Ernst Zundel Sentenced To 5 Years For Holocaust Denial

The guy is an obvious nutcase and I have no sympathy for him, but jail will only make him a martyr among his brother idiots.

Ed Deak.

Why do you think Zundel is a nutcase - because he has been thrown in jail? If Zundel is a nutcase, then let's all just laugh at him instead.

By tossing Zundel and others in prison for expressing their dissenting views concerning what has clearly become historical dogma, it is very clear that the governments involved are taking dissenters of dogmatized history seriously - and that makes me wonder who the nutcases really are.

Normally when we see people being tossed in prison due to political dissent of any kind we all cry out about human rights violations, but when it comes to historical dissent conerning only the Holocaust, the hypocrisy is astonishing.

What will we see next, tossing 9/11 dissenters into prison because they too are "nutcases"?

We either must allow all dissent, or we must accept living in a world that arbitrarily limits what views we are allowed to express and what questions we're allowed to ask. I'll happily accept a world where Zundel's can speak freely, rather than live in a world where it is a crime to question whatever dogma is decreed to be off-limits.

Someone in class today asked -"Would he have been sentenced or would have anyone even have noticed him if he was disputing the numbers of dead gays or gypsies?"





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If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.

Having seen the last 6 months of the nazi regime from the inside and experienced and seen the consequences of Hitler's and his satellites' policies killing millions and ruining the lives of hundreds of millions for many years after the war, I would say that anybody who praises Hitler is a nutcase.

The issue here is not dissent, or even the exact number of Jews killed, including some of my friends, but anybody praising what the nazis were attempting to do. Unfortunately repeated by the communists and now the capitalists.

I've lost my Catholic family, my education and home, thanks to Hitler, was sold by my government into the German military, a wounded war veteran by 18, and a homeless refugee, in the lowest poverty, for 6 years after the war, so I have no sympathy for Zundel, or anybody who makes any excuses for any ideology advocating rule by any special interest sector. Including the now practicing Zionists, who are no better.

I used to be quite a chess player in my teens, but haven't touched a game since 1945 in memory of one of my best friends and chess partner, Peter Adam, murdered in Auschwitz.

Ed Deak.

Well said Ed.

Once again, experience trumps theory, much the same way an Ace takes out a deuce.

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"and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

"The Weapon" - Rush

"... I would say that anybody who praises Hitler is a nutcase."

I have no problem with you calling Ernst Zundel a nutcase. In fact you can call him whatever you want without fear of imprisonment. However while you're quick to denounce Zundel and call him names, you fail to denounce the wrongs that were done to him which is precisely what you say you vehemently oppose - and that in my view is hypocritical.

"The issue here is not dissent, or even the exact number of Jews killed, including some of my friends, but anybody praising what the nazis were attempting to do. Unfortunately repeated by the communists and now the capitalists."

The issue here is with allowing people to be imprisoned for their views alone. What those views are may be an issue, but is NOT the issue that I am opposing - don't confuse the two, which is what these "nutcases" in power want us to do.

BTW, you are suggesting that Zundel has been praising what Hitler was attempting to do but have not provided citations to back the suggestion up. Did Zundel really priase Hitler? No matter, assuming your suggestion is the case, to drive the hypocrisy of imprisoning Zundel home, I'll point out a lot of people have publicly praised G. W, Bush and the atrocities of his wars, yet none of them are being tossed into prisons for it.

"I've lost my Catholic family, my education and home, thanks to Hitler, was sold by my government into the German military, a wounded war veteran by 18, and a homeless refugee, in the lowest poverty, for 6 years after the war, so I have no sympathy for Zundel, or anybody who makes any excuses for any ideology advocating rule by any special interest sector. Including the now practicing Zionists, who are no better."

All the more reason to oppose what was done to Zundel and all the other political prisoners in the same category. You'd back up any other man who was treated in the same way had the views in question been different, so don't let emotions get in the way of what's wrong with the picture. As they say, two wrongs don't make a right. Using Nazi-like tactics to shut people up is not a good thing to do no matter what is being silenced. If you are free to denouce Zundel with your own views, then Zundel must have the exact same freedom to denounce whatever views he wishes to denounce.

"I used to be quite a chess player in my teens, but haven't touched a game since 1945 in memory of one of my best friends and chess partner, Peter Adam, murdered in Auschwitz."

Again, all the more reason to oppose what's being done to Zundel and all other people who have been decreed as criminals for their thoughts alone. You or your freinds could be next in line. For example, there are increasing attempts to link those who "deny" the obviously phony 9/11 story as being associated with "holocaust denial", and you know where the spin doctors want that association to go.

It seems clear to me that laws are only needed to protect lies, while the truth needs no such thing.

Everything Ed says he experienced may be true - I have no reason to doubt him, however if we believe in freedom, then we have to oppose the criminality of imprisoning people for their views no matter what those views may be.

I see your point rearguard. I had the same reflex action towards Zundel for years but since realizing that 911 was an inside job and that most of the uppercrust executives, scientists and politicians had to know this and yet do nothing and say nothing I have re-examined a number of events that I was sure I knew the truth about. Guess what, I only knew what I was told by the presstitutes and politutes. Now why would I believe anything that they have to say without thoroughly researching the issue for myself?

I agree, let him speak his peace, if he advocates murder then arrest him, otherwise leave him alone.

"if he advocates murder then arrest him"<br />
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I did my research too. If you go to Zundel's website to see just how much of a raving maniac he is you'll be very dissapointed.<br />
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What is very telling about Zundel's so-called trail in Germany, is that he was unable to argue much of anything in his defense, because to do so would mean submitting evidence that showed the official account of the so-called holocaust to be not entirely true, which in Germany is against the law to do. Basically, the prosecution only had to show that Zundel questioned the official holocaust account and that he disagreed with it in some way - the validity of Zundel's evidence was immaterial, and no matter how accurate or compelling his arguments are, it would only serve as evidence against Zundel! In other words, the truth could not acquit Zundel and incredibly could serve as evidence against him!<br />
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The primary evidence against Zundel was his American based website (from my understanding is now run by his wife who has US citizenship). There's absolutely nothing on that site that I could see that would condem a man to prison. If anyone can point out something horrible with what's on that website, please do so, I'd love to see it. Good luck. Here's the link <a href="http://www.zundelsite.org/">http://www.zundelsite.org/</a><br />
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I've been surfing the web for a few years now, and I've come across more than one website that was many times more threatening and full of hate than anything I could see on Zundel's website. In fact, I did not see ANYTHING threatening or hateful on Zundel's website at all - zippo.<br />
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Some of the things I see our own government doing scares me a hell of a lot more than anything Zundel's has said or done, yet no one goes to prison for it. The raping and pilaging of our environment is a global genocide in progress, yet it is virtually ignored and even in some cases encouraged by governments. The "war on terror" is another genocide in progress, and our own government is neck deep in it in Afghanistan. The list of disgusting crimes goes on and on, yet probably more resources has been spent chasing down and trapping Zundel than anything that has been done to stop the most horrific crimes unrivaled in all of our history.<br />
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Who cares about Zundel's thoughts about a nearly forgotten historical event when there's real actions causing real harm going on that threatens not only all of humanity, but the entire planet as we know it.<br />

Zundel is a moron, but if you don't believe in allowing him free speech then you don't believe in allowing free speech to anyone else. Freedom of speech applies to more than those whose opinions you agree with. A real test of ones tolerance and openness is how much they are willing to let the extreme opinions be heard. Everybody or nobody. A final note, the day we shut-up nutjobs like Zundel is the day we start to forget, his stupidity is needed so we are reminded of how disgusting humans can become.

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My freedom is more important than your great idea.
– Anonymous

<a href="http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=cNV&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Who+Bankrolled+Hitler%3F&spell=1">http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=cNV&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Who+Bankrolled+Hitler%3F&spell=1</a><br />
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For those who are so quick to make judgment on subject they have incomplete knowledge of!<br />
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When I read weak minded rantings from otherwise intelligent contributors I am puzzled.<br />
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How can these people I've come to respect be so far off course with their assertions?<br />
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To give sole credit or discredit to a figurehead defies all logic. My question is how do men and women become so enamored with hero worship<br />
I have seen the footage of hundreds if not thousands of Germans is some nether world trans enthusiastically cheering at Hitler rallies, are they not also culpable to the judgments heaped on one man?<br />
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Who was Hitlers Pope?<br />
The Vatican is not culpable?<br />
Who has clean hands that they can be holier than thou?<br />
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<p>---<br> [juris ignorantia est cum jus nostrum ignoramus]<br />
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it is ignorance of the law when we do not know our own rights" <br />
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lex ferenda

I agree - and allowing Germany to have such draconian anti-speech laws is only sowing the seeds for a whole new generation of immigration hating nazis, who are already gaining power there.

Anyone should be permitted to question any part of history. We all know it is written by the victors, and that it is an illusion. We know how barbaric the 1940's nazi regime was, from survivor testimony. But do you know the horrors of Dresden? The lack of need for the atomic bomb? The internment of Japanese civilians and confiscation of their property? The sinking of the French fleet by the British after the French surrendered? The financing of the Nazi war machine by the Bush family?

As for the Holocaust, we will never know how many died, and quibbling over or even throwing people in jail over the number is ludicrous.

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“The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous, the essential act of warfare is the destruction of the produce of human labour”

My, my, my, how many fair-weather free speechers there are among us freedom-loving Canadians! <br />
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I, also, have perused Zuendel's web site and found his writings to be anything but "lunatic". I became interested in this issue after my son brought home the transcripts of the Zuendel trials held in Toronto during the mid 1980. What passed as evidence made my hair curl. Still, Zuendel was convicted under the "false news" laws; which laws, and conviction, the Supreme Court of Canada overturned on appeal.<br />
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I think it to be a reasonable assumption that the great majority of contributers, readers, and lurkers of this web site are skeptics when it comes to governmental action and edicts. The most recent examples are the reasons given for the Iraqui war, the World Trade Centre collapse, in Canada the tax on income trusts, etc. which affected my wife and me directly.<br />
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Yet this same group of people, to a large measure, accepts as gospel what they have been "taught" about Germany and WWII.<br />
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There are two sides to every story as they say, and I'd like to offer, for those interested, a couple of books that are available on-line:<br />
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"Germany and England" by Nesta Webster, 1938.<br />
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"Witness to History" by Michael Walsh. (not sure of the publishing date, but after WWII.)<br />
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These books and others are available on-line at<br />
<a href="http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/wars">www.sweetliberty.org/issues/wars</a>, with which I have no connection whatsoever, but stumbled across during my searches.<br />
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Here's an interesting snippet of recent news: <br />
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A web site I frequent is Mathaba.net which is, I think, a pretty decent news-gathering/distribution site. <br />
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On this site the International Red Cross of Geneva, (IRC) Switzerland, is quoted as follows: (I am reciting from memory, the exact words my vary) 'During the Second World War the IRC had unrestricted access to all German concentration camps at any time. The IRC even had its own offices in some camps.'<br />
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This statement was made in conjunction with the IRC's limited and restricted access to the USA prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.<br />
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H.F. Wolff<br />
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Truth stands on its own, for all to see. Only lies require the protection of draconian measures to conceal them from the public's eye. <br />

As I said in the beginning, Zundel is a nutcase, but jailing him is making him a martyr, which does not endorse his jailing.

What you have to remember is that the European system of justice is the Roman, where police and the prosecutors are permitted to disclose all kinds of details to the public, the papers are full of sordid statements from all sides, before the trials and the judges are often screaming at the defendants.

Our British system may have a thousand faults, but nothing like the corruption of the European/Roman.

Ed Deak