duties illegally collected, instead of the legally required amount of $5.3 billion, they still owe $ 1.0 billion, right? That's elementary school arithmatic.

Now who will sue, from whom, and where, for that remaining amount that legally belongs to Canadian lumber producers?

Insanity indeed. Unfortunately, it is political insanity.

“Friday's ruling comes at the end of a week in which 2,500 forest workers were laid of in Quebec. Julian said the forestry downturn in Quebec throws into doubt the ability of the Harper government to pass its softwood agreement bill in Parliament. "This is very clearly now in Parliament's hands."

And if they do not pass it? What then? If the government of the day or their representatives sign a deal without prior authorization of parliament and it does not pass is the agreement then null & void or will the government simply pass it by “order in council”? There must be some precedent on this, but even the lumber industry seems to be saying “well a deals a deal” but we all know if its to the U.S. advantage that is not necessarily true!



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When you are up to your ass in alligators it is difficult to remember that the initial objective was to drain the swamp

"There must be some precedent on this, but even the lumber industry seems to be saying “well a deals a deal” but we all know if its to the U.S. advantage that is not necessarily true!"

Then it should not be true for Canada either when it comes to dealing with the United States government.

I think if we applied US logic to things such as electricity and petroleum agreements they'd be extremely upset.

To which we could quite justly reply: we are merely applying the standards and practices that you both use and insist others also use, now piss off.

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"and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

"The Weapon" - Rush

I'm no expert in parliamentary procedure or fine print on international agreements but it seems to me that in any agreement signed by Harper or Bush, there would have to be a "subject clause" stating that the agreement will not be binding if it is not passed by a majority vote in the house of commons and/or congress. Much like the subjects in a real estate transaction, the subjects in any multi-lateral deal must also be removed before the agreement can be binding. No?


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Everybody got to deviate from the norm

IF all MP's are properly briefed on this, and IF there is no interference or horse trading in Parliament itself from Harper and Emerson, I opine that it would be TREASONABLE (alternatively not in the interest of Canada) for anyone of them to agree to the bill.

We can hold that against any of them who will vote in favour of this sham bill.

Does the Court Order of the US Court of International Trade bind the US Government? I guess it does. Does it bind the Canadian Government? I guess it does not not (as Canada is a sovereign nation) but Canada should be forceful enough to cancel the deal NOW and draw the Bush regime to its legal obligation to pay $5.3 billion.

Having stated that, if this was only printed in the Vancouver Sun, how would the rest of Canada come to hear about this latest episode in the soap opera? How do the MP's from all over the country hear about this "good news"?

Friggen dollar sign bug . . . .sorry about that all. . .

Rural wrote:
"And if they do not pass it? What then? If the government of the day or their representatives sign a deal without prior authorization of parliament and it does not pass is the agreement then null & void or will the government simply pass it by “order in council”? There must be some precedent on this, but even the lumber industry seems to be saying “well a deals a deal” but we all know if its to the U.S. advantage that is not necessarily true!"

An Order in council is all this 'bill' has passed. First reading. yet, they are collecting the duties as of last Thursday.

Many moons ago, when an MP was made a cabinet minister, they would resign and run an a by-election in their own riding, because the mandate they were elected under had changed and their constituents would then be allowed to voice their approval or disapproval on the change to their MP. This was before WWII. And it was procedure (customary). Now, MP's regularally change parties without so much as a by-your-leave to their constituents.

Now, it wouldn't surprise me if we surrendered just when we have them beat, by an Order in Council. Last I heard, the bill would have passed anyway, but perhaps the BQ's postion changed now that 2500 jobs were lost in their ridings.

I note too, that 500 Million of the taxes the the US will keep go to the Fair Lumber Coalition. A nice war chest, for use in 7 years.

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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

The Bloc is propping this Bill up. If they pull their support on the next reading then is the Bill and thus the deal dead?

I'm still amazed that only the Sun has reported on this. Surely when we are vindicated by such a ruling the media could start questioning the logic of signing an agreement when ruling after ruling has gone our way.

Btw, one little gem that has escaped public scrutiny in this deal is the clause which allows the Americans to control our forest regulations and policies. Any change in forestry policy will have to be okayed by them. What country in the world other than Canada would agree to such terms?

I should mention, the Clause giving veto power to the US is called the Anti Circumvention Clause.

Burnaby, BC. – Peter Julian (Burnaby-New Westminster) says the recently implemented softwood agreement is directly responsible for over 2,500 jobs lost in Canada’s lumber industry and more job loss is imminent.

“Stephen Harper has provoked a melt-down in the softwood lumber industry by forcing through this sell-out. We have lost over 2,500 jobs in the first six days since the announcement of its entry into force”, said Julian. “David Emerson was warned that job loss would happen if they bullied this bad deal into place.”

The negative impact of the softwood agreement was predicted in Parliamentary hearings this summer in Ottawa. Expert witnesses predicted significant job loss and demonstrated that this agreement was not commercially viable for the softwood industry. It is clear the worst has come to pass.

Julian is calling for Bloc Quebecois MP’s to vote with the NDP to stop the sellout deal and to put into place immediately loan guarantees for companies and support for softwood communities.

“The Bloc is the sticking point. They have chosen short term political expediency over the interests of Québec. As the meltdown accelerates, provinces can no longer take action to protect their industry. Quebec is announcing changes in stumpage fees today that are illegal under the Harper-Bush softwood agreement.” said Julian. “How the US will react is anybody’s guess – but one thing is certain – this instability is going to mean more jobs lost in mills all across this country.”

Julian accused the Prime Minister of bending to the will of the US administration and botching the implementation of the deal.

“This government has been following George Bush’s policy rather than address the needs of softwood communities across Canada. What a mess – a double tax was slapped on all lumber shipped across the border on Thursday because of this deal," said Julian.


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gina

Yes theres a lot of arithmatic and facts to argue with, but remember this. We still have nearly 30% of the worlds most blaoted materialistic lumber market at the bottom of our hill. As long as we can keep the value-added processing in this country and focus on high quality products, we can only win. There are American consumers who will pay any price for quality, and many more that need wider door frames.

chop-chop!

Hal, Ottawa

Can you provide the source of the information regarding the Anti Circumvention Clause? I have been looking in bill C-24 but cannot find any reference to it.

Thanks