A couple of examples? Well, how about - "...Cellucci said his country is "in prevention mode. We are doing everything in our power to prevent the next attack ... We cannot defend ourselves without Canada's help..."
Well, someone from the other side might have pointed out that perhaps the Americans ought to have thought of that a bit earlier - they have not been too noticeable in asking for Canada's approval or help the last 50 odd years before tearing off around the world creating their own terrorism by unprovoked aggression, bombing, and "regime change" (usually supporting military coups and replacing populist, democratic regimes with brutal dictatorships, from the butcher Pinochet in Argentina to last week's overthrow of Aristide in Haiti) - it's kind of childish to run around getting everyone angry at you, and then to come pleading to former friends for help!
But we know that isn't any particular argument - the US, while espousing childish policies and attitudes and understanding of what is going on in the world ("bring 'em on" or the awesome "they hate us because of our freedom and democracy"!!!!!), is hardly a child in power, and no more needs Canada's help militarily than the lion in the jungle needs the help of the hyena to hunt the wildebeest - it is just another example of Celluci's - speaking for America's - hypocrisy that they try this as an excuse to get Canada tagging along on their bandwagon of destruction - it is, in reality, Canada's once good name they are looking for, not our military strength.
Mr. Celluci goes on to warn your students - ":... Montreal, Toronto or Windsor could be targeted like Madrid..." - Mmm-hmmm. Someone speaking for Canada might have noted that the only countries being targeted by these supposed "terrorists" (we might also note there is a rather huge lack of firm knowledge about who these people are or what they actually want or expect to achieve - and American speculation on such things should be seen as no more than that - and hardly justification for the wars and bombing they want) have been those who joined the "coalition of the willing" to invade Iraq last year, which Canada did not. Such a speaker might have asked Celluci why Canada should thus put themselves directly in harm's way, actually inviting terrorist attacks, by declaring to the world that we support America (which most of us do not!)?
Such a speaker for Canada might even have gone back a few steps, and asked Celluci why exactly they stirred up the hornet's nest so thoroughly and unnecessarily last year in the first place by invading Iraq, a completely unprovoked and unjustified aggression, as many of us said then and almost everyone now knows was the case, since no WMD have been nor will be found, nor any link to the supposed Al Qaeda "terrorists" - as anyone knows, it's no big trick to smash the big hornet's nest off the branch - but it is a LOT trickier to avoid getting stung by the subsequent REALLY pissed off hornets - America and their "coalition" invited such anger, we did not - why should we join them now? Such a speaker might have pointed out that without this amazing American hubris, we would not now be in such danger from the enraged hornets - but then, that comment would take probably quite a lot of time to make fully, as the speaker would have to go back over at least the last 50 years of American history, and if he or she wanted to be thorough, all the way back to the genocide of the Native Americans that was their first notable act on this continent, starting from 500 years ago.
Mr. Celluci, if thus openly challenged, would undoubtedly point to 911 as the justification for everything America has been doing since then - but then our Canadian speaker, standing tall and proud and honest and brave and speaking for the world actually, might have looked Mr. Celluci straight in the eye, and asked for a direct answer as to why the American administration which he represented has been stonewalling any type of official, thorough investigation into the events of Sept. 11 2001, given the many unanswered questions about who actually perpetrated that terrible act, and the ongoing "war on terrorism" that the American government has been waging since then - with no proof of any sort about who the perpetrators were? Our Canadian speaker might then have pushed Mr. Celluci a bit further - the American government is huffing and puffing in mighty outrage about the terrorist attacks on 911, and claiming that everything it does is in response to those attacks - but our Canadian speaker might ask Mr. Celluci why he and his government seem to want to pretend that history begins on Sept. 11 2001, when most of the world understands history actually goes back quite a few years before that - that is, can Mr. Celluci or anyone else in the American government even acknowledge that just maybe those 911 attacks were themselves related to American violence and - let us be honest - political terrorism around the rest of the world for decades previously, and even though some 3,000 American lives were lost that terrible day, perhaps the hundreds of thousands or even millions of "rest-of-the-world" lives that the Americans have destroyed through endless acts of terrorism all around the world during the decades prior to 911 were seen as justification by others in the world for their attack on America??
Most of us normal people know how difficult it is to challenge the hulking schoolyard bully, and most of us never have to, being able to avoid the worst of such ravages through one means or another - but there comes a time when some of the bully's victims become so brutalised, so desperate, there is nothing left to lose - and then bad things happen in return for bad things. And although the bully inevitably screams in mock outrage about what happened to him, most observers understand that "he had it coming". Maybe, just maybe, a similar line of thought could be applied to 911 - that does not justify what happened, but perhaps it could point to a way for the future besides ever-escalating violence and "our guns and bombs are bigger than your guns and bombs" wherby such things could be prevented. If, of course, the American military-industrial-government complex actually wanted such violence to stop, which would go hand in hand with the end of most of their power and influence, which is rather undoubtedly based on guns and bombs and violence.
For we are going to have no peace in the world, if this insanity continues, this apparently endless escalation of violence and fear and retaliation - as Gandhi, I believe it was, noted, the only end result of the "an-eye-for-an-eye" policy is a world of blind people. If the Americans truly want to be leaders, they must stand up tall and strong and proud and say ENOUGH!!! Enough violence!!! We will now begin a War on War!!! And our first weapon will be Peace! NO MORE KILLING!!! (hahahaha - such a speaker would take those lines out of his speech, for fear of being locked up in the nearest mental hospital - peace?!?!?! What a crazy idea in this world at this time hahahahahaa - ask Mr. Celluci, examine his words - fear and war are the current policies-de-jour!!!)
Such a speaker, had he not yet been spirited away by CSIS on "suspicions of terrorist connections" to be handed over straightaway to the American Homeland Security people who were undoubtedy tagging along with Mr. Celuci, might have tried to get some answers from the American on exactly why Canadians should want to tie their cart to a horse that has got almost all of the world so very angry at them - a cart of Canadians that, until recently, had been quite respected around the world, and it is only during the last couple of decades, since Mulroney's shameful beginning of the process of selling out of this country, continued with enthusiasm by the Liberal regime of the past decade (the ONE exception being Chretien's refusal to join in the Iraq invasion last year), that the rest of the world has started losing respect for us, because of that closer relationship to the greatest, but most feared, country in the world. We have been, as the saying goes, living on past glories - but the rest of the world is starting to understand that those glories are indeed of the past, and the Canadian government has become, tragically, an American puppet, no longer to be trusted, rather than the beacon for freedom and justice we once aspired to be in the world.
Such a speaker might, in a moment of levity, have asked Mr. Celluci to speculate as to what would be the reaction of the American government if the Canadian ambassador to the US went to a prestigious American university and warned its students that Americans were doing some very bad things around the world, and they had all better wake up while there still was time to reverse their destructive course, and slow down their rampaging government, which was stirring up violence and hatred all around the world - had been, indeed, for most of the last century? The outrage in the government and press of that country at such a speech would, as we all know, be immense - yet few Canadians, certainly not in the government or media, seem offended that this war monger should come to a Canadian university spreading fear.
Such a speaker might ask Mr. Celluci how much less violence he thinks there would be in the world if there were no American-manufactured armaments for those who dealt in violence to use? How many more people would be alive, and living good lives, in Nicaragua, Honduras, Chile, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, East Timor, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Iraq, dozens of other countries, had their lives not been destroyed by American bombs and bullets through decades of unprovoked aggressions and interfering in the governments of other countries? (pick a number - start with 7 figures)
Such a speaker might ask Mr. Celluci why the American government, which professes to be a Christian government, is so determined to foster violence everywhere it goes, rather than peace?
Such a speaker might have pointed out that most Canadians were expecting a lot more for their country in this century than to be following the American war machine into space, or setting up biometric ID cards and having CSIS throwing Canadian citizens to the Americans to be tortured because their government has hitched their wagon to a rapidly falling star.
Indeed, Mr. Davenport, such a speaker might have said many, many things about the current direction of the American government, and why Canada should think long and hard about getting involved with such a government - but such a speaker was not there, and that is what has bothered me the most about this incident.
Surely you have done your students a great disservice by allowing this American pimp to come selling American fear and war on a Canadian university campus, with noone there to speak for Canada and Canadians and a sane world. Had there been a debate, where the many fallacies and lies of the American government might have been challenged and exposed, then inviting such a person as Mr. Celluci might have had some use - but it raises some serious questions that you would allow him this important forum to spread his fear and war-mongering unchallenged - as we know, high-ranking American officials, well-educated, speaking with the confidence of great power, can be persuasive with their stories, especially to young, fresh minds, perhaps inexperienced in the Machiavellian ways of the world, and without an equally strong countering voice, many of them undoubtedly left that session tragically and mistakenly supporting the American position, all ready to put the Canadian seal on missiles in space and bombs, bombs and more bombs and death and destruction in other poor countries, on the basis of scary, unfounded bogeyman stories. As we know, the great warlords - one thinks readily of Adolf Hitler - can be very persuasive speakers. That, as history repeatedly shows also, does not make them right - but they can cause a lot of destruction before being stopped - as the Americans are currently in the process of doing.
I am, as I said, most disappointed that such a thing would happen, and would encourage you to take steps to expose your students to more appropriate Canadian speakers with Canadian values in the future - names like Mel Hurtig, Paul Hellyer, Jack Layton, David Orchard come readily to mind, there are many others out there who would speak for Canada - and I do hope you will try to be more fair to your students - and our country and the world - in the future.
Dave Patterson
Prince of Songkla University
Hat Yai, Songkhla 90112
Thailand
CC: Paul Martin, Martin.P@parl.gc.ca
Wayne Easter, Easter.W@parl.gc.ca
Paul Celluci,ottawacomments@state.gov
Mel Hurtig mhurtig@telusplanet.net
Letters to the Editor, Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, National Post
see also: www.rudemacedon.ca.
Note: Canada could be next: C...
Martin.P@parl.gc.ca
Easter.W@parl.gc.ca
ottawacomments@state.gov
mhurtig@telusplanet.net
www.rudemacedon.ca

Not to mention that it even CC: Paul Martin and Paul Celluci. Would be nice to get any responses to his letter. Way to go Dave.
I wish we had Dave Patterson's email address so we all can send him some positive feedback and maybe thank him for speaking for the many Canadians who share his concern.
Kevin
Brilliant, well-written, and accurate. Dave Patterson did an amazing job of organizing all that information.
I wonder why these observations are so obvious to people like Dave and myself (and most of the others around Vive), and yet our esteemed "democratic" leader whose actions are supposed to reflect our collective will does not. Hmm, maybe we should either a) stop calling our country democratic, or b) elect a new leader.
And as for Cellucci... there's not much to say other than the fact that he's a creepy imperialist fascist (Note: I mean this in the ideological sense of the word, not necessarily the historical one.)
-KY
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Kory Yamashita
"What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
The latest Weapon of Mass Distraction is Richard Clarke. He is out there trying to distract attention from the real questions about 9-11 by offering revelations about how incompetent President Bush and the whole bush league team were during the 9-11 event. This distracts attention from noticing that the real questions are being glossed over.
For instance:
Where is the wreckage from the plane that hit the Pentagon?
Where are the video tapes that were confiscated immediately after the crash at the Pentagon.
Where was the air force during this whole episode?
Why did building Number 7 at the World Trade Complex collapse?
What caused the pools of molten metal underneath the WTC and why did underground fires burn for months after?
Why is everything classified?
Why are the politicians not testifying under oath?
Who is benefitting the most from 9-11?
Who has got more power from 9-11?
Who has got more money from 9-11?
When is a committee to investigate the committee that is investigating 9-11 going to be set up?
I would not worry about the ambassador influencing young minds because if those young minds are going to be influenced by that kind of crap then they are not interested in the truth or honor or ideals or any of the life refreshing qualities necessary to stave off the death of the spirit that is displayed by the newspaper and tv reporters in North America.
http://www.againstbombing.com/ArmageddonUpdates.htm
Great article, this person has posted before, with great insight.
We should all send emails to the US feds to tell them to take Cellucci home and put him in a padded cell somewhere.
We don't need him in Canada !!
---
"Arrogance in Politics is unacceptable"
Jim Callaghan
Minden, Ontario
705-286-1860
www.misterc.ca
"The greatest price of not participating in politics is being governed by your inferiors." Plato
Monday, March 22 2004 @ 10:07 AM MST
Contributed by: sthompson
Mel Hurtig is part of this excellent effort opposing missile defence in Canada.
Lots of media attention for this one. Here are a few of the reports, as listed by Stephen Staples of the Polaris Institute.
(Anything reprinted here is for fair use only.)
*********
Print Media coverage as of March 19th
18 newspaper hits & a BN News story read on commerical stations across Canada.
Canadian personalities demand Ottawa withdraw from US anti-missile shield
Agence France Presse English Thu 18 Mar 2004 Section:
International News Time: 21:36 GMT (17:36 Eastern Time)
MONTREAL, March 18 (AFP) - A hundred well-known Canadians on Thursday called on their government to pull out of talks with Washington on participation in the US space-based anti-missile shield.
"Canadian involvement in US missile defense would undermine decades of Canadian efforts to rid the world of nuclear weapons," they said in an open letter to Prime Minister Paul Martin.
"It would represent our acquiescence and willingness to become an active participant in a permanent nuclear future," said the letter. "As such, it would directly collide with the wishes of the Canadian people who have expressed overwhelming support for nuclear disarmament."
Canadian participation in the US defense system "would require the reversal of a 30-year Canadian policy opposing the weaponization of space," said the letter.
The US plan is "enormously expensive" and would have long-term negative consequences on global security and "Canadian sovereignty over future foreign affairs and defense matters," said the letter.
It was signed by some 100 Canadian personalities, including former foreign minister Lloyd Axworthy, singers Bryan Adams, Richard Desjardins and Sarah McLachlan, anti-globalization author Naomi Klein, film maker Alexandre Trudeau, son of former prime minister Pierre Trudeau, and a Catholic bishop and a Nobel chemistry laureate.
jl/aln/jjc Canada-US-missiles-people
Length: 201 words
CELEBS FIGHT STAR WARS
The Toronto Sun Thu 18 Mar 2004 Page: 47
Section: News Byline: BY VIVIAN SONG, TORONTO SUN
Canada's luminaries are urging Prime Minister Paul Martin to stay out of a galactic star wars they say goes against Canadian values.
Stars such as singer Bryan Adams, Sarah McLachlan, environmentalist David Suzuki and award-winning journalist and author Pierre Berton have signed their names in an open letter to the prime minister voicing their opposition to Canada's participation in the U.S.-led missile defence system.
"The concerns are several-fold. It's just not something that fits with Canadian values," said Steven Staples, spokesman for public interest and research group Polaris Institute.
CP Wire (This is the story from which the next dozen or more stories is derived - Steve) Thu 18 Mar 2004 Section: Entertainment and culture
OTTAWA (CP) _ A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan.
The group has sent a letter to Prime Minister Paul Martin, urging him to keep Canada out of the defence system.
The letter contends the U.S. plan to use missiles to defend North America from attacks will have ``long-term negative consequences for global security , and for Canadian sovereignty.''
Signatories include Nobel Prize, Grammy Award and Order of Canada recipients such as Bryan Adams, Pierre Berton, Sarah McLachlan, Stompin' Tom Connors and Susan Aglukark.
Some politicians have also signed on.
A similar letter was signed in Montreal by Alexander (Sacha) Trudeau, Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe and others.
Length: 121 words
Brief: Musicians, politicians, intellectuals urge PM to avoid missile defence plan
OTTAWA (CP) -- A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group has sent a letter to Prime Minister... Source: Canadian Press Edition: Final The Packet & Times (Orillia) - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 70 words
Brief: Group urges Martin to avoid missile defence plan
OTTAWA (CP) -- A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group has sent a letter to Prime...
Source: Canadian Press
Edition: Final The North Bay Nugget - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 103 words
Brief: PM urged to avoid missile defence plan
OTTAWA -- A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group has sent a letter to Prime Minister... Source: Penticton Herald; Wire Services Edition: Final Penticton Herald - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 96 words
Singers, politicians hope to defuse U.S. missile plan A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group has sent a letter to Prime Minister Paul Martin,... Source: Record news services Edition: Final The Record (Kitchener, Cambridge and Waterloo) - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 94 words
Celebrities urge prime minister to avoid missile defence plan
OTTAWA - A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group has sent a letter to Prime Minister Paul... Source: The Canadian Press Edition: Final The Standard (St. Catharines - Niagara) - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 120 words
Celebrities urge Martin to stay away from missile defence plan
OTTAWA (CP) -- A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group has sent a letter to Prime... Source: Canadian Press Edition: Final The Expositor (Brantford) - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 121 words
Brief: Artists urge PM to avoid missile defence plan
OTTAWA - A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group has sent a letter to Prime Minister Paul... Source: Canadian Press Edition: Final Tribune (Welland) - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 120 words
Celebrities say no to missile defence plan
OTTAWA - A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group has sent a letter to Prime Minister Paul... Source: The Canadian Press Edition: Final The Edmonton Journal - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 120 words
ARTISTS CALL FOR BAN ON MISSILES
A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Parliament to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group has sent a letter to Prime Minister Paul... Byline: BY CP Edition: Final The Ottawa Sun - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 89 words
ARTISTS ANGRY
A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group sent a letter to Prime Minister Paul Martin,... Edition: Final The Calgary Sun - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 93 words
Musicians attack missiles OTTAWA
(CP) -- A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group has sent a letter to Prime... Source: Canadian Press Edition: Final Times Colonist (Victoria) - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 121 words
Brief: Music: Musicians, politicians, intellectuals urge PM to avoid missile defence plan
OTTAWA (CP) -- A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan. The group has sent a letter to Prime... Source: Canadian Press Edition: Final Cape Breton Post - Fri, Mar 19, 2004 - 121 words
In Brief Winnipeg Free Press Fri 19 Mar 2004
Page: A16 Section:
Canada Wire Byline:
Celebrity group rejects missile defence
OTTAWA -- A group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals is calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan.
The group has sent a letter to Prime Minister Paul Martin, urging him to keep Canada out of the defence system.
Signatories include Nobel Prize, Grammy Award and Order of Canada recipients such as Bryan Adams, Pierre Berton, Sarah McLachlan, Stompin' Tom Connors and Susan Aglukark.
Tom stomps on Bush plan
The Calgary Herald Fri 19 Mar 2004 Page: D3 Section: Entertainment Column: Entertainment Notes Source: CanWest News Services
Stompin' Tom Connors is among a group of musicians, politicians and intellectuals calling on Ottawa to steer clear of the Bush administration's missile defence plan.
The group has sent a letter to Prime Minister Paul Martin, urging him to keep Canada out of the defence system.
The letter contends the U.S. plan to use missiles to defend North America from attacks will have "long-term negative consequences for global security, and for Canadian sovereignty."
Signatories include Nobel Prize, Grammy Award and Order of Canada recipients such as Bryan Adams, Pierre Berton, Sarah McLachlan, Connors and Susan Aglukark.
Illustration: . Photo: Calgary Herald Archive / Stompin' Tom Connors is warning Canada against the U.S. missile defence plan.
Edition: Final Story Type: News; Brief Length: 96 words
HURTIG LAUNCHES BID TO STOP MISSILE PLAN
The Edmonton Sun Fri 19 Mar 2004 Page: 19 Section: News Byline: BY SHANE HOLLADAY, EDMONTON SUN
Endorsing the U.S. missile defence system makes Canada a target for future nuclear exchanges - and citizens should be telling Prime Minister Paul Martin to reject the plan, says a citizens' group.
As part of a nation-wide campaign, Council of Canadians founder Mel Hurtig is urging people to oppose plans to have U.S. missile bases on Canadian soil.
"Many people are involved and we have sent a letter to the prime minister today with scores of ordinary Canadians signing the letter saying please, do not get involved in the American national missile defence plan," Hurtig said. "It's already resulting in a huge escalation and buildup of nuclear weapons and new missile systems in Russia and China."
Musicians, politicians and intellectuals are joining together across Canada to sign the letter, he said.
Based on the Star Wars defence system conceived during the 1980s, some anti-ballistic-missile defence shield concepts involve nuclear warheads in orbit over North America.
Hurtig said the defence plan launched a new nuclear arms race, and Canada shouldn't be involved except as a voice against the "weaponization of space."
He dismissed the idea the ballistic missile shield would help protect Canada. "The minute we become involved in the national missile defence program, we will be perceived as a target."
Dr. Caleb this was another article on vive last week
search on vive
Prominent Canadians Oppose Missile Defence:(quote below)
'Last week, Premier Ralph Klein said the U.S. was welcome to use Alberta soil to house part of its anti-ballistic-missile defence shield. Marisa Etmanski, a spokesman for the premier's office, said yesterday no talks about missiles in Alberta have happened. "It is yet to be finalized. That's his opinion for now," Etmanski said. "We're not even sure that it's going to be happening at all." Edition: Final Length: 275 words'
Anyone else see this item ??
---
"Arrogance in Politics is unacceptable"
Jim Callaghan
Minden, Ontario
705-286-1860
www.misterc.ca
Thanks for your help.
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"Arrogance in Politics is unacceptable"
Jim Callaghan
Minden, Ontario
705-286-1860
www.misterc.ca
"The greatest price of not participating in politics is being governed by your inferiors." Plato
I will never visit your piece of shit country again!
*censored* OFF