Deep Integration Still Undebated In Parliament

Posted on Wednesday, September 14 at 21:58 by whelan costen
The key information re: the announced agreement and news coverage - from The Globe and Mail article: * Canada will be participating in a new, wide-ranging North American security plan that Ottawa hopes will improve the response to internal and external threats while helping the flow of goods across the three countries, Deputy Prime Minister Anne McLellan announced Monday. The comprehensive strategy was developed following the formation of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America at a meeting of U.S. President George W. Bush, Prime Minister Paul Martin and Mexican President Vicente Fox in March. * There are over 300 specific recommendations * The three governments have agreed to prepare a co-ordinated response to large-scale incidents, * Some specific initiatives include testing biometric technology in screening travellers, developing benchmarks on visa issues and developing a co-ordinated strategy on threats to our food supply and agricultural sectors There are several points to be made: * The whole process is totally undemocratic and requires a thorough and extensive national debate - in parliament, perhaps a royal commission, at the very least public hearings. We are changing Canada fundamentally with literally no input from Canadians. Read the rest: [Proofreader's note: this article was edited for spelling and typos on September 15, 2005]

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  1. Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:21 am
    >>The US Administration is now using this "terrorism" story to garner the support of the Canadian and Mexican governments for their plan of "Deep Integration".<<

    Lets see this US plan for "deep integration". Lets see that it exists. Once and for all SHOW IT TO EVERYONE!

    >>The "annexation initiative"<<<

    Is that what it is called? The "annexation initiative"? or is this just another buzz word to aid you in your branding? SHOW US THE US PLAN TO ANNEX CANADA! SHOW IT OR SHUT UP! You are pushing fear and lies. Stop lying.

  2. Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:48 am
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  3. Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:32 am
    Do you think a bozo like that would even read your links.
    Perhaps Australia would be interested in a continent exchange.

  4. Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:12 am
    So THATS the spooky "deep integration"/"annexation initiative"? That’s a bunch of claptrap from a couple of Canadian think tanks on various topics. None of which, ZERO has been proposed from the USA, government or otherwise. Is this the part of the show where we try to throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and pray that something sticks so we can call it “deep integration”? I really don’t have the stomach to wade through a bunch of PDF’s again on things like “automotive bumper height standardization” that pass among the delusional as “proof” of an American plan to frigging “annex” Canada.

    So where is this "deep integration" plan that: "The US Administration is now using this "terrorism" story to garner the support of the Canadian and Mexican governments". Where is this "annexation initiative"?

    The fact that >some< of you buy into this, after months and months have passed of non answers to this simple question really speaks volumes about your gullibility. Talk about creating a “culture of fear”.

  5. Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:38 am
    Go back to sleep and let the rest of us worry about being pulled over by a Texas state trooper on Hwy #1 near Hope, B.C., our doors busted down by US DEA agents working in Vancouver, or a Canadian priest detained by Air Canada in Canada for mistakenly being on a terrorist no fly list that Canada has not even composed yet. We'll wake you up when you have to get fingerprinted (sorry, I mean biometricized).

  6. by mk
    Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:02 pm
    Let's clarify, because some of the posts on this site are indeed misleading. Americans (per se) are *not* interested in Deep Integration. This process is being led by a multilateral band of corporate executives and their lawyers who often find it inconvenient that there are three nation states in North America whose laws and regulations must be navigated in order to do business. The misdirection here is the misplaced belief that they want only one set of laws and regulations (U.S.), when in a practical sense the number is closer to zero. The U.S. is not always the least regulated, but it usually is, and that's why it looks to some like this is a process of "annexation". Also because when you liberalize capital/investment, the lion's share is going to come from the country with the lion's share of the capital--a miniscule proportion invested in the smaller nation can effectively result in ownership of that nation, whereas a much larger per-captia investment the other way is barely noticable.

    There are some right-wing liberals (the only valid label in terms of Canadian political history, despite their preferred political brand) in Canada who do openly support annexation, in terms of currency adoption, military subordinance, etc.; but they are likely a minority. And there are certainly some who have a cap-in-hand adoration of the U.S. and corresponding loathing of all things Canada. But most are just businesspeople doing whatever they believe most expediently suits their own interests, and sell it as "good" for the country because doing so has proved a winning strategy; it may even be true in some cases, but since it isn't the driving motivation it is irrelevant--if they are not primary, such sentiments cannot be relied upon to create sound policy.

    Example - the biometrics project, not some nasty, clandestine American plot, just a business, which happens to have a former political big-whig (John Manley) on its payroll. Similarly, the part of this that creates the "sell-off" of Canada is just that, a sell-off, driven by actors in the *global* economy who put together big deals and get a percentage commission. They care no more that the deal is good for Canada (or the U.S. for that matter) than they care who the buyer is or whether the business remains productive in any particular domestic jurisdiction, Canadian or American.

    Make no mistake, these actors will rally round the flag and call for protectionism the moment it benefits them to do so.

  7. Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:09 pm
    You're right that the people of either country are not interested in deep integration, but they don't have the choice to say anything about it, just as they didn't on the FTA, NAFTA and the worst yet to come, the GATS.

    We did have an election over the FTA, where 57% of Canadians voted against its proponent, Mulroney, yet he got in with a majority and two days after his election the first rat, in the form of the Gillette company, closed down their factories in Toronto and Montreal, starting the deindustrialization of Canada, now also hitting the USA and Mexico.

    I noted in the Fraser Institute story that the author of the common currency piece was the "distinguished economist" Herb Grubel. The guy is a raving maniac, Professor Emeritus at Simon Fraser U, former Reform MP, who was shown on TV once declaring: "No country can afford universal health care!"

    There was a newsclip on BCTV last night, showing Washington State based Minutemen, who will form armed patrols on the border, ostensibly with the permission of American authorities, to "stop terrorists entering from Canada".
    Ed Deak, Big Lake, BC.

    PS: By the way, what is the difference between "Noted", "Respected" and "Distinguished" economists ? I've just read
    an article in the Scientific American by one of those, by the name of Sachs, who claimed that the Green Revolution, the market economy and globalization are pulling the world out of poverty. In which world do these nutcases live in ?

  8. Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:09 pm
    Go to the Council on Foreign Relations website. Thats they American think tank that drafted the Deep Integration plan, with the help of the leading "Business Men" from all three coutries. The good old CFR, whos leading member, a few days after Sept 11th, said, George Bush should use this oppurtunity to fully usher in the New World Order that his father spoke about in 1993. That was on c-span. You can still find the footage if you search around for it.

    The Waco Pact, signed in 2005 is the first main step in brining the CFRs reccomendations into affect. Its being done through executive orders and such. There is no debate, and there won't ever be a debate about it, so don't hold your breath. IF the CFRs timeline is kept it will all be finalized by 2010, and soon after we will most likely unify our currency with the USA and Mexico, likely we will adopt the US currency, or they will create a new one, like the Euro. This isn't some big secret or conspiracy theory.
    The Corporate Intrests of all 3 countries have been pushing this agenda since before NAFTA.

    Understand, this is not an "American" idea per say. Its not really in the intrests of Americans, since it will lead to even more movement accross the southern border. The only difference is that it will all be legalized. Americans have as much to lose from the treaty as we do. Same for the average mexican. This benefits the multi-national Corprate intrests, more than anyone else. The Robber Barons of the 21st Century...

  9. by mk
    Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:35 pm
    "There was a newsclip on BCTV last night, showing Washington State based Minutemen, who will form armed patrols on the border, ostensibly with the permission of American authorities, to "stop terrorists entering from Canada"."

    Yeah, I hear they're trying to sneak across disguised as beef and two-by-fours.

    To your P.S. - Not Jeffrey Sachs? That doesn't sound like him.

    Usually one prefaces an argument attributed to someone "respected", "noted" or "distinguished" when the argument can't easily stand on its own merits, either due to the nature of the argument itself or the capacity of the arguer to convey it.

    All these things the economist mentioned probably are pulling the world out of poverty, at least parts of it. And yet, other parts are being pushed further in. Distinguished or not, it seems most economists have yet to submit to the second law of thermodynamics (and some still struggle with the first). Still can't help but wonder if many in the field aren't trying to make things bigger by making the length of an inch smaller.

    Looking elsewhere in nature--domains other than economy, in particular monetary economy--it is difficult to find a species, process, or what-have-you wherein two virtually identical entities vary in some capacity by nine or ten orders of magnitude. When that happens, you check your work and recalibrate your instruments.

  10. Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:35 pm
    >>Go back to sleep and let the rest of us worry about yada, yada, yada...<<<<br />
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  11. Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:50 pm
    >> Go to the Council on Foreign Relations website.<<<

    OK, since you wont provide me with a link I did your research for you. There are 3 hits containing “deep integration” on the CFR website all regarding a report titled “Harnessing Trade for Development and Growth in the Middle East”. The only mention of Canada is:

    “In four out of five MENA countries for which data was collected, between 11 and 15 procedures were required to register a new firm. (Only Israel was similar to countries such as Australia, Canada, Finland, and the United States in requiring fewer than five such procedures.)”

    Harnessing Trade in the Middle East PP.24 Paragraph 1.

    So Is this the spooky deep integration plan that is going to be used to “annex” Canada?

    >> he good old CFR, whos leading member, a few days after Sept 11th, said, George Bush should use this oppurtunity to fully usher in the New World Order that his father spoke about in 1993.<<<

    I smell another “Zionist conspiracy” post from attack beaver coming.

    >> You can still find the footage if you search around for it.<<<

    Why should I be doing the research? You are asserting something and leaving it for someone else to prove. Even so, what does that have to do with this “deep integration” plan that you folks are being jerked around by?

    >> The Waco Pact, signed in 2005 is the first main step in brining the CFRs reccomendations into affect. Its being done through executive orders and such.<<<

    Lets see some links.

    >> Understand, this is not an "American" idea per say.<<<


    >>This benefits the multi-national Corprate intrests,<<

    The usual suspects, huh? Which multi-national Corprate intrests? Or is it a monolithic multi-national Corprate intrest? You used the plural "interests" so who is benifeting from this suposed plan that is sooooo secret that no one will show it to me. Come on, Educate this dumb 'ol 'merican hillbilly. Lets see it. Who knows, I may join you on your quest.

  12. Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:07 am
    Well MK, I agree with the thrust of your post, and its refreshing to see someone acknowledge that there is a degree of misdirection going on.

    The problem that I have here is as I have stated over and over: In the way it has been divorced from any legitimate context the term “deep integration” is being deliberately used as a catchall phrase which could encompass ANY cooperation between Canada and the USA. Indeed, any interaction. This is being done to promote the idea that Canada is under attack from the United States to further the political aspirations of those who would paint themselves as “the defenders of Canadian sovereignty.” In other words, “vote for us or we will become the 51st state. “ It is a well worn tool and it has been used to manipulate Canadians through fear and prejudice into either supporting the status quo, or in this case demagoging a party into office.

    It is a great pitch in a way, it hits all the right chords. It appeals to peoples vanities, it exploits their fears and prejudices and it plays on the nationalism or “tribalism” that we all have. Who doesn’t want to feel morally superior? You had better show that you are above all that uncompromising, devouring, warlike Americanism by checking the correct box or buying the correct product or being rude to the correct person. You had better believe the correct thing, or else you are just as bad as those bastards.

    If it were selling laundry detergent or oven mitts it would be a grand slam home run. The thing is though, it is inherently fascistic. It is also souring what is easily our most important international relationship, on a governmental as well as a personal level. The other thing is, its so OLD. It’s so threadbare at this point. Sure, on some level there are people who realize they are being manipulated, but it is a pleasing myth that feels good in the short run to swallow. In the long run you are going to get more of the same crappy leadership because of it.

    If you are against ANY cooperation between Canada and the USA well fine, come out and say so. If you hate Americans then that is your prerogative. Be my guest. Just don’t try to cloak bigotry in a so-called political movement, and don’t try using it to exploit others for your own agenda. Have the guts to go out and burn your own crosses or do your own goose step.

    If you are not, well, take a hard look at what is being sold here. Americans aren’t out to get you, the sad fact is we are so wrapped up in ourselves that you would probably be even more angry with us if you knew how far down “deeply integrating” with Canada was on our to do list.

  13. Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:10 am
    CFR Website Links regarding North American Integration:<br />
    <a href=""></a><br />
    <br />
    CFR Document:<br />
    <a href=""></a> <br />
    <br />
    The Waco Pact 2005<br />
    <a href=""></a><br />
    <br />
    <br />
    There you go asswad, read all about it. Brought to you by the CFR and the CCCE. <br />
    <br />
    No one will show it to you? For a start how about Ford laying people off in Canada and the US while building factories in China? Even shitty call centre jobs and tech support are being transferred to India, resulting in a loss of North American Jobs. Thats what the global trade integration treaties mainly do. They allow more and more of this to go on, to our detriment, and at the expense of the people in "developing countries" who are exploited in this system. <br />
    I'm sure you are smart enough to educate yourself on the matter, there is so much of this shit going on that its hard not to see it.<br />
    <br />
    IF you must bring up things I have posted in the past, to attempt to use them as some feeble weapon against me, why not create an alias for you self here you chickenshit bitch?<br />
    At leas then i can be sure I'm talking to the same asshole every time.<br />

  14. Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:11 am
    above post was mine, didn't realize I was not logged in...

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