Census Action Up, To Be Officially Launched Tomorrow

lets protest x country working for the government!

Welcome to the world, sometimes the lowest bidder or best company for the job is not a Canadian company. Big deal. How would you like a ban on Canadian companies contracting to foreign governments? No? Did you know it was a 2 way street?

This NIMBY attitude makes me sick. I researched the issue, and Lockheed Martin is just providing some hardware and expertise, and no employee of theirs is cleared to come anywhere close to any census information. If Harper really wanted to give the US our census information, he wouldn't need to hire Lockheed Martin to do it, he would just secretly hand it over.

So Lockheed Martin is a military company. Why don't we ban them?? Lets ban haliburton too, even though they are irreplacable in the Canadian oil industry. Lets ban Boeing, because they make those nasty CF-18's, who cares that they make most of our passenger aircraft too. HEY WHY DON'T WE BAN MICROSOFT PRODUCTS IN THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT??? That's something I could get behind, silly as it sounds.

Lets face it, if we want to compete in other markets, we have to let other markets compete on our soil. I can't think of a single legitimate reason for protesting this census issue, other than a hidden political agenda to smear the Conservative government with nonsense jingoism, and illogical patriotic drum beating.

To the people organising this: Get a grip, and protest about some real issues.

Stoutlimb, you read a few scripts and call that research, you appear to know nothing about world history other than troll propaganda. One reason for banning all US companies would be that the USA has broken the Nuremberg laws that it helped put in place, the penalty for this is to be shunned by all other nations in this world. There are many other reasons for banning Lockheed Martin including their criminal record as a repeat offender. I know you trolls see no reason not to do business with any organization no matter how psychopathic they are but don't expect the rest of us to follow you down the hellbound path.

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"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
(Albert Einstein)

If you'd including reading our own background on this issue in your research, you'd realize the only reason the scope of this contract has been limited at all was the outcry lead by Vive back in 2003 over Lockheed Martin's involvement. It's not out of the goodness of StatsCan's heart. We have the documented proof of that available on this site, including the response from Ivan Fellegi, Chief Statistician. Originally there was no limit to the scope of the contract, and it was only through protest that the limit has been added. It's now a judgement call for Canadians whether they feel privacy is no longer an issue.

Regarding American companies getting contracts here in Canada, for me the issue is that NAFTA tends to work far more in favour of US companies than Canadian ones. It's the same thing with foreign ownership. While having some contracts given to other countries is expected and normal, and having some foreign countries owning companies in Canada is also expected in normal, its the extent of it that's the problem. Canada is now the most foreign-owned country in the world, and American companies are consistently able to outcompete Canadian companies due to their size and power. NAFTA was set up so that we couldn't win, under the guise of creating a fair playing field. There's a big size difference between a beaver and an elephant and calling a competition between them fair is just rhetoric.

As for Lockheed Martin's status as military contractor, if that doesn't bother you it's your personal opinion, but it was an American President who warned us all about the military industrial complex and personally I think we need to be vigilant to its expansion into Canada in cases like this.





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"When I told him about class warfare, he asked if we did it in JellO."--translation/paraphrase, The Candidate, CBC

"I researched the issue, and Lockheed Martin is just providing some hardware and expertise, and no employee of theirs is cleared to come anywhere close to any census information."

You don't have to be cleared to use a secret "back door" into the system.

If you don't think they haven't built at least one into it, I honestly believe you're wrong.

It's what I would do if I were them.

Covert, tight, and if discovered easily described as a "design glitch", or the "action of a disgruntled former employee".

Computers are cool things that way, the user can see one thing on the screen while a whole bunch of interesting things are running in the background that no one even cares to notice.

Only the designers know what's really going on.

Think about it.

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"and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

"The Weapon" - Rush

We got rid of Paul Martin, so why can't we get rid of Lougheed Martin?

A Canadian citizen wrote the CDM today to ask what we are doing about Lockheed Martin and the census, and in that letter the writer made a very good point:

"If America nukes Iran as Hersh claims, whose missiles do you think will be delivering the payload onto target? Considering they are in both the missile business and the manufacturing of airplanes/parts, we can be rather assured that our tax dollars will help them do what they are about to do - kill millions. For that reason alone we should not allow our money to go to a foreign military contractor for something like the census."

I can not agree more. No Blood for Stats.

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If there was ever a time for Canadians to become pushy - now is the time - for time is running out on this nation called Canada.

If Lockheed-Martin are providing hardware and expertise, it means that all the data will be transferred into their hands in the USA and to the CIA, or whomever. That's what computers are about and for. The minute people, who fill out the computer forms. press the "Send" button, the message will appear on the screens of the Rulers of the World.

In effect everything we buy on credit cards and with bank, or cash machines, especialy from multinationals, already is on the screens of the information centres in the USA.

Living out in the boondocks we have to use credit cards to order things, but for our daily needs we always pay cash. We had a cash card since they came out, but have only used it 3 times, in emergencies, in all these years.

I fought the globalizing efforts of the USSR for 45 years and will spend the remainder of my life fighting the same colonization attempts by the USA.

Ed Deak.

So you won 3 years ago? Why keep fighting? It makes no sense. Pick another cause that's worth fighting. This just makes you look like shrill alarmists that nobody takes seriously.

Also, imagine the worst case scenario, Lockheed Martin gets access to census data. Considering so many companies work on either side of the border, is there really that much information that the USA can't get easily by other means?

What's the big deal? Those in power can easily get that kind of information without even crossing the border.

I agree privacy should be much stronger than it is now. But lets fight the good fight, and find the causes that actually matter, such as Canadian banking and telephone information finding it's way south of the border. Picking on one company just because they do millitary work is not a good criteria. You might as well try chasing Boeing or Haliburton or Microsoft out of Canada. That's how dumb you look.

So is there any reason I should support your cause that was already achieved three years ago?

If you think that this census data is actually some great treasure to be guarded ferociously, you truly are naive. There is no census information that the US government can't get easily through a dozen easier ways.

The people organizing this "protest" are having us chase after paper tigers. The problem is exactly what I stated above. THERE ARE ALREADY DOZENS OF WAYS TO GET THIS INFORMATION. The henhouse doors have been left open for decades already.

If there should be a protest about this, it shouldn't be some lame attempt to discredit Lockheed Martin. If your values are about privacy, it's the entire system that needs to be protested, not some irrelevant census contract. That's what I'm trying to get across to your thick skulls.

Think of it this way. The census issue is a paper cut. Canada is already hemmoraging buckets of private information into the US. This is the wrong battle to fight.

Well thank you, at least your honest. You want to ban all US companies from Canada. It's admirable actually, because in principle I agree with you. I also think that, practically speaking, the chance of that happening is next to nil. We are already too deeply integrated for the average Canadian to ever consider that.

So lets do something useful on this website for once, and put our heads together to think of something practical we can do. I've heard your pie in the sky desire. Now let's hear something practical and achievable.

I appreciate it too Ed. Thanks,

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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche

Stoutlimb,

You keep attacking others for not doing something practical yet have offered nothing in the way of an idea that you think would be more solid or worthwhile.

Just because bombs are falling on Afghanistan and Iraq does not mean that the public could never have the power to stop them. Just because something has taken place does not mean that it cannot be reversed, altered or improved upon. This could be effective.

I agree with you that our personal information is out there everywhere if we have ever had a job, used a bank, got married, etc...but, that does not mean we shouldn't be guarding against it being used in ways we do not approve of. We do have power. Collectively we have the MOST power. I do not want Lockheed Martin/USA using my personal information to in some way further their criminal behaviour while trying to make me the criminal. This seems to be the mindset of both our governments and big business.

I approve of this boycott.

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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche

Stoutlimb, you made a comment concerning Lockheed Martin employess access to census data, which if you read what I wrote was specifically what was addressed.

As for your other contention brought up in the thread, it's not that I personally have a beef with US companies being in Canada.

My beef is the fact that there are very few CANADIAN companies in Canada.

And the fascists..erm..Harper Conservatives want to see that number dropped even further.



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"and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

"The Weapon" - Rush