Lapham Proves How Docile Canadians Are

I don't know who Lapham is except for Derrick's description as another neocon shill for Bush. We really have to abrogate Nafta, integrate our economy with the EU (or China, if you're really a forward thinker), and close our southern border entirely. That is the only way we'll keep these arrogant Americans out. Who invited him here anyway?

If you had read the Gateway article: "I was granted the opportunity to witness a speech by Lewis Lapham, editor of Harper’s magazine for nearly 30 years".

Please try to remain on topic.


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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill

It's funny you say that anon, because I once saw Lewis Lapham debate that awful Canadian elitist Margaret Macmillan on issues like missile defence and trade, and it seemed as though Lapham was defending Canada, while the Bilderberger Margaret Macmillan was pushing hard for deference to U.S. authority and a Canadian inferiority complex.

Lapham was also very critical of the U.S., and called it a "feudal oligharcy, that goes to war for the benefit of a few rich families."

I'm more concerned about the "docile" politically correct Canadians in the audience that I am with Lapham...A speaker from the Unites States usually talks about the U.S.--that's all they are taught about in school. They should have invited someone else.

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The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter --

Winston Churchill

I did read the article and I am on topic. These are some quotes from Derrek Grebinski’s article, all referring to Lapham: “a hilariously US-centric speech”, “Lapham’s borderline-jingoism”; “some mealy-mouthed basement dweller”. This Lapham guy clearly insulted the audience and that’s why we need to keep him and Americans like him out of Canada.

"We really have to abrogate Nafta, "
Offtopic.

"integrate our economy with the EU "
Offtopic.

"(or China, if you're really a forward thinker), and close our southern border entirely. "
Offtopic.

"That is the only way we'll keep these arrogant Americans out. "
Offtopic. Irrelevant.

The topic is: "how docile Canadians are". Discuss:


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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill

OK have it your way. Canadians are docile because we won’t abrogate Nafta, integrate our economy with the EU, and meekly abide American neocons who wander across the border.

Better! Are we docile because of those things, or are those symptoms of something else?

I think it's part of our nature to seek consensus, rather than conflict. One of our strengths is also the cause of one of our weaknesses, which could be cured with stronger national pride, IMNSHO.


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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill

How uninteresting.
The writer could of at least provided a quote, paraphase, something else other than just generalized ranting. What did Lapham say or not say that sent him off? What were the questions he dodged?
And why would you expect an American writer to talk about Canadian politics? Why would you care more about what Lewis Lapham thinks of Canada than his own country?
Context is everything and unfortunately there is none in this piece.
Too bad. Lapham is an interesting guy and a great writer. Harper's is a great magazine. Did anyone ask him what he thought of The Walrus magazine?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people speaking out in defense of Canada. But Lewis Lapham didn't sell this country out. And it's not Harper's Magazine that's pushing "Deeper Integration" of NAFTA and BMD.

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"The very fact that the concept "anti-American" can exist exhibits a totalitarian streak that's pretty dramatic." Noam Chomsky

I agree. Harper's is not the enemy. Nor is Lewis (although his daught, I believe, did just marry a Mulroney *shudder*). The problem is the organizer of the conference who invited an American over the editor of Walrus (who is the editor of Walrus? That's a great magazine!). The problem is the audience so steeped in American culture they probably didn't even realize that he wasn't talking about them.

I remember discovering the border. It was late in life, well into my teens, when I really discovered that I wasn't an American. I felt cheated. It hurt. But it was like the wool was pulled off of my eyes and suddenly I saw how deeply the cultural and political invasion had crept across my world. To find my country I had to dig beneath the surface -- and, as if by intuition, I discovered it and the stark reality of this country became apparent. We have something so special in this world. Something that is absolutely worth protecting.

But how much are we willing to sacrifice to make that happen?

I remember a friend saying in a bar once, "You know, ever year on the anniversary of the day we won the war of 1812, they should do a poll to see how many would fight if there was another invasion. Just to get a sense of how fired up the country is."

My response was, "What was the date that we won the invasion?"

Nobody knew.

G

<a href="http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/expressnews/articles/news.cfm?p_ID=6329">http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/expressnews/articles/news.cfm?p_ID=6329</a><br />
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Is this it?<p>---<br>RickW

"What was the date that we won the invastion?" It's still going on, and we're losing. 8[]

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"Yeah, well, [Mr. President] we used all five fingers because that's the way our mittens are made." Antonia Zerbisias

There was no date WE won the war of 1812. Here's another reason why canadians are so docile, while americans have been fighting pretty much since their country was born (I'm not saying I agree with it-I'd far rather be 'docile'), canadians try vainly to be smug about a war almost 200 years old which, I hate to tell you, nobody won-and few actual canadians played a part in. Perhaps you are referring to the three battles in Ontario which repulsed the americans, the most heralded would be October 13, 1812. However, the war lasted three years and the british were similarly repulsed in the states. Both sides 'claimed' victory as borderlines remained essentially unchanged.

As I've said elsewhere, the war hardly distinguishes Canada where many 'canadians' used the opportunity to try to break the colonial government. Moderates failed to even bring in 'responsible government' (didn't happen til 1837) which essentially means we were disrespected by both the americans who thought 'canadians' british slaves and the british who thought 'canadians' potential revolutionnaries. The war was kept to a stalemate partly primarily because of the Indian warriors, and we see what our country has done to them. The swiss kept their country during the second world war because every man in the country was armed and had orders to fight for a country where direct democracy was a given. Here, people want 'the government' to spend more and get others to do the dirty work. So perhaps the war of 1812 is a perfect symbol for our country.

It is often difficult to use any other words besides docile for Canada. I get as many arguments against direct democracy as I get for it, canadians don't even want canadians to make their own decisions. In the states at least they have balls. Senate reform happened in the states because the people elected senators and demanded the federal government take them and threatened those who were 'hand chosen'. Citizen initiatives were brought in a similar way. In canada senate reform has been 'argued' since 1869 and we still see no changes. In fact, many canadians think it a good thing that we can't even elect a senator (the Prime Minister is so much smarter than we)

In countries where freedom is lacking, like Colombia, the people stood up to Bechtel and kicked them the h*** out. In Venezuela which became a military dictatorship when the President was snatched the people lined the streets and forced his return. In Argentina, which modern economics has reduced to rubble, workers are setting up Co-ops and the police have to be brought in to remove them. In Canada, where people are free (generally) to demonstrate, lobby and run for office we see....nothing. People complain on websites about things we 'should' do.

What happened on 13 October 1812?

To be honest, I don't know much of the history, but I like Northrop Frye's take on the war -- that it was in fact a civil war. Unlike the South, Canada was successful in its bid to reject the Union.

May we have the courage to continue doing so -- at least hold out long enough until a real leader steps to the fore.

G

October 13 was the battle of Queenston Heights which is long celebrated amongst the "tastemakers" (not my word but it makes me laugh) as that is where Sir Isaac Brock met his end and the natives pulled the butts out of the fire by defeating the american forces.

I'd suggest some heavy duty research on it, particulary in book form as the internet is mainly filled with propaganda or highlights about it. Particularly if you think it was a civil war that helped us overcome our adversaries in the south. In fact, the majority of Van Resselaeroff's forces refused to invade canada, and would only defend their own territory. Some research on it will show you that average canadians were trying to get out from under the british yoke and set up a republic of canadians, this was squashed down. It's ironic that people think of oppression here in Canada as freedom, I thought that was just the states. In fact I'd be interested in hearing people's opinions as they do research on it, I've been through about 12 academic books and articles and its pretty clear to me that canadians lost our revolution. Whether we would have ended up american is pretty much moot.