Coalition Of Independent Candidates

Nice idea but, not going to work.

The Reform Party was founded on the naive ideas of freeing people to vote their conscience.
The Non-partisan Association in Vancouver civic politics the same.

Although not so naive really. (designed to attract the naive)

Both taken over by and really fronts for real political philosophies. (very right wing at that)

Both were really fronts for something they weren't.

Political parties in drag so to speak.

Like minds need to get together in our society in order to take on the powers that be, politically. Organizational power is what is required. Everything else is sadly, tilting with windmills.

The Coalition of Independent Candidates seems to have an anti-corporate elite power agenda. Or perhaps it is really individualistic and all the voting of any such successful politicians will always cancel themselves out and always amount to nothing.

Corporations easily encourage such enterprizes to dilute the opposition. They take such enterprizes over if they get scarey and they run them. They do that easily with both hands tied behind their backs and without even saying anything.

To pull your like minds together (the ones who don't like organizations and want to be free to do whatever they want) you then have a coalition of losers. (Huge egos, people who don't play well with others, and pure driven anti-collective, individualists.)

In any case it still becomes a defacto political party.
The group that refuses to see the organizational power and how it interacts in our soceiety. Like doing physics equations and neglecting friction and wondering why you always get the wrong answer. Like atheists getting together, putting down religion while they chant "so help me no god".

Think organizational power.

Democracy balancing off the Corporate organizational power is a pipe dream.

You need both democracy and organizational power in our society to make a difference.

Good topic to think out loud on though.

I read through what was there, and if Whelan and Wayne are running this group then you should contact the group in Ontario. The group in ontario is essentially the same, however, they do want to bring more direct democracy to make them truly independant. An independant person can be corrupted as easily as a party nominee, if fact probably easier, just take a look at local councils and development.

But the group is still 'independant' so at least some kind of partnership should be made, at least to share costs for brochure production. I'll try to find their website and email address, but I don't agree with the above poster, there is no saying what 'will work' BEFOREHAND. If that were true political progress wouldn't have changed a bit.

It would be a huge success even if two or three people won. Right now, the biggest problem and opportunity is that it is a minority government. This is where strategy is important and looking at what ridings are most amenable to independants. In close ridings people are too worried about one side or the other, and many people are paranoid about a majority government.

Plus, I guarantee you'll get people saying "why would I trust you?" Unless you can find people with a proven track record either municipally or provincially, how would you know the person wasn't a nazi or something? Once again, thats where direct democracy comes into it.

As the website says, in a survey people felt it was important the 'ideals' the party had, but then agreed they didn't uphold them. But essentially as an independant there is no track record of ANY ideals. There is a guy who has been running as a direct democracy candidate in BC a few times, and even a political party for direct democracy, so that at least brings some accountability to it. Apart from that, most people will drill a candidate on their personal views until they hit something they disagree with and say 'aha', I don't agree with that. Of course parties are the same, but its quite a problem.

But only time will tell, its good to see Whelan and Wayne getting back into 'the system' again.

Listen up fellow Canadians:
We now see the horror "south of the line",an almost complete dictatorship of a military machine bent on eternal global war.Led by a reckless leadership with nothing to lose,Cheney is on death's doorstep with his bad ticker,Bush is completely delusional and in another world,and their henchmen guilty of numerous crimes,including international war crimes,their rush to Armageddon and a nucleur WW3 is frightening,and one wonders if their dictatorship of the U.S. is unstoppable...There are not many counties in the world they do not criticise or threaten,the utmost in hiprocrysy!
But don't get too comfortable in your armchair thinking we are safe here.We are not.Harper seems to idolize Bush and his regime's ideals,starting with foriegn military engagements and military spending.A few years ago he suggested we need an aircraft carrier,what the hell for?Offensive war?
We should only be peacekeepers in Afghanistan.To aid the Americans there only makes us targets of hatred, as they are.As long as the Americans are bombing and killing innocent civilians with reckless abandon,any good intent we have there will be squandered.We are encouraging America's enemies to demonise us also,"Misery loves company".
The USA is now a staggering,hopelessly in debt,sinking collossus,bent on ruling the world,or global destruction,no in between..Let's not "hitch our wagon"to a dying horse.
Don't forget that during his first election campaign Harper looked to Brian Mulrony for advice,the very guy who "sold us down the river" to the Americans.And Mulrony was given the "Order of Canada",and I think he deserved it,no one in Canada's history had done so much damage to our soverienty and gotten away with it,a feat in itself.
Now I'm not taking any political party's side,but Jack Leighton is the only sane person I have heard talk so far.I don't wan't to hear any of that tired old crap that the NDP are Commies..But probably not the answer either as they are likely infected with some of the old opportunistic "party jumpers" and traitors.
We as independent and intelligent Canadians need to do something soon,what is happening south of our border can just as easily can happen here!
Let's get on with it!!
We really do need some new thinking so let's start this movement,we have little time to lose...

I love this idea but I have doubts about any political solutions. Something I am interested in starting up in Canada would be something like the Free State Project:<br />
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<a href="http://www.freestateproject.org">www.freestateproject.org</a><br />
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Perhaps we could have the Free Province Project. I just want government out of my life and it does not matter who I elect, government is a disease that does nothing but grow. It has grown to the point were it is now merged with corporations, hence we have facisim. I don't want to give power to others/government as some day the government will consist of people who I don't agree with. I think the best way to improve our lives is to ignore government, but, all those who would ignore government live apart, making them easy targets. I imagine living in a valley someday where every resident has a very libertarian attitude.<p>---<br>My freedom is more important than your great idea.<br />
– Anonymous

Much food for thought, S-C!

That is why I am leaning more and more to a randomly selected Citizen's Council, picked as is a jury, but from a PUBLIC list of volunteers of Canadian Citizens.

This group would form the legislative body for a period of 4 years. Adequate provision for compensation during and after service.

With some fine tuning this is about as incorruptible a group, for the duration, that is likely to be assembled for any purpose.

And if they can't get along, so what? It is not a social club.

One proviso for this type of government: No authority to make any irreversible decisions without a national referendum. Tax increases, or new taxes, spring to mind here.

H.F. Wolff

Interesting comments. A couple of questions come to mind.
Do we have a democracy now? Do we feel that the current party controlled
government is serving our best interests?

An independent does not have the endorsement of the party, which means
they are not screened for us. We as the voter/employer have to do the job
interview. The interview process (that we have up till now for the most part,
given to
someone else to do for us) is critical ; we take the word of the party that this
individual
will represent us, however they have been screened for party compatibility
not representability.

Democracy is governance by the whole population and we are lacking in that
area, in part, because we have not been part of the equation.

To run as an independent in today's environment is very difficult. COIC is
simply a vehicle to assist those who wish to offer themselves in that capaciy,
a resource to make the process smoother. Every candidate will have their own
platform, the only thing that is different is that we are going to highlight
them on our webpage, and that they will make their pledge to their
constituents and the people of Canada, not to a party.

As an employer would you simply hire someone who is recommended by
someone else without doing an interview, without calling references? Would
you hire someone simply because of the school they attended, without
looking at their marks, or their particular course of study? That is what we are
doing in the current system. Even if we show up to participate in an all
candidate debate or forum, -that has been set up for us. Who is allowed to
participate will be determined by someone else, what kind of questions you
can ask will be determined by someone else; the newspaper will feature who
they chose, not who you want to know about.

Why don't we do our homework before we hire people to manage our affairs?
In many ways we are prevented from doing so.

When the party screens, selects or appoints their member and places them
before us, they have taken us out of the equation; when they don't perform to
our liking they say too bad, we picked him/her, and you voted for us. It is
time for Canadians who are dissatisfied with the system to stop watching and
start participating. Assisting independent people in their taking a stand is a
step towards taking back our proper role in our government.

COIC is an opportunity to become involved, to make the process of running
as an independent as simple as possible. It doesn't define the platform of the
individual, that is up to them to create and to interact with their constituents.
That is democracy. Ask the employer what they want and then deliver it to the
best of your ability...the employer is us. The MP is our employee, plain and
simple. A party MP works for the party, the party works for their donors, but
who works for us?

Anyone who likes what parties have done for Canada, and want to continue to
support that system is free to do so. This in no way impacts on their freedom
to vote for a party. What we are saying is that many people who might be very
good representatives of the people are being shut out of the process because
they don't have a support network; they don't know how to begin, they think
it is too complicated, or they aren't smart enough etc. etc. They may not
agree with a party policies and are thinking outside of the box, they may have
great ideas that can improve our way of life, but they will not ever be heard.
We think everyone should be heard. Everyone who wants to apply for the job
should be interviewed by the employer. That's what we are offering.

We are a threat to no one. We are an opportunity for everyone!

For those who say this is too idealist, I say so was the person who proposed
indoor plumbing - the outhouse wasn't so bad, a little chilly on the butt in
the winter, but all in all it didn't take us long to appreciate the advantages of
running water - I'm sure some people still miss the walk through the snow,
but I don't hear it often!

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"aaaah and the whisper of thousands of tiny voices became a mighty deafening roar and they called it 'freedom'!"' Canadians Acting Humanely at home & everywhere

I would like anyone with inside knowledge to tell me why the people should consider to support political parties ... given their history of patronage, manipulation of public funds to the benefit of their friends and political partisans.

Not to mention that in recent years it has become more apparent that the politicians whom we have voted for ( and they have pledged to represent their constituents, FIRST ) have instead taken the high road to vote tactically on behalf of the PARTY.

It's always the PARTY and taxpayers/voters have become nothing more than a convenience to use at election time as the means to a majority government. Parties have long been derided by thoughtful politicians like Thomas Jefferson, for example, who said ( "When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
).

Obviously political parties have had and continue to have inherent flaws that are now coming to the fore on an almost daily basis.

We ALL deserve better government than the parties have been able to provide. It's time for everyone to begin to think outside of the restrictive box we have put ourselves into with party politics running our system.

It doesn't work. Parties in government don't listen, don't act , and have shown themselves to be devoid of common sense, prudence, empathy or plain old honesty when they achieve power.

People aren't stupid anymore,thankfully, and experience is making them less and less easily manipulated by "spin" and irrational rationales.

As far as my involvement in the COIC I do it with all the best intentions. There onething about being able to think outside the box.. one can speak openly and if one believes in what they are saying and what they stand for, they do so with pride.

If I were ashamed of what how I felt or of what I said or written, then I would call my self by any other name but Wayne Coady.

The other good thing about the COIC,is all who take part will do so in their real name, the COIC is up front and so sould those who take part.

Catherine Whelan Costen and Paul Barnes are two whom I am very proud to be associated with. I have no agenda other than to see more independent candidates get involved.

Hopefully in time our political system will reform and we taxpayers will demand more accountability of our elected. Also I would like to see a new an improved taxation legislation, one that does not use public coffer to finance outside government, taxpayers should not be forced into financing private business. These are my views, not the views of the COIC and every independent candidate will bring their own constituency views, now it all about the party.

I have been on Vive now for several years and each and every contributor on the sight, has complained about either the Federal governing Parties or their provincial. So I would say your not pleased with the present. Therefore it is time to step outside the party box and bring on a little change.

Why not do something instead of just complaining ?



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Good government is not a party government

"I have been on Vive now for several years and each and every contributor on the sight, has complained about either the Federal governing Parties or their provincial. So I would say your not pleased with the present. Therefore it is time to step outside the party box and bring on a little change.<br />
<br />
Why not do something instead of just complaining ? "<br />
<br />
In answer to your question Wayne it is because it appears to be in the nature of the beast<br />
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<br />
<a href="http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html">http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html</a><br />
<br />
<br />
<p>---<br>"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."<br />
<br />
William Blake<br />
<br />

Solocanoe, Thanks for the post I am glad you think it is a nice idea. I do too. Unfortunately, my naiveté, has been thoroughly processed by the meat grinder called life and there is little I have not seen or experienced. Your words are biting and seek to rend free will and personal power into a base homogenous gum void of flavor thus palatable to none, spit out this nonsense. Individuals can and do take back control once they decide and understand how they contribute to the very thing that opposes their efforts. The particular later in life naiveté, that is symptomatic of tunnel vision, is easily acquired by accepting the illusion of powerlessness that is fostered by those who benefit from that belief. Having been there I can certainly understand your seemingly atomistic view of the world. I don’t know that you or anyone else is qualified to judge what is in the hearts and minds of individual Canadians. I know what is in my heart and I am simply reaching out fellow Canadians of like mind to challenge the traditional control paradigm. Challenge it with a fresh non-participation approach. The traditional democratic participatory infrastructure is in place, now is the time to use it or lose it. The past is the past and yes we can learn from it but, things have changed. I know that individuals are most certainly capable and do indeed bring about significant and lasting change. The oft quoted and much admired, Mohandas Gandhi, was the catalyst for tremendous change in the country that later became his home and in the U.S. through Dr. King. They both achieved what you say cannot be done and by simply saying no and employing a healthy non-participatory bypass of the traditional control paradigms. They were far from passive resistors. They took action and many people were and still are, attracted to the simple truths they espoused. Though they were portrayed as apolitical, their poitical influence is still present to this day. Ideas are bulletproof and so are dreams. You can kill the man but once the dream is shared it is unassailable. I believe people are already free to vote with their conscience as well as free to participate to improve the current system. The only things preventing anyone of us from voting with their conscience or even putting that conscience to action is ourselves and the hurdles we allow the government to put in front of us before we can exercise our right to participate. COIC will help you with the hurdles. Regardless of whether we have a party government or a government made up entirely of independents the struggle for balance will always be present. Freedom and democracy is a state and flux of being. We are all individualists regardless of our political bent and it is naïve to think otherwise. I have always found the huge egos that you speak of exist in larger quantities and dimensions within the traditional collectivist associations and individualists typically just want to be left alone. They typically do not JUST want to do whatever they want outside of society, without connection, want of companionship or caring. Quite the opposite is my experience. Surely, those of us who despise organizations would simply chose to go it alone or not at all, wouldn’t we? I am not anti-corporate, I work for one and the money I make feeds and houses myself and my family. Corporations build, power and sell the computer with which I am writing this message. They are also often used however to conceal and collude with the criminal element as do individuals in government and of their own accord. It is not the corporations that are the problem anymore than a screwdriver is when someone decides to kill with it. Tools both of them and a means to an end but, on their own are just tools. Corporations are the organizational foundation to most charities how can we be anti-corporate in that regard? When Enron scammed individuals of millions were you anti corporate? People and choices, it’s that simple. The COIC, by its very nature and construction, could never be a party. The independents would have to betray the statement of principles and join (cross the floor) or depart, register and form a party. Your examples of Reform and Non-partisan Assoc. really are nothing like what we are proposing and I fail to see their relevance, must be my naiveté.

Coalition of MA Independent Voters Meet with Independent Gubernatorial Candidate, Christy Mihos<br />
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<br />
It was oppressively humid on the day of our scheduled meeting with independent gubernatorial candidate Christy Mihos. We were eight independent activists from the Coalition of Massachusettes Independent Voters eager to sit down with a fellow political maverick, introduce ourselves and our work on political reform initiatives and talk turkey. We congregated at a nearby Dunkin Doughnuts and caught a break between rain showers -- walking over together to Mihos' campaign office which is located across the street from the state house. read more ..<br />
<a href="http://www.independentvoting.org/activistcenter/Massachusetts.html">http://www.independentvoting.org/activistcenter/Massachusetts.html</a><br />
<br />
In the United States there is an Independent Voter movement on the move and the site they have up is interesting. These are voters who refuse to belong to or support any political party. <br />
<p>---<br>Good government is not a party government

Several questions come to mind. If it is 'just a website', then what political reasons does an independant have to bother with it? A candidate will be going door to door talking to people, and linking them to a website. Any candidate will have their own website, so the question is, why would they be part of a 'coalition' that really means nothing? That's just sure to confuse the electorate and if some other independant makes off the wall comments, then that independant may find themselves on the defensive explaining the mechanics of such a coalition.

I had assumed that it was meant to be some form of organization. What benefits is the group offering independants? (this isn't being critical, this is just stuff people need to know). Is it more of an educational tool to try to convince people to run? A 'support group' for independants? What exactly?

thus far we have seen our usual negative Canadian Parade Pissers sound of on why tyhe idea won't work and except for Catherine and Wayne little forward thinking to bring into our Canadian landscape a just way of governance
so
I googled and found this
"Power to the people
One distinctively Athenian democratic practice that aroused the special ire of the system's critics was the practice of ostracism - from the Greek word for potsherd. In this reverse election to decide which leading politician should be exiled for ten years, voters scratched or painted the name of their preferred candidate on a piece of broken pottery. At least 6,000 citizens had to 'vote' for an ostracism to be valid, and all the biggest political fish risked being fried in this ceremonious way. For almost 100 years ostracism fulfilled its function of aborting serious civil unrest or even civil war. At the end of the fifth century it was replaced by a legal procedure administered by the jurors of the people's courts. Power to the people, all the people, especially the poor majority, remained the guiding principle of Athenian democracy."

either we keep repeting the same insanity while expecting a dif result or we become proactive and take back what was always ours


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"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

William Blake

Marcarc: Tell me are you interested in keeping this present political system , whereby all the power remains in the hands of parties? Or are you open to the possibility we could elect a few independent candidates, whom are willing to provide his or her constituency real democratic values?

I as many other Canadians once belonged to one political party or the other, we have decided that parties have lost their way, big time. Political parties were never a real democratic body..because all who belong must follow the parites constituation and rules,but at the time we were brained washed to believe.

After many years, I am ashamed to say I realized it was time to get to hell away from the party, because they were controlling and only a very few within the party, were the benifactors, the rest of us were nothing but "their" slaves.

Needless to say I woke up and am in the process of change, I want something different and just maybe if we the "people" have the will, we can reform the election process, so it works for "all" , not the few.

If we continue to stay within that party box, then we will continue to get what we have now. If you like the way "you" are being treated by political parties, then please continue, the COIC is looking for citizens who have had it with political parties and are willing to discuss, a new way to support and empower the citizen, taxpayer.

As Catherine said.. we are the employer , those we elect and those who work within the bureaucracy of "government" are "OUR" employee, therefor we need to elect MP / MLA's who are willing to hold the bureaucracy accountable.

We need to hire MP and MLA's who will, cover our backs not pick our pockets. I want an MP / MLA who will police those who work within the Department of Health,Finance Department,Justice and all other departments.

Will an independent candidate be able to do the job much bettter than a party candidate, well for a start he or she will not be required to march to the tune of the party piper.

I would think that the constituency and the independent candidate could work our a job discription for the MP / MLA, as it is today , MP and MLA's do not have a job discription.



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Good government is not a party government

“Do we have a democracy now? Do we feel that the current party controlled
government is serving our best interests?”

We seem to have what could best be called a flawed democracy, and the largest flaw seems to be the political party in its current form.
I applaud Catherine and Wane for at least trying to make a practical move towards change, more independent MPs would indeed be a good thing. How practical that is given that the party system isolates them even when or if elected, by excluding them from committees where much of the work is actually done, denying them research funding and generally making it more difficult to have any real impact, is the question.
Perhaps part of the effort should go into an effort to get more INDEPENDENT MINDED MPs irregardless of party affiliation and to push for change to the voting system to encourage this to happen. I believe that whist many of the alternatives offered may have merit we cannot (short of insurrection) change anything unless we do so through the existing system, a strong push for Electoral change at the federal level is needed. The move has been started by the (unfortunately failed) proposal in BC and the upcoming MPP system referendum in Ontario (unfortunately also almost doomed to failure due to the high threshold and lack of voter knowledge about it). Any voting system that moves away from giving partys power over individual MPs is a good thing and seems to be the only way to affect change within what is left of our democratic system.

You may be sure that those in power now will fight tooth and nail to protect their “Democratic Monopoly”, or is that “Democratic Dictatorship”?


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When you are up to your ass in alligators it is difficult to remember that the initial objective was to drain the swamp