Missile Defence May Not Get To A Vote: Graham

Posted on Monday, September 27 at 11:02 by Anonymous
CTV.ca News Staff Updated: Sun. Sep. 26 2004 6:35 PM ET Participation in the U.S. missile defence program will be a decision for the government, not for Parliament, Defence Minister Bill Graham said Sunday on CTV's Question Period. Any decision on missile defence would come under a treaty provision with the United States. International treaties don't require ratification by the House of Commons. "It's a wise tradition because the House isn't always sitting," Graham said. "The government has to be able to enter into international affairs and be able to conduct the affairs of Canada without always having to go to the House for permission." Canada's possible participation in the U.S. missile-defence plan is expected to be near the top of the political agenda this fall. The NDP and Bloc Quebecois oppose the project and will likely call for a vote in Parliament on it. If it did come to a vote, even some Liberal MPs would vote with the opposition, creating a problem for Prime Minister Paul Martin's minority government. Graham, in a previous role as chair of the Foreign Affairs committee, was once one of the prominent Liberals who expressed doubts about missile defence plans for North America. Graham said his concerns, years ago, were that U.S. plans might lead to another global arms race. But Graham told CTV's Mike Duffy that many of his questions were answered when U.S. President George Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin sat down to discuss missile defence. With his concerns about Russia erased, Graham says the Americans are simply looking ahead and preparing for threats that might emerge some day from hostile nations, rogue states or independent terrorists. "Do we want the Americans to go ahead with something to defend North America that we're not going to participate in?" Graham said. "In my view, we have to have negotiations with them -- to discuss with them whether we should be there or not. We have to do that." But no decision will be made until a deal is negotiated, and he said there are no plans for any component of the plan to be based in Canada. "Everything can be done from Alaska, and even part of this may well become eventually a ship-based initiative," he said. "So the Americans are not asking us for rocket bases in Canada. And I know of no suggestion along those lines." And on the matter of a vote in Parliament, Graham said that will be the decision of the prime minister and the house leader.

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  1. Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:43 pm
    Nice excuse. They know they will lose an open vote and their government for it.

    Some Liberals and Conservatives will do anything to snuggle up to the Bush government.

    I also like how they keep repeating that missile defence does not have components in space. More lies, as anyone with half a brain can log on to the US Air Force website and see they have been put in charge of space weapons research and deployment. The funding was in the last US budget. They take us for morons...

    Roy

  2. Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:09 pm
    The government of the day is elected to sign Treaties and so forth, if they did not have that mandate Canada would be paralysed.
    They should have signed the Missile Defence treaty long ago.

  3. Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:09 am
    I fail to see how opting out of continental defence would benefit Canadian sovereignty. Sure, it's a stupid idea, but under the proposed participation levels Canada would not have to contribute any financial resources to the endeavour, but it would still gain a seat at the table. Opt out and the US will roll forward without a Canadian voice. Imagine a NORAD without a Canadian chain of command.

    The weaponisation of space is valid concern. As of late, the missile defence system is land based. Canada could and obviously will opt out if the process spreads to the weaponisation of space.

    It's called realpolitik, people. Get a grip.

  4. Tue Sep 28, 2004 1:37 am
    Why support it to begin with when we all know the end conclusion?

    Also see the massive nuclear buildup being conducted by the Chinese and Russians. they know what's coming and they are preparing for it. bush had to pull out of long-standing treaties that the entire world supported to get missile defence this far.

    you dont tear up one treaty to start another knowing full well that your potential advesaries are not going to just sit back and say okay.

  5. Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:51 am
    I urge you all to get Mel Hurtig's new book, Rushing to Armaggedon, I've just started it and believe that after you are finished you will demand these wanna bees stand up for Canada! This is utter b.s., Graham is advocating we join them in the pregames, tell the world we support the effort, while the world is saying 'wait a minute' you guys have all the weapons, and all the armor' NO Way! Think they are not going to consider other means, nobody wants to be oppressed! Nobody! What are they thinking??? Nobody wins Nuclear War, NOBody! Sheeeeshh the world has gone mad!

    ---
    If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?

  6. Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:14 am
    'The world' is busy acquiring nuclear weapons, they're not saying wait a minute. While the West has had nuclear missiles for five decades and not used any of them, the regimes that want them now say flat out that they are going to use them. These regimes are not somehow 'oppressed' because the West has nuke missiles, that's quite irrelevant to them.
    The oppression in these countries is from their own governments, they can point fingers at someone else, you can point fingers at someone else, but it doesn't change the facts.

  7. by michou
    Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:18 pm
    I beg to differ. The only country who has ever used its nuclear weaponry on innocent citizens IS the U.S.
    The U.S is also the only country who has made pre-emption part of their basic foreign policy. The U.S. Bush Administration is presently perceived as a rogue nation by the rest of the world, similarly to the USSR during the cold war. If any country needs to get a grip on reality at the moment, it is the U.S. and not the rest of the world. Unfortunately for Canada, we are geographically connected to the U.S. and we will be made to suffer BECAUSE of the U.S. interventionist policies around the globe and not because other countries are a threat to Canada.

  8. Tue Sep 28, 2004 8:02 pm
    As of today, the US is saying it will cost us cash, land and for that we may get a few juicy contracts for the purpose of building more of these damn things.


    ---
    "One crisis at a time is life's motto" - Carl Sagan
    Jim Callaghan
    Minden, Ontario
    705-286-1860
    www.misterc.ca

  9. Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:55 am
    Actually, the real plan is to Weaponize space, period. There is no other plan the rest is pure and simple b.s.! Read Vision 2020, search for Going Ballistic on vive and then check my sources.

    ---
    If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?

  10. Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:52 am
    <blockquote>I fail to see how opting out of continental defence would benefit Canadian sovereignty</blockquote> </p> Ok, Mr/Ms Anonymous, you're right. Opting out of missile defense will not benefit Canadian sovereignty. Rather, it is a practice IN Canadian sovereignty. Step back a second. What's sovereignty? It's the ability to make decisions that will most benefit your own citizens (or benefit the government-du-jour's friends, depending on the level of corruption) without external interference. </p> So lets see... what are the pros and cons of getting involved in this project? </p> Well, the pros are pretty straightforward: if we participate, those oh-so-irritable Southern neighbours of ours won't have a hissy fit. Oh, and a bunch of rich Canadian corporations will be awarded some contracts. </p> And the cons: WE'RE PUTTING WEAPONS IN SPACE, the system doesn't work and CAN'T work (research it a bit... it's like shooting a bullet out of the air with a handgun... when all you know is where it was shot from... good luck), it will cost ridiculous amounts of money (ok, so it might not be OUR money, but still.. what a waste), and it will cement our puppet-of-the-USA role, making us targets of international terrorism. </P> So what do you say? Should we participate in the weaponization of space, which will lead to another arms race and nuclear buildup, infuriate already-oppressed nations, and make Canada the target of future attacks? The answer, to me, is a pretty damn clear NO. I mean, IT DOESN'T WORK and it WON'T work anytime soon. And it hasn't been tested in 2 years. In fact, the last test was postponed until after the American elections. What does THAT tell you?? </p> Remember, the reason the US first pursued the weaponization of space was to make the USSR waste billions of dollars on technology that couldn't work, just to undermine the Soviet economy. And it worked. So why would the US do the same thing now??? </P> -KY <p>---<br>Kory Yamashita <br />
    <br />
    "What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

  11. Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:53 am
    You anti anti-missile defence folks should think about the future a little. Now, in Canada, there are two private groups working on launching rockets into space, both on shoestring budgets. There are a couple of dozen more groups around the world working on this X - prize thing too. The technology is everywhere and putting bombs or chemicals or biological agents on these things is easier than putting people in them.
    This is besides all those other not-necessarily-friendly nations that already have ballistic missiles that could carry chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. This isn't sci-fiction, it's already fact. And North America has no defence against it.

  12. Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:13 am
    America does have a defence against it, it is called the ABM Treaty, the Land Mines Treaty, the Non-proliferation of WMD treaty, the Space for Peace plan, the stop invading and taking other people's resources plan, the fair trade plan, the stop impoverishing others plan, the diplomacy plan, the just because we can doesn't mean we have to plan; all of these will help stop the need for anyone to attack North America.

    Second, there is no way to arm yourself to the teeth and expect others not to; the BMD does not work, for many reasons, besides some mentioned, one the radar cannot tell the difference between a missile and other space debris, a true missile could be disguised with a mylar balloon, also because most of these missiles will not reach the destination they will land short, probably in Canada; those who are really determined to attack will not send one, they will send hundreds and even if one gets through, we are toast! So disarmament, is the only way and if the U.S. had not given notice to get out of the ABM treaty which they signed in 1997, the Russians and Chinese would not be amassing weapons today. The U.S. is a country who believes they have the right to defend by whatever means necessary, even if that means annihilating whole continents, they believe in pre-emptive war fare. We are talking here about a 3 world war, of the most horrific consequences, we will not need to worry about local governments any longer, or our retirement funds!

    Read read read, get informed, this is a mistake which is only to fund the military corporate machines, that is it, some company purports to have this great technology and all they need is funding to get it off the ground, the gov buys the idea and sinks millions, billions and eventually trillions of our dollars into such a dream for world domination, and we believe it!

    They are playing on our fear, whoever pays the piper gets the protection the rest of the world is hostage; that whole story is b.s. and they know it, the only thing that is going on here is greed, very large appetites for money and in the end we are all going to be the victims because it will backfire. It isn't about BMD, it is about space weaponization and offensive power, control the world through space, it's all there on their Vision 2020, I don't know how much clearer it could be??

    ---
    If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?

  13. Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:24 am
    It's quite clear that all those treaties you mentioned mean nothing to many nations, they're about as effective as the United Nations.
    The Islamics for example, they want to die if it means they can kill 'infidels', they wouldn't even bother to spit on a treaty.

  14. Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:52 am
    You know I am starting to get a very clear picture here, there are people who refuse to believe that there are any means to peace, the only solution some people can see is to destroy those who they believe might want to destroy us, and make sure we do it first...duh, well I thought you were planning to bomb us so we just jumped the gun...sorry...

    Listen, what part of the story isn't getting through, we were lied to about Iraq, they did not have WMD, nOt have, so could it be that the heightened b.s. to make us all walk around fearing everybody else, is just that b.s.??? Of course there are always going to be lunatics, wild crazed people who are willing to kill, just because, they aren't unique to a certain region or country, but those running countries are not stupid enough to believe that if they send a missile out, that one will not return. They aren't likely to put a nice little gps on it so we can track it if they do, so basicly we're all going to be killed, so shouldn't those who are in charge make the decision as once happened to stop ARMING the world!

    It has happened it can happen again, there are people in every country that want peace, honestly, so all we have to do is say, we are not buying the b.s., we aren't going to fund your rich lifestyles, we want peace, disarmament, and stop trying to weaponize space. Of course I mean all people, not just Canadians, but we could lead the way.

    I am sure I am not the only one who believes that people can make a difference, look what happened when people started protesting Vietnam, the troops came home. Now if the people had known before they went, how history would have been different.

    We do know, that BMD does means star wars, so if we speak now, maybe we can forever hold the peace???

    ---
    If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?



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