Report On Colony Or Country Tour (Council Of Canadians)

'Province' of Canada is more accurate. Canada has no foreign policy ideals, Canada has no military capability, Canada has no intelligence capability and therefore we only know what are allies feel like telling us - if we act like allies, Canada doesn't do the peacekeeping thing anymore - not that peacekeeping ever did much good, Canada has very little real respect as a nation - it's only when we hand out cheques that dictators pretend to listen.

So the 'Province of Canada' is much more fitting than country or colony because that is how we have chosen to run the whole nation, like an eleventh Province - Canadians don't really care much for independence and sovereignty, we let others make the big decisions, even if they affect us.

Who are you ??

Why are you replying to yourself?


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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill

Here we go again. It's nice to see the COC is reporting the constitutional challenge regarding NAFTA, but Maude Barlow is another ideologue, totally destructive to the cause. No pragmatism whatsoever. People must know this. She's an anti-nationalist, "non-partisan" media-leech. She honestly spends more trying to stop Coca-cola in third-world coutnries than she does helping Canada, so she should be removed from the position of Council of Canadians leader.

Perturbed: Maude barlow is just a figure head and yes, most unpractical as such. I would not however readily discard the work of these folks under the figure head. I highly recommend reading this outstanding report on the challenges facing Canadian sovereignty. Thanks to Susan for bringing this up.

I particularly related to the First Nations statement from the folks in Fredericton (rf. Appendix J). There is a lot of collective guilt on "Canadian Sovereignty" to be dealt with here. People become more aware of it when a bigger one is starting to do to you what you did to the more vunerable ones earlier on. And then for some reasons, it is all unfair. I am not sure if Canadians really want to hear this message. Ignorance is bliss, as they say. Denial is easy.

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"We are all in this together somehow, some more than others somehow"

We need a new figurehead. I'll never forgive her for thwarting David Orchard's leadership bid efforts.

Well, I read the full report, and it was quite good in the beginning, but I ended up being more disappointed than I thought I would.

Some small quibbles:

1: The suggestion by some at meetings that this is "capitalism vs. democracy" is erroneous IMO, as this is more an issue with what type of capitalism we have, and where we have it. A healthy, compassionate mixed economy could be quite competitive and democractic, but enough about that.

2: The suggestion that nationalism is bad--bringing up the first nations. Let's accept this: first nations issues must take a back seat right now, but first nations will benefit from a strong Canada. There is no easy solution to that problem--self-government is not a solution to anything.

3: The attitude that we have to "take back our country," democracy isn't working. Well, let's get real. The media was always biased. Globalization was just as destructive in the 1970s, though we notice it more now. We NEVER HAD great democracy, so be real COC, this is as assinine as Michael Moore suggesting "everything was fine with the U.S.A. until George W. Bush took it away."

Big quibbles:

4: Suggestions and conclusion by the Council of Canadians prove that even a group as big as 100,000 members can still be a fringe, protest group.

I was shocked at the garbage I read here:

-form international alliance,

-form international coalitions,

-participate in events surrounding the U.S. elections....?!

-Invite more new people to meetings.

-Do what Norman Bethune would have done and "take on the neoliberal corporations." (whatever the hell that means.)


Message to Council of Canadians:

Only Canadians can decide what happens here. Forget this "internaional struggle" crap.

Find a political candidate, (i.e. Orchard) join a party with that candidate, MAKE SURE you work HARD to get that candidate elected leader of the party, and hold them accountable.

It's about WINNING. Then the changes happen. You can't win on the sidelines, so wake up. It's not happening for you if you continue with the delusions.

It is really shocking how anti-politics this group is, and how poorly refined their ideas are the way they talk about actually accomplishing anything.

I have to say that I agree with Perturbed. The COC will accomplish very little. The only changes will come under political will. Since there is no political will to save Canada at the moment. The COC should be finding a way to get political will in Ottawa (like Orchard etc...) to save Canada.

Canada won't be saved on the sidelines. The COC will only be noise, nothing more.

Kevin

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"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
--Bertrand Russell

Not everyone has your faith in the power of the almighty state to solve everything. As much as I despise the prevailing ideology of the Council of Collectivists, I like the fact that they rely on "people power" instead of wading into the cesspool of electoral politics.

And their "People power" has how much success to show for it? They love to take credit for stopping the MAI, but what about everything else?

<blockquote> I like the fact that they rely on "people power" instead of wading into the cesspool of electoral politics. </blockquote> <p>I'm with Perturbed on this one. "People power" as you put it, will not accomplish anything unless the "people power" have political pull. I understand if the COC was to build up to lets say million activist, or maybe a 2 million activist. Then they could maybe be a real force. Heck with the voter turnout, that many activist could form a party and win to rule the country. But the fact is by the time they attract that many people (if they do), all of the things they don't want to happen will be happening anyways. <p>The activist will have to vote to create any kind of change. Who are the COC behind politically? As far as I know they don't openly say what party to support. So what exactly could they do politically accept make noise. Since their still a small group, they will only be noise. <p>The only route to change is people moving up the political ladder that want to save Canada. Its political will that built Canada, and it will take that same political will to save the Canada that is being torn apart. <p>Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! <p>Kevin<p>---<br>"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." <br />
--Bertrand Russell

Great points.....I mean, think about it Kevin. How many people did Orchard need to win the Conservative leadership, 12,000 more? I forget. Wellllll, the COC membership is 100,000!!! At 100,000, if they all joined the Conservative Party, and got involved before election time, they could get a leader like Orchard in power.

100,000 is close to the new Conservative membership of 120,000. If every COC member invited one friends, that's 200,000! These people are nuts for staying on the sidelines. Politics can be about actually making things better. There is no "all-powerful conspiracy." That's what they want us to think.

The COC's 100,000 members have no more clout than 5 guys in a bar, and it's all their fault.

Totally agree with you Perturbed. Wow, didn't realize the COC had that many members. Sad that they would not get involved in politics. If they were to sit with David Orchard and planned for all members of COC to get memberships in the New Conservative Party to elect David as leader. That would really stir things up, wouldn't it.

I guess with 100,000 COC members behind Orchard, and the 10,000+ David Orchard supporters, they can make some changes with any current political party. Maybe even the Progressive Canadian Party can be an option. This party could have all COC members, all David supporters and all progressive conservatives in Canada.

Of course this is all just wishful thinking.

Kevin

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

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"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
--Bertrand Russell

<p>Some of the members of this party, were and probably still are David Orchard supporters. Some of them decided to form this party cause they felt the route that David Orchard took was a waste of time. They decided to form a new party with the PC logo. <p><a href="http://www.pcparty.org/"><b>www.pcparty.org</b></a> <p>Also a PC Option egroup on yahoo. <p><b>Intro:</b><br><br> Our Canada is suffering an identity crisis. Honour, integrity, the rule of law are all being sacrificed to the market and business liberalism. To maintain our dynamic, civil society, we need to band together to share/create a common vision. <p>Since the Dec. 6th purge of the PROGRESSIVE Conservatives a larger number of Canadians are seeking a political home , a place where they can apply their energies to build a better society. <p>This is a forum to freely explore together all ideas, even parties without fear of appearing disloyal to anything or anyone. <p>We must network with all parts of the country .. share research .. get information. Subscribers must have a 2003 membership in good standing in the PC Party of Canada or be ready to get involved in a new entity. <p>Canada has been at the forefront of technology from railroads, telegraph, radio, telephone and now the Internet because East-west communications are vital to our survival Respectful debate and discussion is essential. How else can we learn from/about each other <p>David Orchard and other so called Red Tories have articulated their dream. If you join this group you will have seen elements of your own dreams within this vision. <p>Many have remarked that, after hearing David Orchard speak, they felt hope again, that he raised issues they had thought about for years, and had thought that only they thought about those things. Here you will find many people who feel the way you do about Canada and being a Canadian. <p>This group then is to encourage discussion amongst PROgressive Canadians, PROgressive Conservatives and individuals who simply care and want to do something for their country. <p>Membership is moderated to ensure a medium for free exchange of constructive ideas. We seek quality in our postings not just quantity. Many of us are already burdened with emails. <p><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pcoptions/"><b>PC Options Forum</b></a><p>---<br>"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." <br />
--Bertrand Russell