And with U.S. Consul General Jessica LeCroy attending the event, which was officially known as the Canadian Unity Council's Young Leaders' luncheon, I was prepared for a frank and feisty exchange of arguments and opinions.
Then I remembered we're Canadians. We don't argue -- we have polite discussions.
But if one theme emerged from the civil seminar with students at Western's Medway Hall, it was that Canadians like to think we're different from Americans -- but we're really not that different at all.
"Overall, there are more similarities than differences," said Ed Grabb, a sociology professor with Western's centre for American studies.
"We're not as different as we think we are."
During a group discussion led by Grabb, UWO students pointed out the obvious similarities between the two nations: Our shared popular culture, our shared language and our like-minded democratic values.
But when it came time to define the differences, Grabb -- who admitted he grew up in Chatham watching Detroit TV telecasts of Soupy Sales -- punctured many of the students' perceptions.
For example, one student said the U.S. is plagued by far more crime than Canada.
But Grabb pointed out that while the U.S. homicide rate is about three times higher than Canada's, the rates of other crimes are quite similar. In fact, Grabb said, statistics show Canada's auto theft and burglary rates exceed U.S. rates.
When a student pointed to Canada's cultural diversity, Grabb said that while both countries are nations of immigrants, there are more visible minorities in the U.S.
When another student brought up Canada's role as an international peacekeeper, Grabb said that image is misleading. He said that in terms of actual peacekeeping duties and resources, Canada ranks in the bottom three or four of the world's 70 or so peacekeeping nations.
And when somebody suggested Canadians put more trust in elected officials, Grabb disputed that, too.
"Forty years ago, we showed more deference to our politicians," he said later in an interview. "But in the last 20 or 30 years, (polls show) we don't trust them and we don't think they listen to what we say."
And while much of yesterday's round-table conversation centred on criticism of the U.S., Grabb pointed out there's much to praise.
"They really know what it means to be generous and merciful. They spend more in foreign aid than anyone else," he said. "Even though there's a fight over the UN, they pay for about 40 per cent of its cost. People forget about that."
Discussion participants generally agreed Canadians know far more about Americans than they know about us. During one round-table, a student recounted how during a recent Florida vacation, he met a University of Michigan student who didn't know where Ontario was.
But Grabb pointed out that if one discounts the more extremist segments of each nation (Quebec and the southern states), the prevailing attitudes of most Americans and Canadians are remarkably alike.
"They tend to ignore us a bit and they'll push us around with softwood lumber and so on, but overall we're close," he said. "While we're going through a period of divergence, it's a cyclical time line. We never get so far apart that we can't get back together."
Asked about our national differences, LeCroy was diplomatic.
"I look at Canada not as a foreign country, but as a different country," the consul general said. "I see everything in nuanced terms."
In the end, the consensus seemed to be the two nations aren't quite sisters -- maybe more like cousins.
"If we wanted to pick a neighbour, we could certainly do a lot worse," said Grabb.
That may be true. But it's definitely polite.
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Opinion/Columnists/Gillespie_Ian/2005/09/23/pf-1231328.html
[Proofreader's note: this article was edited for spelling and typos on September 25, 2005]
Note: http://lfpress.ca/newss...
Canada And U.S. Not So Different
Posted on Saturday, September 24 at 12:50 by jensonjContributed By
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Canadians don't put their hand over their hearts and count their pulse rising when the national anthem plays. We smile ironically and look at each other as one or two people carry the tune.
The most important difference is the sense of entitlement. Americans are born taught that they deserve respect because they are American. Canadians, on the other hand, are gradually acclimatized to being disrespected.
Also, Canadian cities are much more relaxed and laid back than American cities of comparable sizes. Toronto feels like a comfy, almost sleepy city compared to New York or Washington. Vancouver and Victoria are even more laid back.
G
You are proud of this? Sneering at your own countrymen?
People like you appear to be pround of the fact that Canada has no defenses, no relevancy in the rest of the world, and actually has no justification to exist!
Lack of strong Federalism in Canada is one of the main reasons why we are such a regionally divided country and makes us easy targets to prod the sentiments to fight internally with each other. National Unity is a rational reason for each of us to understand regional differences and to project a strong united front through Federalism and our national government. It is unfortunate however that the provinces have as much power as they do and are therefore only concerned about their own standings instead of our collective greatness.
Canada does have relevancy in the world and we must continue to exert ourselves both domestically and internationally. If we stick together and do not let the United States whether directly or indirectly tear us apart then we have loudly echoed a justification to exist. If we sit on our asses for too long and think everything is fine and dandy without, at least, contributing to the awareness of these issues then we will not exist one day.
I hope it never comes to that because I will be a Canadian until I die and nothing else first!!!
- Alexander T. Bussmann
As for Maritimers calling "Ontario" the "united state of america," being a Maritimer, from generations of maritime family (dating back to 1750s), I can honestly say that I have never heard that lark before. Much more common jokes refer to "Upper Canada" or the fact that many maritimers still feel as though Boston was their genuine capital. When my family raised a Canadian flag on the coast, we were asked to take it down. It was sabotaged a few times. That was over twenty years ago. Now, it's true, most families or areas have one.
Here's another story for you. One Hallowe-en in Toronto, I dressed up as "Captain Canada" and party hopped to three different parties. At each one I won the "Best Costume" award, which left me with $50, a 2-4 of Keiths, and a small bag of sweet smelling narcotics. Sweet! Coming home on the subway, I entered the car and people cheered. A group started singing the national anthem at the other end, and before long the whole car was roaring along. Everybody cheered loudly at the end. It was strangely emotional.
And just to clarify, for the sake of various Anonymice, that little list I offered above mentions nothing about "taking pride" in those differences. I just listed a few of the differences I feel and have seen over the years. They are not something to take pride in -- just details of the natural landscape. They are also things the original article attempted to gloss over, which I feel was inappropriate or inaccurate.
G
The comments about their national capital being Boston is simply a variation of the line I used, no doubt it changes in different areas of the maritimes, but the theme is the same-that Ontario is as 'american' as the states, and of course it runs Canada.
Polls are notoriously unreliable, that's why I find it pointless to argue about 'who has the most pride in Canada'. In fact I don't even know what THAT means. If I go through all the actions of our federal government over the past twenty years there are few things that make me 'proud'. Of course when people are drunk there's all kinds of sentiment that comes out, that's why beer is served at sporting events-how else can you get rational people to get excited about a bunch of strangers, most of whom don't live in your town, playing a game most of us quite playing when we grew up.
I'm not expressing derision or pride or confidence in polls, I'm just talking about the fact that our federal government has EXTREMELY strong powers, and that doesn't even count the subtle yet evident power that comes from handing out the cheques. Not to mention that if a province ever tried deviating from NAFTA the federal government has no choice but to make them conform to it's regulations. The only place where the feds don't take power is where they don't WANT power, namely in the direct implementation of most programs. That way, when they gut social spending they can point at the Premiers and say "not my problem".
Canada helped the US and France stage a coup d' tat in Haiti, exiling the elected president and installing a fascist dictator. We help protect that regime from democratic forces while their "police" (ex army people that replaced the real police) massacre pro-democracy or suspected pro-democracy groups.
We did this because Aristide would not sell off Haiti's public infrastructure, privatize the phone system and national concrete company (which sold for $6 million when it can earn $30 million a year).
Canadians are pro-democracy and anti-war, yet Canada is pro-war, pro-fascist, and pro-murder. Our actions abroad belie our delusional self-image.
"The only places you don't see strong federalism is in the 'have' provinces, because they know they don't need federal money."
To which I countered that Ontarians and Albertans are HUGE proponents of Canadian federalism.
And no, the maritime quip about Boston and the one you offered are not at all connected. The maritime claim on Boston is that New England is itself a stand-alone "nation" with its capital being Boston. It is, in fact, very close to saying that we maritimers are more American than Canadian, culturally at least. It does not claim that Ontario is the most "American" province in any way -- a claim that I have only ever heard from British Columbians (with their soft Californian drawl).
And what's so confusing about the idea of pride? Pride is either present in a person'a opinion of something or not. Like the idea of "soul", pride does not ask to be substantiated nor quantified. When you take out your ruling stick you are missing the point of pride (or soul, for that matter) entirely. Pride is a reflection of identification. It has nothing to do with the Federal Government, even though the Feds are the most obvious symbol of the Canadian nation.
As for the subway story -- note that while I was admittedly inebriated, everybody else on the train were not in costumes, nor were they (necessarily) drunk -- but who knows, right? They were just regular city folk. It was a spontaneous flare up of national feeling. I witnessed a number of incidents like this (on a much larger scale) in Victoria in 1999 -- gutteral, emotional responses to patriotic symbolism.
Ironically, it is often said that these moments of patriotism connect us most directly with our Southern cousins, who are more famous for garrish displays of pride. Of course, that presumes that Americans have a stranglehold on national fervour. Anybody who believes that has obviously never been to England (from whom Canada has traditionally learned), let alone Australia, China, etc etc. The most patriotic people I've ever met were actually Cubans -- to the point that it was almost annoying to talk to them.
G