Scofflaw

Posted on Wednesday, June 07 at 08:56 by Reverend Blair
“2. For the purpose of determining whether there are such grounds, the competent authorities shall take into account all relevant considerations including, where applicable, the existence in the State concerned of a consistent pattern of gross, flagrant or mass violations of human rights.”

Canada is a signatory to the Convention Against Torture and by handing prisoners over to countries we know commit torture, we are breaking international law. By requiring our soldiers to hand prisoners over, we are putting those soldiers at risk of facing charges. The common wisdom is that we need not worry because charges will never be brought forth, but there is no statute of limitations on this law and a relatively small change in the international political situation can change the common wisdom rather abruptly.

Our soldiers seem to have at least some awareness of being at risk of running afoul of international law. There have been at least two cases of Canadian soldiers refusing to hand over prisoners to Afghan officials because those officials were likely to kill the prisoners immediately. The prisoners were handed over to other officials later on though, as per our agreement with the Afghan government. While the latter officials were less likely to perform a summary execution, the prisoners still face beatings and torture, as well possible extradition to a third country that commits torture. The prisoners may still face a death sentence.

According to legal opinions written for the Polaris Institute by Professor Michael Byers of the University of British Colombia and Professor Amir Attaran of the University of Ottawa, our handing over of prisoners puts our soldiers at risk of facing charges at the International Criminal Court and may have them violating our own Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

According to Byers, “The Canada-Afghanistan Arrangement, by failing to safeguard Canada’s obligations under the 1949 Geneva Conventions, the 1984 UN Torture Convention and the 1998 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, is an inadequate basis for the transfer of detainees to the custody of Afghanistan.

“In these circumstances, Canada should, at a minimum, renegotiate the Arrangement to include all the protections found in The Netherlands-Afghanistan Memorandum. A better approach would be for Canada to build its own detention facility in Afghanistan, perhaps in conjunction with The Netherlands or some other country which wishes to maintain its soldiers in Afghanistan while adhering to the requirements of international law.”

Attaran, dealing with the subject of Charter violations, writes, “Putting these threads of Charter law together, it stands to reason that the Arrangement, which has as its object to authorize Canadian Forces to arrest and detain persons, and to transfer them to Afghanistan, despite credible evidence of a substantial risk of torture, infringes section 7 of the Charter. Whether this infringement is unconstitutional depends on whether it is done, in the words of section 7, “in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice”. In several cases, the Supreme Court has held that “fundamental justice” means giving the affected person a judicial, quasi-judicial or administrative process or hearing, in which the person or competent legal counsel has a fair opportunity to oppose the infringement of section 7 rights. The requirements of “fundamental justice” run along a spectrum, such that the more serious is an infringement of rights—and torture is extremely serious—the more thoroughgoing that process or hearing must be.”

The solution put forth by Byers and Attaran is for Canada, possibly in collaboration with The Netherlands or another nation that abides by international law, to open our own prison in Afghanistan. While that solution is logistically difficult and would prove to be expensive, it is the best way to meet our international obligations and ensure that our soldiers do not face charges in the future because they followed orders based on what was convenient for our politicians.

Building a prison run by the Afghans, but overseen by Canada and other NATO countries, would allow us to train Afghan officials to abide by international conventions and leave something lasting behind, as Professor Attaran pointed out to CTV Newsnet.

Attaran is right. If Canada wants to help to solve problems in countries such as Afghanistan, a logical step would be to insist that they rise to our level of respect for international law. Instead we seem to be all too willing to sink to the level of those who see international law as an obstacle to be overcome. Cooperating with those who choose to ignore international law is not only damaging to Canada’s reputation as a champion of human rights, but serves to undermine our stated mission of spreading democratic values.

General Rick Hillier sees nothing wrong with handing prisoners over to the Afghans under the present deal. In fact, he signed the deal. “Under their laws and their government, we hand the prisoners to them.

“It's the right thing to do and we take steps to try and ensure in all the best ways we possibly can that their treatment is absolutely right and appropriate. We're confident in that,” Canada.com quoted Hillier as saying.

Hillier is not an expert on international law, has made questionable statements in the past, and is in a position where there are political pressures on him. He may be confident, but many experts on international law have many questions about the possible ramifications of our actions as detailed in John McNamer’s Research Brief that was released in February 2006. The issue of handing over prisoners to Afghan authorities is just the latest in a long line of highly questionable practices that we have allowed ourselves to become involved in as part of our commitment to George Bush’s “war on terror.”

The Canadian government needs to look at legal opinions such as those of Byers and Attaran, and consider their actions carefully. Mr. Harper and Mr. O’Connor are not above domestic or international law, no matter how inconvenient they may find those laws. More importantly, members of Canada’s military are not above those laws and should not be put at risk of prosecution no matter how convenient our politicians find putting them at risk to be.

There are many, Stephen Harper and Gordon O’Connor very vocally among them, who would have us believe that anyone who dares question the political decisions that drive our involvement in Afghanistan is somehow unsupportive of our troops or even putting those troops at risk. The truth is that by putting our troops in a position where they may face charges under international law, it is those who would stifle all dissent who are putting our troops at risk.

Canada is not, and should not try to be, immune from international laws. To stay the course with our present flawed policy on prisoners in Afghanistan is unconscionable. If he will not change the policy, Stephen Harper will be just another international scofflaw cutting and running from our international obligations for political convenience.

[Proofreader's note: this article was edited for spelling and typos on June 8, 2006]

Note: agreement UN Convention Against T... Polaris Institute According to Byers, Attaran, dealing with ... Professor Attaran poin... Research Brief

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  1. Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:20 pm
    And to their credit, sometimes Canadian soldiers do not hand prisoners over to Afghan soldiers:<br />
    <br />
    ""But in this case, during a raid at a compound where a Canadian vehicle had been ambushed, Afghan soldiers threatened summary execution. They were adamant he was Taliban and should be forced to pay."<br />
    <br />
    CTV cameras captured the discussion as it unfolded.<br />
    <br />
    "They want to execute him here. I am obviously not for that. Recommend pickup or holding," says one soldier, speaking over a radio.<br />
    <br />
    "He’s probably of low intel value but either we take him or he gets executed. I need you to manage that. Over."<br />
    <br />
    Under the tense circumstances, the Canadian soldiers decide to hold onto the prisoner until he can be delivered to less agitated Afghan authorities -- contravening the current policy on prisoners. "<br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=145740">http://paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=145740</a><br />
    <br />
    "Our troops have been taught the Geneva Convention and human rights and everything that goes with that," he said. "We will observe all the international standards concerning the dealings of prisoners of war and later on we will prove it to you through international organizations like the Red Cross." Gen Hillier<br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=73e3fa0d-2459-4a22-b8e1-4f2fb4d6e68a">http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=73e3fa0d-2459-4a22-b8e1-4f2fb4d6e68a</a><br />
    <p>---<br>"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden<br />

  2. Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:49 pm
    The problem isn't with our soldiers, Doc. It's with the politicians who set the policies and sign the deals. The problems with our prisoner policies in Afghanistan span two Liberal and one Conservative PM, so it isn't a partisan thing either.

    I'd put Hillier in the category of politician, not soldier though. He's at that level where political concerns are of major importance to him and he seems all too willing to play the game.

  3. Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:59 pm
    Having been one, I consider the killing of POWs an inexcusable crime, regardless who does it, but all armies in history have done it and are doing it. Give the power of life and death into the hands of punk kids with weapons in their hands and their braindead leaders, and the killings will go on forever.

    After WW2 umpteen German and Japanese generals, officers and soldiers have been executed for the killing of POWs, which is OK by me. But there have also been a lot of books written by the heroes of the so called "winning side", where generals wrote in their memoirs " I gave orders, or "orders were given" that no prisoners are to be taken". What is this if not POW killings?

    In one of the books on the Dieppe raid by Canadian forces it was openly admitted that they were shooting German POWs.

    Yet no war crime trials against the officers and men who did it ?

    As far General Hillier is concerned, I wouldn't trust that guy with a BB gun. The man is a loose cannon.

    Ed Deak.

  4. Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:13 pm
    What's going down in Afghanistan will tarnish Canada's image for decades. Once it finally comes out how bad conditions are over there, we'll look no better than the Americans.

  5. Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:30 pm
    So let's look at the deal signed with Afghans on the treatment of detainees since your beef is with the politicians and the deals they sign:<br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/operations/archer/agreement_e.asp">http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/operations/archer/agreement_e.asp</a><br />
    <br />
    Item #2: "“Detainee” means any person" - so they class drug warlords the same as Taliban and Al Queda. Kind of have to since nobody wears a uniform<br />
    <br />
    Item #3: "will treat detainees in accordance with the standards set out in the Third Geneva Convention" - so they do get Geneva protections... even without the uniform<br />
    <br />
    Item #4: "International Committee of the Red Cross will have a right to visit detainees at any time while they are in custody" - so the ICRC gets access and oversight. Anyone have a problem with the ICRC? Are they somehow a part of the Bush agenda?<br />
    <br />
    Item #10: "Recognizing their obligations pursuant to international law to assure that detainees continue to receive humane treatment and protections to the standards set out in the Third Geneva Convention, the Participants, upon transferring a detainee, will notify the International Committee of the Red Cross through appropriate national channels." - So there is the oversight regarding prisoner transfers... I'm not sure why anyone expected Canada to take responsibility for prisoners once they leave custody...<br />
    <br />
    Unless you advocate vastly expanding our commitment to Afghanistan so that we can build a jail and staff it appropriately, we need to hand over detainees to someone (or we can just kill them so we don't risk any torture - that is sarcasm for those of you that are thin skinned). <br />
    <br />
    Your problem seems to be that we are handing them over to Afghans. If the Afghans are not living up to the terms and conditions laid out in the agreement that they signed with us, the ICRC is the oversight committee that has the obligation to report on that. Have they? I have not seen it if they have. I've seen Human Rights Watch come up with statements on "invisible" detainees handed over to the Americans, but nothing on what has happened to those handed over to the Afghans by the Canadians. Unless one of those people is tortured, they are living up to those deals, and we have good faith. So here is your chance... find me a detainee handed over to the Afghans that is tortured. <br />
    <br />
    Just one will do. And I'll join a letter writing campaign to my MP to have this changed.

  6. Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:45 pm
    According to the U.S. conditions for visa-free relations for a test two-year period, a country must be in the EU, support the USA in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan by deploying a unit of at least 300 members and be no security risk for the USA.

    Well, we know that the countries that had a small participation as members of the Colalition as of July 1, 2005, there were 26 non-U.S. military forces participating in the coalition and contributing to the ongoing stability operations throughout Iraq. These countries were: Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, United Kingdom, and Ukraine.

    Countries which had troops in or supported operations in Iraq at one point but have pulled out since: Nicaragua (Feb. 2004); Spain (late-Apr. 2004); Dominican Republic (early-May 2004); Honduras (late-May 2004); Philippines (~Jul. 19, 2004); Thailand (late-Aug. 2004); New Zealand (late Sep. 2004); Tonga (mid-Dec. 2004) Hungary (end Dec. 2004); Portugal (mid-Feb. 2005); Moldova (Feb. 2005); Poland (starting Jan.05 and completed by end.05(?)); Bulgaria (end of 2005); Ukraine (entire contingent, in stages until ~ Oct. 2005)

    One will notice sveral of these countries listed above as also begining listed on the EU report on the CIA.


    ---
    Perception is two thirds of what we perceive reality to be.

    Difficult decisions are a privilege of rank.

  7. Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:46 pm
    "In one of the books on the Dieppe raid by Canadian forces it was openly admitted that they were shooting German POWs."

    What book was this?? And what POW's did we take at Dieppe? We got our butts handed to us. We didn't take jack, let alone Dieter. The only POW's taken were our guys by the Germans. And if we were killing their guys after they surrendered, we can be damned sure that none of our boys would have been around to be liberated at the end of the war.

  8. Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:16 pm
    Michael, I have studied history for many years and have read many hundreds of books, especially on military history from all sides and angles in 3 languages, so I can't remember the exact name of the book, but it contained the memoirs of the survivors. Most likely published in the '70s.

    They have taken German POWs and shot them on withdrawal. As one guy, who was left to guard some Germans put it, "somehow they all got killed".

    This was a natural and accepted practice for commando raids etc. for all sides.

    Thousands of German POWs were killed by US forces after the war in unfenced, open air, open field, POW camps, by sickness, starvation and drunk guards. I have known many survivors after the war in the hospitals and DP camps and have roomed with one for about 2 years in England. He survived by digging up earthworms and eating them. They had a small stream beside the camp, where they were permitted to wash and drink from for a certain time, once a day, in the midsummer heat, I believe for a half hour every morning. After that they were shot.

    Some people went crazy from thirst and were shot when they entered the water, or the throng pushed some across the stream, where tanks were parked and they shot into them, indiscriminately, killing them by the dozen every day.

    I don't have any records on what happened on the British side, but the American side has been well documented.

    Then, when the Russians started making hostile moves, everything changed and they were heaped with food and privileges, until they were released about a year later.

    Then there were the firestorm raids against Hamburg, Dresden etc. In fact most of the bombings were bona fide terror raids against civilian populations, while the factories were pushing out war supplies until the end of '44. Which doesn't excuse the nazi V1 and V2 "Vergeltungswaffe", or "revenge weapon" raids against Britain.

    You see, I take no sides. As far I'm concerned all politicians and military in all wars are criminals.

    I just tried google with "Atrocities against German POWs after WW2" and got all kinds of hits.

    Ed Deak.

  9. by RPW
    Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:17 am
    <a href="http://www.serendipity.li/hr/german_pow.htm">http://www.serendipity.li/hr/german_pow.htm</a><br />
    <a href="http://www.cyberussr.com/hcunn/for/us-germany-pow.html">http://www.cyberussr.com/hcunn/for/us-germany-pow.html</a><br />
    <a href="http://www.rense.com/general46/germ.htm">http://www.rense.com/general46/germ.htm</a><br />
    etc, etc........<p>---<br>RickW

  10. by RPW
    Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:21 am
    ........and this:<br />
    <a href="http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-71-1642/conflict_war/pow_camps_Canada/">http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-71-1642/conflict_war/pow_camps_Canada/</a><p>---<br>RickW

  11. Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:13 am
    so they do get Geneva protections... even without the uniform<<

    I guess the rules of war include having to go to your local clothier and get fitted with a uniform while your country is being invaded. I guess rank would be based upon that set by the oil marshal. It's nice that Canadians don't have good taste in uniforms.

    ---
    Expect little from life and get more from it.

  12. Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:14 pm
    Still waiting on that one example...

  13. Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:04 pm
    Your articles tend to discredit one another. One states that the US killed 1.7 million German prisoners, while the other provides actual stats:<br />
    <br />
    "The German annual death rates in US hands (1%?) p-2 and French hands (2.6%) p-3 were a whole order of magnitude less than for US PoWs in Japanese hands (27%) p-4, German PoWs in Soviet hands (35-50%) p-5, or, worst of all, Soviet PoWs in German hands (60-80%). They were comparable to, but probably higher than, the annual death rate of US PoWs in German hands (1%). p-6"<br />
    <br />
    I tend to believe the overall stats, since it is corroborated by back up information rather than anectodal information. Not that the anectodal stories are discredited in any way... it is just that they provide vivid recollections of specific instances rather that showing a systemic policy of extermination.<br />
    <br />
    That horrific instances occurred is beyond doubt. I would dispute (and almost dismiss) Ed's reference to one book in the hundreds he has read as the author having alterior motives, as nothing I have ever read on Dieppe provided any mention of killing German POW's (I cannot locate even one mention of prisoners to begin with). The only mention of what happened to German POW's that I can find is in the following article which states:<br />
    <br />
    "The Germans also find at Dieppe an Allied document ordering their troops to tie the hands of any German soldier captured, a violation of the Geneva Convention."<br />
    <br />
    That's a long way from shooting the prisoners though. <br />
    <br />
    <a href="http://www.usswashington.com/dl19au42.htm">http://www.usswashington.com/dl19au42.htm</a>

  14. Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:33 pm
    I would question the number of 1.7 million German POWs killed by the USA. Not even by the Russians, who killed hundreds of thousands, including 70% of the 400,000 captured in Stalingrad. It is pure propaganda fabrication.

    However, many thousands died the the early postwar US POW camps. I lived, worked and roomed with many in DP Lager 1000 at Wels, Austria, within a few months after their release and later in England, after we were recruited by the government.

    One of my room mates was locked up with the Hungarian troops in what they came to call "Death Valley" around Steyr , Austria. They died like flies from the privations and starvation. He is now an 80 year old Protestant Pastor in St.Louis Mo. Served in the US Army in 1951- and I spoke to him on the phone just last week , congratulating his 50 ordination anniversary. I dont think he would lie.

    I found the "serendipity" story, by the US veteran very accurate.

    In my case, my legwound blew up 2 days after the war ended and they took me to a hospital , where I spent the next 14 months. As a patient for 3, and volunteer orderly for 11 months, so I missed it. I was walking back to Hungary with a couple of kids, when my leg blew up like a purple football at Goisern, Austria. They continued and were never seen again, ending up most likely in Siberia. Their families never knew what happened to them.

    Bless the lice that infected my legwound!!!!!! Although many economists, communists and capitalists curse them for saving me !!!!!!!

    Cheers, Ed Deak.



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