In Defence Of M.P. Garth Turner
Posted on Wednesday, November 15 at 08:36 by Wayne Coady
If you were to examine the party system, you would find that the wining governing party always takes revenge and punishes the losing parties by refusing to provide equal service or funding to those constituencies where they did not win the vote, now how can this be a good governing system? Governing political parties even punish those regional municipal governments, if their happens to be a Mayor who was once a known party member of the opposite party, this is not good governance, it is revenge governance and it is time we got rid of it.
You see political parties have been taken over by big lobby groups, like lawyers, unions and a few other special interest groups, these groups and old party hacks use the party system to high-jack what was one the people “government”, to further and feather their own nest, while the majority of we taxpayers become nothing more than the means to raise finances through taxation, which these groups and hacks, tend to help themselves to.
Our taxation system has turned into an extortion system, we are told our taxes are required to finance the public infrastructure, when in fact our taxes are also used to finance wealthy corporations, when if fact these corporations should seek business loans from the Canadian banking system, if taxes are to high for these business, then maybe there should be a flat tax, maybe adjusted so they are only paying on those services and the public infrastructure they use. Example, health, highway, policing, water sewage and military.
M.P. Garth Turner is living proof that the party system is out of control and out of date with Canadians. There have been other elected politicians who also were sent down the road by the party system, because they spoke up.
Anyone who thinks the party was justified in booting out M.P. Turner, surely does not understand democracy, or the purpose of voting and they do not understand why those who died in both Great Wars died, or today why our brave Canadian soldiers where sent into Afghanistan . If we are going to defend democracy in other countries, then we better practice what we claim to believe in right here at home in Canada , right now.
The question I must ask is this, “who is served when we ask our Canadian Military to defend the democratic rights of those citizens in Afghanistan or Iraq, then turn right around here in Canada and silence the voice of its own citizens, and those we elect such as MP Garth Turner, how is this defending democracy? When you silence those voice we elect, and place them under the party whips control, we are crushing democracy and if the party controls the candidate, how can one call the party system democratic?
In closing, I want to thank Independent M.P. Garth Turner for inviting Canadians into his form PromisesKept.ca . M.P. Garth Turner has opened the door for us to rally alongside him , in his journey to get more recognition for independent candidates in the House of Commons, it is time the people had a voice and it is time we push for reforms to our political structure.
Thank you M.P. Garth Turner for providing Canadians with this opportunity and form
Respectfully
Wayne Coady
Cole Harbour
Nova Scotia
B2V-1Z2
Wcoady@accesswave.ca
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"You see political parties have been taken over by big lobby groups, like lawyers, unions and a few other special interest groups, these groups and old party hacks use the party system to high-jack what was one the people “government”, to further and feather their own nest, while the majority of we taxpayers become nothing more than the means to raise finances through taxation, which these groups and hacks, tend to help themselves to."
This also was the jist and driving force behind the old Reform Party. Cliche's and drivel, rhetoric and no substance. Rally the isolated and lonely into a different kind of tribe, is all. Anything with power is the enemy. Appeal to the disaffected to become a quasi-political party and watch them disintegrate from within.
The experiment has been tried. The non-party party just sapped energy and support from the other parties. We saw no brilliance.
Running around without political philosophies just personalities, doesn't make the right things magically happen.
I see an irrational reverence for the wisdom of individuals in the article and a bias against any form of collective or group activity. What's up with that?
Disagreeing within your party is most common. Speaking out against your party is a thing of conscience that it comes to sometimes. Leaving your party is the exptreme but necessary sometimes for individuals. Getting kicked out is very rare.
I see no logic or argument that gets us to; political parties are no good, from that.
Now lets just conclude that political parties like any other groups are sometimes unfair, undemocratic and dictatorial.
BTW, my biggest button here was the outright anti-union trite propaganda contained within the article. Unlike "big lobby groups, lawyers, and some other special interest groups", Unions are actually more often democratic and socially progressive.
Turner pissed someone off big time. He was victimized and poorly treated by his own party. He is not a saint for that. His party sucks though. All parties suck?...Not!
What people need to understand is that Turner accepted all the manipulation and undemocratic actions of the backroom boys club who decided that the merger of the CA and PC Parties was the only way to gain electoral power. He never complained when money contributed to rebuild the PC Party was used to destroy it.
There was not a peep from him when the National Council of the party was then betrayed by the leader. He never complained when the party removed David Orchard's membership. It is only when he became the victim of the system that he changed his tune.
In that sense he cannot claim the higher ground. It appears to be true that over the years the role of the leader as dictator has been solidified and the role of the back bench MP has become largely irrelevant. At the same time party discipline has become even tighter and more partisan, a point that Ed Broadbent made when he returned to the House of Commons.
It may not be the party system itself that is to blame for the lack of democracy but the fact that political parties are private organizations whose constitutions are not worth the paper on which they are written. The leader has almost total power under the Electins Act. A start would be the requirement that the constitutions have important legal standing with the same kind of processes that any employer has to follow to dismiss an employee.
Ask “don’t vote, eh” Wayne<br />
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The smoothed down feathers and fur of the political beasties require a going over every once and a while. It is time for Canada’s beasties to be caged, although I must admit they are a ‘cagey lot’ as they now stand.<br />
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The very first thing one must get into their head is when it comes to identifying exactly who the culprits are few look in the mirror.<br />
I speak from my experience as it is the only true guide I have. <br />
Until these later years of my life I, like so many others, operated from what I was indoctrinated with, whether those indoctrinations came from family or other propagandists.<br />
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Wayne is sorta right on his assessment of what the party system has become. BUT the take over began long before corporations achieved personhood status, all that did was cinch the deal.<br />
No brilliance was seen to be seen because attention was focused in the wrong quarter. <br />
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Brilliance was and has always been with those who clawed their way to the top hundreds of years ago: Bankers, to whom ALL debt (private, governmental and business) is owed.<br />
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Brilliance is the hiring of PR firms to spin minds away from what actually happened to some diversion<br />
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I offer the Ludlow Massacre<br />
<a href="http://www.mediachannel.org/views/interviews/ewen.shtml">http://www.mediachannel.org/views/interviews/ewen.shtml</a> <br />
and…<br />
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<a href="http://www.rit.edu/~cma8660/mirror/www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/prologue8.htm">http://www.rit.edu/~cma8660/mirror/www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/prologue8.htm</a> <br />
“”My worry was about finding a prominent ally to help me present this idea that inhuman anthropology is what we confront in our institutional schools, not conspiracy. The hunt paid off with the discovery of an analysis of the Ludlow Massacre by Walter Lippmann in the New Republic of January 30, 1915. Following the Rockefeller slaughter of up to forty-seven, mostly women and children, in the tent camp of striking miners at Ludlow, Colorado, a congressional investigation was held which put John D. Rockefeller Jr. on the defensive. Rockefeller agents had employed armored cars, machine guns, and fire bombs in his name. As Lippmann tells it, Rockefeller was charged with having the only authority to authorize such a massacre, but also with too much indifference to what his underlings were up to. "Clearly," said the industrial magnate, "both cannot be true."””<br />
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Unions like other segments of society are hierarchical so hold no exalted status when it comes to being democratic and socially progressive.<br />
Unions, like society are only as good as their participants.<br />
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<p>---<br>Diogenes said:<br />
"I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."
Your point I guess was to only pretend to stick up for the "Defence of MP Garth Turner" or was it to say Harper wasn't probably directly responsible (it must have taken up a life of its own in the Conservative Party). (kidding)
I'll go with you that hierarchies are only as good as their leaders and on occasion, not democratic (sure we'll include Unions, societies, governments, hockey league associations, Credit Unions whatever you want, that tries to be democratic). By trying to be democratic they are all a far cry from the true dictatorships in our society where the hierarchy gets absolute power not subject to anything. These are the corporations and much less likely to have a responsibility to others.
Why the heck are we including unions (and now corporations) in this discussion by the way? From the Article we have:
"It is time for Canada to review it’s antiquated party system, it is time for the citizens to take back their “government” from these political parties, onetime political parties were useful , much like unions, both have gone beyond what and why they were set up. In other words unions and political parties have gone well beyond their mandate and are out of control."
I think the "defence" author links the spin doctored propaganda of the powerful, that is pounded into and seeping into our collective misundersting that unions are:... no longer useful...they go beyond what and why they were set up for (into politics for example)...they are well beyond their mandate and out of control (strikes abound no doubt)....
all just to also pin these "truisms" onto political parties in order to get a buy-in on his thesis that political parties are bad. (as bad as unions, no less)
It really isn't brilliant y'know. (the lying and spinning)
I'll be sticking up for Unions or anthing else that is improperly maligned and used like this. (except lawyers and something as amorphous as other special interest groups...not the real target)
As I said before, unions are indeed OFTEN democratic and socially progressive.
Sometimes not you say? Sure. Sometimes individuals are not as well. (no point there that I can make out)
If I may interject. I believe that you both are agreeing only using different terms.
Unions like other segments of society are hierarchical so hold no exalted status when it comes to being democratic and socially progressive.
Unions, like society are only as good as their participants
Unions can infact be called political parties. Their ideals are for their own betterment and for their members. These parties are only as good as their members. CAP is the new face on the block but consists of members who attempt to project the ideals of the public voter. Yet CAP is still a union. It consists specifically of private members. As much as it is needed, few voters will do the homework and vote for the individual whe best talks for them. A party/union is easier. People go to malls so they don't have to be selective. Seems sad that we have a party system only because it's easier to vote in a lump sum rather then pick and choose.
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Expect little from life and get more from it.
My father helped bring unionism to BC bac in the early 1920's and my sympathies have alway lain with the principles of unionism, until that is I discouvered co-ops and profit sharing based on ownership or having an interest in the company one put the labour into.<br />
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Unions of to-day are in bed withte employers and out here in BC The nurses where hung out to dry by the leadership<br />
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We were so close to bringing down Crooked-mouth and the leader ship caved<br />
On to "brilliance?<br />
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Rockefeller and the intenational banking cartells are hardly what can be called idiots.<br />
Ans while i hold then in high distain i also admire them for the grip they have and how they work the hoi-poloi.<br />
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Did they lie? you bet your ass they did <br />
But ask your self who bought the lies before blame is asigned <br />
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<a href="http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45b/030.html">http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45b/030.html</a><br />
it is aid that John D dance with the widows of the slaughter miners at Ludlow, <br />
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I see boflaade has added something whil i hunt and peck and bring up other windows> You may have a point boflaade<br />
I dont underestimate my advasaries (Rockefellers and the like) <p>---<br>Diogenes said:<br />
"I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."
Individuals can be wise, but collectives cannot. There is no such thing as a "collective will". The can be consensus on the part of a majority of a group on certain issues, but a collective in and of itself has no will, and no wisdom.
So-called collectives are merely a conceptual device used by a small number or individuals (or a single individual) to control a larger number.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
--Kay, Men in Black
"Men go crazy in congregations. They only get better one by one."
--Sting
"There are just two rules of governance in a free society: Mind your own business. Keep your hands to yourself."
--P.J. O'Rourke