A Political Party Focused On Reaching Sovereignty: Déjà-Vu Anyone?

I read it all, and it was a good read. I agreed with a good chunk of it.

I honestly think that perhaps people overestimate how much on the "radical 60s" was about the average Quebecois people....I think the reason that the PQ and Bloq Quebecois are pro pan-American dollar and pro-decentralization is the same reason that the PQ (and Liberals) cut services--because every major political movement was brought about by elites, be they federalist or separatist, and the elites would still be in charge had Quebec separated--they'd just be separatists instead of federalists, but they'd still believe in inequality.

---
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter --

Winston Churchill

Perturbed: I was not expected such kind support comments from your part but do welcome them. In regards to your claim that PQ&Bloc has soldout to the Americans, I will challenge you. I will not doubt that some elements in these parties (&provincial Libs) are seduced by the neocons, the unregulated markets, trading in US$, etc... Perhaps the usual politician posturing and negotiating ways? These parties however remain constrained by their grassroot and emerging opposition to their establishment. I would rather focus on these elements but your point is most valid. I certainly would like to hear from the Quebec Sovereignists on this. I notice this article generated very little discussion. That is a most interesting outcome for a site focussed on Sovereingty. It may be the old "Walking the talk" déjà-vu?

---
"We are all in this together somehow, some more than others somehow"

Ooopsie. I did not mean trading in US$, but meant preference over using a US$ over a C$.

---
"We are all in this together somehow, some more than others somehow"

(english translation to come later)<p>Qu'on le veuille ou pas, le status quo est devenu intenable autant pour les Québécois que pour un nombre grandissant de Canadiens. L'élection d'un gouvernement minoritaire en juin dernier est un symptôme de cet inconfort. <p> Plusieurs Canadiens s'éveillent au fait que leur économie, leur territoire et ses ressources naturelles ainsi que leurs valeurs sociales sont à risque, d'où cette recherche de souveraineté Canadienne, telle que présentée par notre confrère gaulois. <p> Pour certains, la voie de la réussite se situe dans un gouvernement fédéral fort et centralisé. Nous savons tous que cette approche ne pourra jamais se faire à moins d'y forcer le Québec, et la force ne donne jamais de résultats très probants. Avec les récents désenchantements de Terre-Neuve et de l'Alberta, ce n'est rien pour aider cet option centralisatrice. <p> Il est plus que grand temps que tous les Canadiens (Québécois et Premières Nations inclus) se penchent sur un nouveau modèle, non seulement pour renforcir la souveraineté Canadienne mais aussi celles des peuples qui composent le territoire tout entier. <p> Nous aurons besoin de leaders pour allumer la flamme d'un tel projet commun où tous pourront y trouver leur compte. Que voulons-nous exactement ? Un Canada centralisateur qui gave de force ses provinces ou une nouvelle entente décentralisatrice où tous peuvent y trouver leur compte tout en restant unis ? Il est temps que le Canada se réinvente en fonction de la nouvelle réalité de la mondialisation. Un système parlementaire datant du 17e siècle n'est plus la solution à notre réalité du 21e. La même situation se vit présentement aux États-Unis. La démocratie y agonise. Devons-nous attendre que leur réalité nous rattrape aussi ou avons-nous encore cette capacité de faire bouger les choses ? <p> Nous n'avons que deux choix; subir notre destinée ou la créer. <p> Soyons visionnaires que diable ! <p>---<br>« Il y a une belle, une terrible rationalité dans la décision d'être libre. » - Gérard Bergeron <br />

Let's see. Could we imagine some day that Canadians would become "Dead Ducks" too? Their young people would be disenfranchised, high unemployment, high suicide rate, limited to "no-end" jobs, be told that they are not worthwhile unless they become Americans or "globalize". The majority would be in this state of denial. Their politicians, public officials and bureaucrats would be sellouts and lackeys to these foreign interests. Some of the young people too. Some would talk about being passengers on the Titanic. As they say, sometimes the reality exceeds the fiction. Food-for-thoughts.

---
"We are all in this together somehow, some more than others somehow"

I get the feeling that this is what you`d like to see.

---
Dave Ruston

Dave: that is exactly what I am trying to prevent. What is really wrong with a country-wide Canadian Sovereignist party that aims to give power back to them as close to them as possible, i.e. in their provincial legislatures? The federal political party system is busted behind repair. The only possible way to fix is it starting anew from the grassroot! As far as I can tell, the approach has worked for Quebec, why would it not work for Canada?

---
"We are all in this together somehow, some more than others somehow"

It isn't a good idea because fractions of Canada mean fractions of the limited power we currently enjoy. The only reason the federal system isn't working out is because the best minds of this generation are not entering into federal politics. Instead, the best Quebecois minds (political at least) waste their energy in the separatist movement instead of attempting to build French solidarity, or even social-justice solidarity, across Canada. In the rest of the country, people feel that governments are either inaccessible or corrupt or irrelevant and chose to work elsewhere. As a result, we haven't had one great political leader since Trudeau in '84. That's 20 years of political decline at the federal level!

It doesn't all come down to one individual, of course, but the stronger our Federal government, the better able the entire country will be to withstand the devastating influence of the Americans. We can do it. We have done it for 400 years and we will continue to withstand them. As I see it, the Canadian nation is coming into sharper focus and a more powerful sense of itself. Now is the time for the Federal scene to radically shift focus to reflect the new reality. We need to get rid of sycophants like Manley and Martin, John Anderson and the current minister of defence. These people are much too willing to sell out the interests of the country. We also need 10 provinces and 3 territories walking in lockstep if we are ever to achieve the kind of independance we all -- as Canadians -- deserve.

G

There are discrepancies and contradictions in your text gorian. First you start by telling us there is only one reason why the federal system is not working. You say it is the because the best Québécois minds are wasting their energy on sovereignty. If they are so bright, shouldn’t we be asking them WHY they are putting it on sovereignty instead of federalism ? There has got to be a reason or maybe even more than one. <p> You then continue by saying how corrupt and irrelevant the government is and how the system has disenfranchized its population yet, you finish by exerting us to support and strenghten it.<p> Obviously, you know there are problems with the present system or you wouldn’t have been able to point them out so easily. If that's the kind of government is some Canadians want, fine. It’s their choice. There are others who would prefer to try to fix it. We have a minority government, a disgruntled population, separatist movements pointing their noses out of Newfoundland and Alberta and talk of sovereignty is still around in Québec. Wanting and even trying to get them all to walk in lockstep is an impossible dream and task. We might as well try herding cats. <p> Before an impossible task, you do what’s sensible, you look for other options. <p>---<br>« Il y a une belle, une terrible rationalité dans la décision d'être libre. » - Gérard Bergeron <br />

No, you misread what I wrote. I said that: "The only reason the federal system isn't working out is because the best minds of this generation are not entering into federal politics."

I then gave a number of suggestions why I feel the best minds are not getting involved -- or are getting involved only to poison the debate. Part of the problem is the perception of federal politics. There is so much "bad faith" right now that peopel aren't engaged. Part of that bad faith is political opportunitism (ie the provinces trying to weaken the country) and part of it is the fault of the weakness of the federal leaders (ie the politicians I mentioned). The solution is not pulling the plug on the country, that would only shift the same problem to a different -- smaller -- level. If Canada is getting pushed around, you think it's going to get better with 1/13th the international clout? Why do you think the once proud European nations have folded up shop and joined the EU? Because there is no room for small, powerless countries in a world dominated by the dinosaur to the south. Take a look down in South America, or the Caribbean for examples of what happens to small countries. We have a shot with Canada that we will lose without it. Even always-calm Switzerland is in crisis right now.

Furthermore, there is so much to lose by letting small fry provincial politicians have their power grab. This country is huge, wonderful, exciting, and has done and been through so much together. I've lived in most of the regions of the country and have been shocked by how similar we are across the country, across the languages (there are more than 2), across the time zones, across the landscapes. It's really shocking, and we are much more homogenous than the States. We have all the potential, and we are making good of much of it. This is a great country, a great and peaceful society. Our problems are pathetically small compared to real world problems -- and yet some power-grabbing blackmailing provincial politicians want to loot the house instead of tend to its problems. It's a great house. Let's work together and tidy it up.

G

gorian: if you check the story again, you will see that it was not suggested to leave it to the "Provinces" to decide how to do this massive decentralization for increasing Sovereingty of the lot, but to the People that we would elect at a federal level in a new Sovereingty focused party to do just this.

Face it, the Federal state is busted and it will not be fixed by this new Trudeau-like or whatever central "leader". Neither will it be fixed by our existing legacy federal parties carrying all this excess baggage.

Quebec was able to solve this political stalemate in the early 70s by creating this new PQ party. As far as I am concerned, it has worked well for Quebec and for Canada! Allthough I have never voted PQ in my life, there is not a single doubt in my mind that Québécois would have gone the way of many of our First Nations if the PQ had not come about: i.e. violence, substance abuse, and massive unemployment and total disenfranchisement. The ROC needs to swallow its pride, take a second look at what has actually happened there, and consider what will happen to Canada if we do not take similar Sovereignty focused measures. Losely coupled federations is a proven model for evolving and protecting a network. Increasing or maintaining central control is not.


---
"We are all in this together somehow, some more than others somehow"

I agree that central politicians have been bad, but honestly gaulois, to suggest the PQ have helped Quebec as of now, all they've done is gotten a bigger piece of the pie for Quebec. They haven't created new wealth--they've gotten more on Ontario's wealth. We can't have 10 provinces fighting more control like Quebec has.

I would argue that the Quebec issue has held this country back for 40 years, because it was so artificial. There may have been problems, but none that justified separation--i.e. a genocide, civil war, etc.

If the country decentralizes, then the foreign business interests will buy us up even faster. We're already a datellite country.

Quebec is more dependent on the U.S. now than it was before the separatist issue reared its ugly head. Hydroelectricity, lumber, and even porn are the biggest exports to the U.S.....the biggest city in Quebec is a shadow of its former self, and to me that's no sign of success.

---
The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter --

Winston Churchill

You need to refresh your information Perturbed. <p> <i>" The U.S. is Québec’s largest trading partner, buying 85% percent of Québec's international exports, and Québec ranks seventh among U.S. trading partners, ahead of the United Kingdom, France and Italy. Since the implementation of the Free Trade Agreement in 1989, two-way trade between the U.S. and Québec has soared to approximately US$56 billion a year."</i><p> As for Montreal being a 'shadow' of itself... maybe you got the city name wrong ? Could you have meant Toronto ?<p> <i>"According to Emploi-Québec, between 2002 and 2006, there will be more than 169,000 positions to be filled by Montrealers.  Some 82,000 (48%) of these jobs will be created through economic growth, these new jobs represent 28% of all jobs that will be created in Québec.  The other 87,000 (52%) jobs to be filled will be due to replacement of people who retire or pass away."</i><p> I've had headhunters contacting me regularly in the past 10 years. Privileged you say ? Of course I am and I'm not the only one. <p> All this to say that many Québécers feel they can handle their own affairs, that they have the ability and capability to do it also. The Quiet Revolution was the great awakener and the sovereignty movement gave it even more credence.

oopsie...the above anon comment was by michou

---
« Il y a une belle, une terrible rationalité dans la décision d'être libre. » - Gérard Bergeron