"Typical American attitude"...seems to me it's a story passed on by a Canadian as told by an Italian communist party publication journalist...Ill Manifesto/Sgrena. Didn't notice any Americans there, nor any "American attitudes". Interesting how her story "evolved" after returning home to Italy, and receiving some "assistance" with her "memory" from the newspaper and political party back home (Anyone remember Mussolini and his ally, or the Roman Empire by chance?). As far as the Iraqi's continually dying every day without anyone feeling their pain. What has Canada done to bring an end to the car bombings, beheadings, drive-bys, and assasinations being committed by the foreign infiltrator terrorist groups using the Iraqi situation as an opportunity to wage war on their American enemies at any cost, no matter how many Iraqis they kill in the process. Get a grip on reality, or try to anyway. The brave country of Canada is "helping train" from "outside" the border of Iraq "where it's safe" and so as not to appear to in any way support the multinational coalition trying to rebuild the country and assist them in becoming self-governing and self sufficient once again. Canada does this, why. Out of hate for America. I'm sure the Iraqi people feel this is a good reason for us to turn our backs on them, or to HELP their killers murder them through our donations, and public "moral" support of their terrorist causes. That is good enough reason for us however, eh? We hate Americans. We can't seem to find anything else to focus on, can we. Regardless of what I say, or what you say, or what anybody else says...the people in Iraq know. They know the truth. The day will come when they are back on their feet again, and we ultra righteous Canadians will have an opportunity to face them, and explain to them how much we were there for them, and how much we helped them, how we fought for them, how we were there helping them rebuild their infrastructure, and protect them at the polling booths as they tried to reestablish self government. Have fun trying to tell someone their eyes and ears deceived them, and that contrary to what they witnessed in real life, you were actually there by their side helping them avoid the explosions of car bombs, shielding them from the bullets and shrapnell of suicide bombers and "courageous militants" doing their patriotic drive-by shootings of civilians, and ensuring no one was beheaded or tortured for wanting to vote, or for supporting the wrong political party. Long live the "leaf". Defender of freedom everywhere, eh?
Anti-Americanism. I can completely understand your position with regards to how absolutely RABID and FANATICAL we CANADIANS are towards the average SCHMUCK that visits from the States. It's all we can do to keep ourselves from tearing them "limb from limb", right?
You don't seem to be aware of the fact that US foreign policy hasn't exactly won much admiration from the international community. I mean even where countries ARE active in Iraq, the public opinion in those countries has overwhelmingly been opposed to the venture or did you miss all the global protests?
Maybe it isn't Canadians that have the problem, it might just be you.
Now, like long before, chickenhawks continue to convince themselves that they actually SPEAK for the Iraqis! You can't possibly be trying to justify your perceptions based on what you assume others might want just because you want it as well, can you? What a joke.
I might be mistaken but I'm fairly sure that the Iraqis didn't ask for the occupation bestowed upon them by the US. In fact, I'm more than certain they didn't want much of what has been dropped on them.
If you can't seem to get your head around the fact that people of any country would in no way tolerate the same atrocity happening to them as is occuring in Iraq without forming some type of resistance movement, I can understand why so many like you would think that granting others the "privilege" of picking a name of someone they never heard of before out of hundreds of others would be enough to satisfy every persons yearning for "Freedom"(R). You'd have to be as complacent as paul martin to believe that!
Hell, I'd even go so far as to hypothesise that simply the Rule of Law alone would be more than enough to satisfy most in Iraq. Like the saying goes: "with Saddam we at least had security, now we have nothing." No wonder a number are reminiscing the latter part of the Saddam era as "the good old days" just a few years hence.
you made my point for me very well, thank you very much. Now the evil Americans have "conquered" the innocent Iraqis you profess to care so much for and weren't there to help during the invasion. Where are you still? In Canada, dear "Canuck". Screaming like a raped ape at the U. S. of Whoever...meanwhile what's going on in Iraq? They're being murdered by outsiders who are neither American, nor Iraqi...where are you and your fellow "canucksters" right now? Really. And you aren't helping the Iraqi's now, why? Because of hate. Hate for America. Now THAT truly helps innocent Iraqis doesn't it my friend. They need you, they need me. They need every last bit of help they can get from ANYBODY. Not a global boycott on assistance because they had the misfortune to be invaded by AMERICA instead of Poland, or Algeria, or Greenland! Or whoever else. Who is paying the price RIGHT NOW for being invaded by America dumbass. You? Somehow I think it's still the Iraqis...regardless of what YOU think. Bye.
"you made my point for me very well, thank you very much."
What point? The part where you cry "anti-American" due to being thin-skinned? I didn't realise the term "schmuck" was considered hate speech (because I didn't mean it in a malicious manner)...
Exactly how do you jump to the conclusion that simply because I disagree with US policy, I automatically hate Americans? Here's some advice... Bush's little "you're either with us or against us" piece: utter bullshit.
Perhaps it is the part suggesting Iraq isn't prospering under the dominance of the US military? You talk like the US is there for the sole purose of defending Iraqi interests when the fact of the matter is the US has occupied Iraq to maintain its own security interests. There is nothing the US has successfully provided that Iraq didn't have before: schools, security, hospitals, electricity, water, even the odd election. In various places since the occupation Iraqis are still without basic utilities.
Exactly how is it that the US has "helped" Iraqis?
"And you aren't helping the Iraqi's now, why? Because of hate."
This is a good question that should have been answered a long time ago, but was never asked... similar to the build-up to the invasion, nobody seemed to care what Iraqis had to say, but just made assumptions about WMDs, empty allegations of terrorism and the like to justify invasion... it wouldn't have happened if people didn't hate enough to wage the war.
The answer to your question simply is: because it is not our help that the Iraqis asked for. What Iraqis wanted were the UN Santions to be lifted. Everything else could have been left in the hands of the Iraqi people, exactly where their power should be.
That is the most nauseating thing about this adventure in Iraq, if it was the suffering of the Iraqi people that the US wanted to alleviate, the Sanctions should have been put to an end. So face the facts, you are talking out of your ass when you speak of helping Iraqis. How can you help them if you don't listen to them?
"They're being murdered by outsiders who are neither American, nor Iraqi..."
What an odd statement... you say American bullets or cruelty doesn't kill civilians and not one Iraqi is angry with the US destroying his country? I fear far too many people seriously underestimate the escalating tension between the people and the occupying forces. Although, to be fair, the Americans are doing a bang-up job on their own.
Way too may people forget the "facts". Thank you for reiterating them here again for anyone thinking Iraq wants us in Iraq under US directive. Canada has forgiven Iraq's debt, and apparently has given $ in aid. Yet, even that will likely prove useless to Iraq as under Paul Bremmer's watch $9billion has gone missing. And the Oil for Food program is a scandal? Where's the outcry over this money? There is none instead Bremmer was given some kind of hero's medal?
--- "And those who were seen dancing were though to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Frederick Neitsche
Lets see,America installed Saddam,which means they were interfering in a forign country.Why?Perhaps it was because they wanted to help out in some way.Could have been the oil,but since america is so generous,it must have been something else,I mean would they fight over oil?Nah.
Then when old Saddam becomes a pain in the ass,they invade the country,killing,raping,destroying everything they can.
Somehow I get the feeling if they would mind their own business,a lot of the problems in Iraq would go away.
One question.When America "Liberates" Iraq,who is going to pay for all the reconstruction?
Fuck america!
"Canada has forgiven Iraq's debt, and apparently has given $ in aid."
And Canadian billionaire Paul Desmarais, Sr. via Power Corporation of Canada via Toal and BP Parabas MIGHT have stolen many times more $ from the Iraqi people's Oil For Food money than what "debt" Iraq owed Canada, and the pittance "donated" complete with strings by Canada to save face a little globally. There MIGHT be a connection to Jean Chretien, the Liberal party, and heaven forbid, POSSIBLY even Martin and Paul Desmarais, Sr.'s Power Corp. Time will tell how high the Canadian ideals actually were when it became time to side with France/Russia/Germany, or the rest of the world. China seems to have coincidentally voted it's ideals, not it's wallet, as did the 3 amigos mentioned above. China has always been known for simply doing their own thing. Where was the money for Canada? Who would have been the biggest losers if Saddam's government fell? You have the capability to figure it out on your own with a little effort after a few hints I am sure. I see enough intelligence there, as well as a desire for truth, for that to be very possible.
Getting back to the point. If there still is one. Living in the present and not the past...who is in desperate need of help? And why aren't they getting it? After seeing everyone falling all over each other to out "donate" the other guy for tsunami victims, it would appear as though Iraqis simply had the misfortune to be born in the wrong country at the wrong time. If they had been devastated by a tsunami, we'd be all over them with aid money and trying to protect them while they're vulnerable. The poor bastards didn't have the GOOD fortune to be hit by a tsunami, or some other "cool" thing. They had the misfortune to be devastated by America, so aid to them and protecting them while vulnerable is taboo for French/Canadian/German people. Again I ask why? Again the anser is ego, pride, hate, whatever you want to call it. Nationalism. The stupid so and so's went and got themselves blown to pieces by America, so therefore we can not help them...leperosy. That's not cool, eh. Can't touch them.
You know what? I'm done with this whole thing. I hope that in the future Canada is never invaded by the United States. We'll be lepers too. No aid for us. The world will stand by and armchair quarterback what America is doing from the safety of their living room, and watch predatory types exploit our misery for their own gain (and blame it on either us, or the Americans). They won't lift a finger to help. We could ask on the world stage for help...in as many international forums as possible as the Iraqis did...and we'll be ignored as if we are tainted somehow and beyond helping. We'll be totally at America and the predator's mercy. We'll be totally screwed. And the reason? Once again,in case no one got it the first however many times...we were invaded by the wrong country...America...being invaded by America isn't cool, is it. No...let's make sure that whatever happens in the future we are NOT invaded by America lest we be blackballed by the other countries out there in the world that are like us. And then all we will be good for is entertainment on the nightly news...they'll not care, but they'll check every once in a while anyway to see how many of us got killed that day so they can point at America and say "see...told you so, you bastards"...as WE bleed...and they'll be patting each other on the backs, telling one another how "right" they are, and how "wrong" America is...while WE bleed.
I don't do the praying thing very often, or very well (lacking experience) but I will now...Oh, Lord...God...PLEASE, if we're to ever be invaded here in Canada...PLEASE let it be Chile...Tibet...Switzerland...Sweden...Romania...The Ivory Coast...Oh, Lord...ANYBODY but AMERICA!!! Amen...
"...late Sunday in Baghad, attackers beat three watchmen and set the headquarters of the Communist Party in the Sadr City neighbourhood on fire, party member Kadim al-Saadi said. It was unclear why the office was targeted."
The above is quoted from Today's edition of "The Globe And Mail"
Interestingly enough, the expansion of her communist party was Sgrena's pet project in Iraq. The Italian communist Party in conjunction with her employer, the communist journal Il Manifesto sent her there with this express purpose. There seem to be many "agendas" in Iraq after the fall of Saddam. The communist party agenda, which the Iraqi people apparently don't want anymore than they want to be dominated by American interests, is most likely why she was taken hostage in the first place. Interesting how her story "evolved" also, wasn't it? From the time she was recovered by coalition forces after her encounter with the security checkpoint...up until she was nestled safely back in the arms of her fellow communist/activist journalists, and party leaders, and could be given the "proper" story to "report" to the world. The Iraqi's apparently didn't buy it anymore than anyone else in the world (outside of Russia, France, and Canada) did. In the best traditions of TASS, communist journalism has continued to be above reproach in truthful, and accurate "reporting", has it not? Toodles...
You seem to to be trying to confuse the oil-for-food scandal with the Iraq Reconstruction Fund callamity. Two very different situations. Here, 4Canada is talking about the latter... and she is absolutely right. Of the tens of billions of dollars set aside for reconstruction, very little has been spent. However, what has been spent went mostly to Halliburton who charged many times more for what its work was worth or simply didn't do the work for which it was paid for.
So should we be donating money to a cause that will see it all disappear into the pockets of bush's or cheney's cronies?
And this brings up another point. As awful as some think patronage/cronyism, is in Canada it's ten times worse in the US...
If you don't trust American's (which is obvious), there IS an Iraqi ambassador to Canada who would be happy to hear from all of you concerned Canuckians who wish to help, but are fearful of George Bush, or Dick Cheney using your hardly earned ( oops, hard-earned, sorry ) money to buy their next Big Mac and side of fries. Or maybe that famous "DART" aid package could be useful in some areas. Or even a Canuckian Mountie or two, here or there? How about a security protection force for some of their power stations, schools, libraries, hospitals, etcetera? You could send all five Canadian soldiers to help them out. BTW...out of curiosity, that money that supposedly can not be accounted for (that is but a drop in a bucket compared to what the Desmarais/Chretien/Chirac scam siphoned)...who was it that "donated" the vast majority of it, only to have it "disappear" back into their own pockets? If in fact it DID "disappear" back into their own pockets. Excuses are like a**holes...everybody has one, eh? Some are just more objectionable than others I suppose...
If I'm reading my anons accurately, I believe you were the one that suggested we not believe unnamed sources. You are unnamed. What exactly do you you think we will gain by delving into your Power Corp obsession? We are not defending anyone here that you are suggesting has committed crimes. And why not just come out and tell us the crimes once you get a name so we can then find you more credible?
I think you may have a larger and more appreciative audience getting your own blog and then let us know the number so we can call you.
--- "And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche
What it is this? The fifth, sixth time she's changed her story. We know the checkpoint was there, we know the car was warned, we know they were speeding (speeding at a checkpoint! you hardly need to watch the news to know what happens when you do that) and we know that she went to Iraq with a clear intent of creating an incident... she's said as much. So she gives herself to some terrorists... maybe... who get a couple million dollars from the Italian people so they kill more Iraqis. Real brilliant.
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Stumble It!
Typical American attitude.
You don't seem to be aware of the fact that US foreign policy hasn't exactly won much admiration from the international community. I mean even where countries ARE active in Iraq, the public opinion in those countries has overwhelmingly been opposed to the venture or did you miss all the global protests?
Maybe it isn't Canadians that have the problem, it might just be you.
Now, like long before, chickenhawks continue to convince themselves that they actually SPEAK for the Iraqis! You can't possibly be trying to justify your perceptions based on what you assume others might want just because you want it as well, can you? What a joke.
I might be mistaken but I'm fairly sure that the Iraqis didn't ask for the occupation bestowed upon them by the US. In fact, I'm more than certain they didn't want much of what has been dropped on them.
If you can't seem to get your head around the fact that people of any country would in no way tolerate the same atrocity happening to them as is occuring in Iraq without forming some type of resistance movement, I can understand why so many like you would think that granting others the "privilege" of picking a name of someone they never heard of before out of hundreds of others would be enough to satisfy every persons yearning for "Freedom"(R). You'd have to be as complacent as paul martin to believe that!
Hell, I'd even go so far as to hypothesise that simply the Rule of Law alone would be more than enough to satisfy most in Iraq. Like the saying goes: "with Saddam we at least had security, now we have nothing." No wonder a number are reminiscing the latter part of the Saddam era as "the good old days" just a few years hence.
What point? The part where you cry "anti-American" due to being thin-skinned? I didn't realise the term "schmuck" was considered hate speech (because I didn't mean it in a malicious manner)...
Exactly how do you jump to the conclusion that simply because I disagree with US policy, I automatically hate Americans? Here's some advice... Bush's little "you're either with us or against us" piece: utter bullshit.
Perhaps it is the part suggesting Iraq isn't prospering under the dominance of the US military? You talk like the US is there for the sole purose of defending Iraqi interests when the fact of the matter is the US has occupied Iraq to maintain its own security interests. There is nothing the US has successfully provided that Iraq didn't have before: schools, security, hospitals, electricity, water, even the odd election. In various places since the occupation Iraqis are still without basic utilities.
Exactly how is it that the US has "helped" Iraqis?
"And you aren't helping the Iraqi's now, why? Because of hate."
This is a good question that should have been answered a long time ago, but was never asked... similar to the build-up to the invasion, nobody seemed to care what Iraqis had to say, but just made assumptions about WMDs, empty allegations of terrorism and the like to justify invasion... it wouldn't have happened if people didn't hate enough to wage the war.
The answer to your question simply is: because it is not our help that the Iraqis asked for. What Iraqis wanted were the UN Santions to be lifted. Everything else could have been left in the hands of the Iraqi people, exactly where their power should be.
That is the most nauseating thing about this adventure in Iraq, if it was the suffering of the Iraqi people that the US wanted to alleviate, the Sanctions should have been put to an end. So face the facts, you are talking out of your ass when you speak of helping Iraqis. How can you help them if you don't listen to them?
"They're being murdered by outsiders who are neither American, nor Iraqi..."
What an odd statement... you say American bullets or cruelty doesn't kill civilians and not one Iraqi is angry with the US destroying his country? I fear far too many people seriously underestimate the escalating tension between the people and the occupying forces. Although, to be fair, the Americans are doing a bang-up job on their own.
Way too may people forget the "facts". Thank you for reiterating them here again for anyone thinking Iraq wants us in Iraq under US directive. Canada has forgiven Iraq's debt, and apparently has given $ in aid. Yet, even that will likely prove useless to Iraq as under Paul Bremmer's watch $9billion has gone missing. And the Oil for Food program is a scandal? Where's the outcry over this money? There is none instead Bremmer was given some kind of hero's medal?
---
"And those who were seen dancing were though to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Frederick Neitsche
Then when old Saddam becomes a pain in the ass,they invade the country,killing,raping,destroying everything they can.
Somehow I get the feeling if they would mind their own business,a lot of the problems in Iraq would go away.
One question.When America "Liberates" Iraq,who is going to pay for all the reconstruction?
Fuck america!
And Canadian billionaire Paul Desmarais, Sr. via Power Corporation of Canada via Toal and BP Parabas MIGHT have stolen many times more $ from the Iraqi people's Oil For Food money than what "debt" Iraq owed Canada, and the pittance "donated" complete with strings by Canada to save face a little globally. There MIGHT be a connection to Jean Chretien, the Liberal party, and heaven forbid, POSSIBLY even Martin and Paul Desmarais, Sr.'s Power Corp. Time will tell how high the Canadian ideals actually were when it became time to side with France/Russia/Germany, or the rest of the world. China seems to have coincidentally voted it's ideals, not it's wallet, as did the 3 amigos mentioned above. China has always been known for simply doing their own thing. Where was the money for Canada? Who would have been the biggest losers if Saddam's government fell? You have the capability to figure it out on your own with a little effort after a few hints I am sure. I see enough intelligence there, as well as a desire for truth, for that to be very possible.
Getting back to the point. If there still is one. Living in the present and not the past...who is in desperate need of help? And why aren't they getting it? After seeing everyone falling all over each other to out "donate" the other guy for tsunami victims, it would appear as though Iraqis simply had the misfortune to be born in the wrong country at the wrong time. If they had been devastated by a tsunami, we'd be all over them with aid money and trying to protect them while they're vulnerable. The poor bastards didn't have the GOOD fortune to be hit by a tsunami, or some other "cool" thing. They had the misfortune to be devastated by America, so aid to them and protecting them while vulnerable is taboo for French/Canadian/German people. Again I ask why? Again the anser is ego, pride, hate, whatever you want to call it. Nationalism. The stupid so and so's went and got themselves blown to pieces by America, so therefore we can not help them...leperosy. That's not cool, eh. Can't touch them.
You know what? I'm done with this whole thing. I hope that in the future Canada is never invaded by the United States. We'll be lepers too. No aid for us. The world will stand by and armchair quarterback what America is doing from the safety of their living room, and watch predatory types exploit our misery for their own gain (and blame it on either us, or the Americans). They won't lift a finger to help. We could ask on the world stage for help...in as many international forums as possible as the Iraqis did...and we'll be ignored as if we are tainted somehow and beyond helping. We'll be totally at America and the predator's mercy. We'll be totally screwed. And the reason? Once again,in case no one got it the first however many times...we were invaded by the wrong country...America...being invaded by America isn't cool, is it. No...let's make sure that whatever happens in the future we are NOT invaded by America lest we be blackballed by the other countries out there in the world that are like us. And then all we will be good for is entertainment on the nightly news...they'll not care, but they'll check every once in a while anyway to see how many of us got killed that day so they can point at America and say "see...told you so, you bastards"...as WE bleed...and they'll be patting each other on the backs, telling one another how "right" they are, and how "wrong" America is...while WE bleed.
I don't do the praying thing very often, or very well (lacking experience) but I will now...Oh, Lord...God...PLEASE, if we're to ever be invaded here in Canada...PLEASE let it be Chile...Tibet...Switzerland...Sweden...Romania...The Ivory Coast...Oh, Lord...ANYBODY but AMERICA!!! Amen...
The above is quoted from Today's edition of "The Globe And Mail"
Interestingly enough, the expansion of her communist party was Sgrena's pet project in Iraq. The Italian communist Party in conjunction with her employer, the communist journal Il Manifesto sent her there with this express purpose. There seem to be many "agendas" in Iraq after the fall of Saddam. The communist party agenda, which the Iraqi people apparently don't want anymore than they want to be dominated by American interests, is most likely why she was taken hostage in the first place. Interesting how her story "evolved" also, wasn't it? From the time she was recovered by coalition forces after her encounter with the security checkpoint...up until she was nestled safely back in the arms of her fellow communist/activist journalists, and party leaders, and could be given the "proper" story to "report" to the world. The Iraqi's apparently didn't buy it anymore than anyone else in the world (outside of Russia, France, and Canada) did. In the best traditions of TASS, communist journalism has continued to be above reproach in truthful, and accurate "reporting", has it not? Toodles...
So should we be donating money to a cause that will see it all disappear into the pockets of bush's or cheney's cronies?
And this brings up another point. As awful as some think patronage/cronyism, is in Canada it's ten times worse in the US...
I think you may have a larger and more appreciative audience getting your own blog and then let us know the number so we can call you.
---
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche