Canada Has Abandoned Any Notion Of Independence From The US

Thanks for the great submission Catherine.

Can I make one comment? I don't think the Liberals are on a spending spree at all--they canned the Airborne, cancelled a helicopter deal, and have cut the military for many years. Mulroney was the one who sold our chinook helicopters to the U.S., now Canada needs them in Afghanistan.... They probably spend more money settling immigrants and appeasing groups for past grievances than they do on the military.

My problem is that they are purchasing equipment that DOES NOT defend our sovereignty. It is pretty easy to tell when they are buying for defensive purposes, and when they are buying for sovereignty issues. Some equipment can be used for both, but not while it is overseas obviously. They are buying howitzers vehicles that are strictly to be used overseas in the Middle East, while our air force goes without the new tactical aircraft it needs, as only half are being replaced, it does without search and rescue aircraft, without long-range transport, without more AURORA-style patrol our coast for sovereignty patrols, without new fighter jets until 2017 at the earliest, without new destroyers on time, as they were needed yesterday, without new replenishment ships, which are needed soon, without enough bullets in the budget to prevent soldiers from HAVING TO PAY for extra ammo to practice with.

We need a massive spending increase JUST to prevent rust-out of the smallish fleet we currently have.

Any talk of nuclear subs some day to patrol and defend our arctic sovereignty is currently a pipe dream. It would take up our entire budget. Any talk of a BIGGER fleet is a pipe dream right now.

Most importantly, Canada needs new icrebreakers that can break through arctic ice, more AURORA-style patrol planes for sovereignty patrols and should replace all tactical airlifters with new C130Js as the A400M is still a paper plane.

Also, FELEX life-extension program for the frigates must not prevent the CADRE plan for a common-hull replacement for both the frigates and destroyers from going ahead. It would be nice for a long-term replacement plan to be drawn up to ensure that the shipyards can stay open in perpetuity, but the budget is just too small.

However, the alarmist rhetoric is a bit much as Canada was headed by a British general 100 years ago and we still maintained our independence.

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"A Liberal is someone who refuses to take his own side in a fight".

-Robert Frost

I forgot to mention replacing the replenishment ships (AORs) is much more important than the littoral warfare ship they want for humanitarian work overseas and landing on hostile shores. That kind of ship is not a defensive ship. It is an expensive sitting duck we don't need with so many other problems as it is. They are thinking about either continuing with the JSS ship dual-role ship and/or renovating two unfinished 1990s U.S. AORs that are in mothballs.

A littoral ship like the San Antonio Class requires a lot of crew--but a Spanish or Dutch ship might be smaller cheaper if they don't want to build it here.

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"A Liberal is someone who refuses to take his own side in a fight".

-Robert Frost

I sailed on HMCS Provider (AOR 508) for about five years so I think I qualify as somewhat of an expert (ok, just a knowitall!).

AORs are not about protecting Canada, they are about allowing us to carry force to other countries. Since we have no force to carry, having AORs from a truly military standpoint is pretty silly.

From a civilian standpoint, AORs do not find drug or people smugglers - aircraft find suspicious boats and ships and direct warships to them.

Fleet activities within Canadian waters do not require an AOR as fuel and provisions are available from a number of ports.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind seeing the Navy bolstered a bit more, but I think the rest of the military needs a lot before the Navy gets much more - don't forget they recently (in Naval terms) replaced almost the entire fleet. Only the 280 class (Tribal) ships are left from the "old" fleet, the rest having been sunk for artificial reefs or sold off as scrap to Turkey (like Provider was).

CANADIAN POLITICIANS SELL OUT TO THE AMERICANS

Why I will never know, but i believe somebody has something on our canadian politicians, just recently both sides have declared Santa Claus a terrorrist

And to All, A Good Night

by John Chuckman

It was only a matter of time before Santa Claus himself came under the Neanderthal-eyed scrutiny of American intelligence. After all, Santa’s citizenship is unknown, and he crosses borders with no passport or other form of identification. No one knows whether he even has a valid pilot’s license.

Although his image is well known, there is no official photograph on file with American border control, and he has never been fingerprinted or body-searched. Most disconcerting of all, he delivers parcels to children all over the world, including the children living in the Axis of Evil. His intentions with this activity are not understood beyond some fuzzy generalization about kindness and generosity to all. Clearly, here was the world’s largest unplugged pipeline to potential terrorists.

It was only after receiving no response to several urgent letters from the State Department requesting an immediate meeting in Washington that a decision was made to approach Santa’s North Pole solitude. As usual in such matters with the people now running America, a wing of America’s most lethal killing machines was employed for the purpose. You never know what you might encounter in such a forbidding place.

As the planes first zoomed over the icy silence of the North Pole workshop, one of the pilots decided to swoop down for a closer look. He was one of those daring fly-boys, and his tail struck the only wire for thousands of miles around, the North Pole Telegraph, sending his plane hurling into the workshop in a ball of flames with tons of ammunition and missiles exploding.

Santa and Mrs. Claus rushed out of their snow-blanketed gingerbread house to see what was happening, trying to calm the terrified reindeer running from their stable at one end of the house. The elves, too, scurried towards the stable, trying to stop the reindeer from running or flying off.

Above, in the dark vault of sky, the other pilots observed the explosion and saw missile trails smoking into the air. They also saw the frantic activity below and quickly concluded their comrade had come under anti-aircraft attack. So they swooped down in attack formation, rapid-fire canon tearing into everything ahead of them.

Most of the reindeer fell in the snow, spurting warm blood across the bluish-white surface. Most of the elves, too, fell gasping for life. Mrs. Claus received a wound in the head and instantly fell limp. Santa tried heroically to reach his wife but realized the situation was hopeless and turned, running into the darkness accompanied by Prancer, the only surviving reindeer.

The only witness to the massacre is one surviving elf now living somewhere in Canada under an assumed identity, fearful for his life. It is only from his testimony that we know anything about Santa’s fate.

Realizing the horrific mistake they had made, the pilots dropped white phosphorus bombs with the intention of incinerating all evidence. The entire North Pole lit up and Santa and Prancer could be seen in the distance on a huge block of ice drifting off into the dark sea, the ice everywhere cracked and weakened by the combined effects of white phosphorus and years of global warming.

Within in a few hours, the beating sound of a black helicopter approached Santa and Prancer. The elf, from his hiding place in a snowdrift, could only make out intermittent sounds across the howling coldness, but it seems armed men emerged from the helicopter, shot Prancer and shackled Santa, shoving him into the dark, beating machine. The elf heard a word that sounded like Guantanamo and Santa has not been heard from since. Reports of his fate reached the International Red Cross and organizations like Amnesty International, leading to inquiries, but these have been met only with silence from American authorities.

Hi PatM. It sounds like the government is going ahead with naval upgrades eventually, but where do you think money is most needed now? The army, the air force?

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"A Liberal is someone who refuses to take his own side in a fight".

-Robert Frost

Well, what doesn't need the 13 billion Martin just sent to it is the US missile offense program. I know martin made a big deal in the news about "not signing" an agreement, but what it was he didn't sign was actually an AMMENDMENT to the agreement we already signed. Canada is 100% behind the US missile offense program and we pony'd up most of the extra military spendig to prove it. Very little of that new 13 billion in spending will actually be used for our Army, Navy, or Air Forces.

Other than that, the CF18s are getting old technology wise, some systems upgrades would be very welcome I would suspect. Our supply of tanks and AFVs is pretty small. The troops in Afghanistan should NOT be running around in Iltis jeeps, the should be in Grizzlies at the very least.

They now have G-wagons not Iltis, and did that 13 billion really go to that??!!

--Perturbed.

Whatever makes Canada an effective force in the Arctic.....

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RickW

>>>Connie Fogal, Leader of the Canadian Action Party, said on December 22,
2005 " Recent reports on the actions of Defence Staff Rick Hillier are
proof that Canada has abandoned any notion of independence from the US
military rule and has submitted to rule by unelected unaccountable military.
<<<

I am going to laugh my ass off when connies vote totals are in.

"Defence Staff Rick Hillier"??? Is that like kitchen staff to connie? Waitstaff? Chief of the Defence Staff, General Rick Hillier is a true canadian patriot, not some crackpot ninny... Don't quit your day job connie.

Canadians have a right to expect our military spending to be reflective of our needs to defend our nation. Canada's military ought to be under Canadian command at all times. Our military men and women have been sacrificed before by other country's leaders, why would we want to submit our people to this type of leadership again?

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If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?

Good point--you mean in World War I for Britain?

Canadians have a right to expect our military spending to be reflective of our needs to defend our nation<<

I don't think defending our Nation is the issue. We are not the aggressor or should say "were" not. As a Peace Keeper Canada needs a vast improvement. Even when I was in the Navy, our ships were 20 years old. The Gatineau & Terra Nova were refitted with ASROC & VDS. They were still 20 years old. The "Rainbow was a training sub but still a WWII vintage. When designed, the DDE & DDHs were ahead of their time. Canada stopped thinking military.

Defence is still the number one priority.

And those that think the Avro Arrow was a problem should really look at what Trudeau and Hellyer did to us naval types (Military men were dressed in Jolly greens and the contracts went to persons in Montreal. What should have happened with HMCS Brasd'or was the program should have advanced our fisheries patrol capabilities. But those vessels could have been built in Toronto Winnipeg, Vancouver, etc. Hey we could not even catch a factory ship in the '70's. Japanese "Koya Maru II" could come in at night, rape our banks off the queen Charlottes and then run back out to sea. Canada needed the fast patrol boat program- hydrofoil. So the Liberals scrapped it. 1995 twenty five years later Brian Tobin in Massachussetts is holding up a net....We had finally caught ONE...LOL
the newfies end up making him their Premier? The Liberal con of the Canadian Public has got to end.

We have been sold out on programs that line their pockets and pave the way for their continued dominance. People are falling through the cracks because of this misuse of power.(and tax payer $$$)
We did not need the Arrow to maintain our sovereignty,,,we needed the Hydrofoils to help maintain our fisheries though. Where would we be now? And yes they could run circles around the Russians and American Subs.

Thanks for reading my rant
Bob Lewis
Bobslink@sympatico.ca