From The Green Party’s Leaders”s Blog
It is not easy to chart a new course. Unquestionably it is far easier to do the same old things over and over.
In Canadian political terms, the old and safe route is to beat up on all the other parties (constantly) while pointing out that only your party is virtuous. It shows the proper team spirit. My team versus your team. Sports analogies abound. It is a nice simple message. The party members love it.
The problem is the voters do not like it. Voters know it is a lot of stuff and nonsense. Voters, the public, are not very likely to be members of political parties. In fact, in recent surveys, more than 80% of Canadians have never belonged to a political party. What those voters, the majority of Canadians, would like is a way, despite this dreadful first past the post system, to see their views and values reflected in the House of Commons that gets elected.
There is a new book out called Two Cheers for Minority Government by political scientist, Peter Russell. In it he makes the case that Minority Governments are a more democratic option than "false majorities" – those governments with a majority of seats, but a minority of the popular vote. He also makes the case against the growth of the Imperial Prime Minister’s Office. On both counts, it is a book worth reading.
He also reviews the few halting efforts at cooperation in Canadian politics and the many examples internationally. It is in descriptions of international cooperation that the Green Party gets most frequently mentioned. These efforts are quite stable and produce good results.
We need to find a new way of doing things in
The different result is only possible if we actually do things differently.
The result I want is real action to address the climate crisis before it is too late. I want a new approach to peacekeeping and international security that puts nuclear disarmament at the top of the priority list. We need a democratic government, made up of all the MPs and not one Imperial Prime Minister. We need a parliament that will respect human rights, women’s rights, and make social justice a priority. We need Greens in Parliament. But not so much that we should trade off on the real goals of survival.
Taking a new approach implies risks. We can never compromise our principles. We can never accept something less than real reductions to avoid a global concentration of 425 parts per million of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Some limits are political. Others are real and irreversible.
The team mentality is an anachronism. The voters see it as a useless vestige. Members of all political parties need to examine the utility of blind partisanship. Democracy requires that we leave it behind.
http://www.greenparty.ca/en/node/4217
Several others here and elseware have said much the same. It is to anyone taking notice a given, but what do we do different?
Here is one motion I would like to see put forward, as posted previously by myself on Garth Turners blog during a discussion about the current governments misuse of the “confidence” vote. Would it make a difference? Undoubtedly. Would it pass a vote in the house? Not a bloody chance.
Whereas this government has for political gain made an excessive number of votes “a matter of confidence” and has made it impossible for MPs to vote upon the CONTENT of the bill without far reaching political implications.
And whereas the public elects its MPs to represent their interests not that of the political party to which they belong.
And whereas there are no limits upon what the government of the day can declare “a matter of confidence” or what can be included in such a bill in order to make it a “no win” scenario for those opposed to portions of said bill.
And whereas all partys and governments past, present and future need to cease playing games with the future of Canada and allow our representatives to vote as their conscious and / or constituents dictates not as dictated by the party elite.
Be it resolved that the ONLY vote in the house that shall cause the government to fall shall be one which contains the words “this house has no confidence in…..” , further that such a bill shall contain no other proposals or legislation but shall be purely a motion regarding the houses confidence in the government.
(even if the budget fails, go back and rework it or work with the opposition to make it acceptable, split it up and get what IS agreed upon passed, start making our parliament WORK but stop with the political BS)
I believe that the “whipped” vote should also be illegal, Mps must all be able to vote as they see fit without excessive interference by the Party hierarchy. It is obvious if you are a member of a group and consistently vote against their proposals that you will need to have a discussion as to whether you should continue to be part of same, but its gone WAY beyond that!
Any thoughts would this improve things?
Limiting confidence votes to motions specifically related to confidence is a good idea though. It really should have been part of of the bill fixing election dates.
The blindly voting for the party, with little regard for whether the MP will truly represent the electorate, is what has brought us to the point where the individual MP has become all but a yes man for the party. All partys are guily in that regard, but the current lot has taken it to a whole new level where any desent or even voicing an alternative opinion is viewed as unaceptable by the PMO and the unelected power brokers / advisors.
If we are going to vote for the party and then allow the party to dictate how the representives vote why bother voting for a local representitive at all. Just vote the party and let the small inner circle do as they please, which is pretty much how things are working now!
MPs can also speak out or vote against the whip. They will face discipline in most cases, but if they believe something, or have enough pressure from their ridings, there is no legal prohibition against it.
If you look at systems that are officially non-party...like those in our cities...you find that there are alliances and cliques that form that are essentially parties. The thing is that those civic candidates don't have to justify a party platform.
The case of the PMO is very different. You end up with an unelected shadow cabinet no matter what. In the case of the Harper government, that shadow cabinet is the worst ever...very dictatorial and secretive...but the power of the PMO is pretty absolute no matter who is in power.
That would be mitigated by your suggestion of taking away the government's ability to call everything a confidence vote.
The undeniable existence of an ignorant (more on this later) and apathetic electorate (Alberta’s recent provincial election comes to mind ) give the appearance of being dependant upon in political systems.
To believe in a system of “if’s” plays a large part in the topic we are discussing.”if’s” are the work of those in active roles of the political parties scenario writers and ought not to play a part in determining how to improve electoral turnouts.
Now back to the ignorance of of the electorate- it is the ignoring of combinded with a lack of knowledge of the “HOW” causing all the problems.
By-in-large people’s minds go where there are directed to go. Propagandists know this as do advertising agencies and that explains why those organizations are employed in politics.
Being told, via ads and PR hacks what to believe saves the electorate any hassle of doing their own thinking. Because I, Dio, place great value on thinking and how it is done I am always amused when I see the phrase “I think…”
In order to properly “think” there are several factors that need to be present. And in society of to-day they are not!
Start here, and don’t post anything else until what is contain there is fully understood!
http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=na ... +Thinking+
Here are selected samples
http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Abstracts/Gardner_on_Mithen.html
http://www.utc.edu/Administration/Walke ... index.html
What is Critical Thinking?
When examining the vast literature on critical thinking, various definitions of critical thinking emerge. Here are some samples:
• "Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action" (Scriven, 1996 ).
• "Most formal definitions characterize critical thinking as the intentional application of rational, higher order thinking skills, such as analysis, synthesis, problem recognition and problem solving, inference, and evaluation" (Angelo, 1995, p. 6 ).
• "Critical thinking is thinking that assesses itself" ( Center for Critical Thinking, 1996b ).
to be continued after re-boot
http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/pdf/current.pdf
Another declaration of faith from the REV......
I do tend to agree with the Rev on this one, for the reasons he has mentioned. It's hard to make a good decision as a voter when you're not sure how an MP will vote on any particular issue. It's better if the party has a platform, which usually comes from research and discussion. Remember that party policy is formed by all party members, by bringing forward resolutions etc., and as such party policy on any particular issue is likely to be the result of a democratic process, while if each individual MP votes alone then the potential for democratic participation is actually lessened).
Whipped votes means that we have a much smaller lobbying apparatus then in other places because a smaller group of people need to be convinced--you're not lobbying each individual MP, trying to get their "free" vote. This means smaller organizations can access MPs--they don't need to have millions of dollars and be highly organized. This means grassroots organizations and not just big, rich corporations have a chance of getting their voice heard on the Hill.
Another factor to consider is that sometimes a party uses a "free vote" on a particular issue to give themselves positive spin. The Conservatives have done this before. But is it really a free vote? The MPs still know what their party and leader prefers, and if they want to advance (especially in a ruling government, when cabinet positions etc, ie advancement in the party, will be on the line, not to mention just maintaining their CURRENT position in the party) they will still toe their own party's line. In other words, free votes aren't really free anyway.
However, whipped votes when used strategically can definitely be a contentious issue, and I'm not necessarily agreeing with the reasons for it every time a party whips a vote.
I still think the best way to improve the electoral system is proportional representation. Then at least you have a wider variety of parties represented in a more balanced way, and therefore a more democratic, multi-faceted discourse in the halls of power, likely with more potential for coalitions as well.
Susan don't be flippant, You obiviously haven't been following I was studying and practicing critical thinking lone before I became a member here and have made reference to that several times in the past From what I can tell it would be a good idea for you to do so as well.
Until one is ready to get ther head around the words of G.K. Chesterton they really haven't investigate exactly how goverment works.
It is not difficult at all to make good desicions on who to vote for, it only requires work, far more work than the average voter is willing to do to become informed.
The mechanics of democracy aside for the moment, I reiterate, until those from whom the elected get their power take a stronger interest in their own democratic well being we will continue to have the what we have now.
Fault lies with a lazy and apathetic citizenry.
What was the turn out in Alberta last provincial electon, 38%?
Free votes Party whips be damned!
It is the voter that is in need of "whipping" when they ignore their civic duties
the rest is acedemic clap trap
http://www.criticalthinking.org/article ... hought.cfm
Critical Thought wrote:
"The average brain is naturally lazy and tends to take the line of least resistance. The mental world of the ordinary man consists of beliefs which he has accepted without questioning and to which he is firmly attached; he is instinctively hostile to anything which would upset the established order of this familiar world. A new idea, inconsistent with some of the beliefs which he holds, means the necessity of rearranging his mind; and this process is laborious, requiring a painful expenditure of brain-energy. To him and his fellows, who form the vast majority, new ideas, and opinions which cast doubt on established beliefs and institutions, seem evil because they are disagreeable."
“The main mark of modern governments is that we do not know who governs, de facto any more than de jure. We see the politician and not his backer; still less the backer of the backer; or, what is more important of all, the banker of the backer. Throned above all, in a manner without parallel in all the past, is the veiled prophet of finance, swaying all men living by a sort of magic” - G. K. Chesterton
What you mean is that it is easier to deceive (or bribe) to forward an unpopular agenda. Not very democratic sounding to me. Sounds more like corruption.
But is that right? The Mp's we elect represent the INDIVIDUALS in their riding and we individuals should be able to at least try and express out point of view to him or her with some hope of changing things. We as voters do not have to means to directly influence (lobby) the hierarchy, our “lobbying” has to be via our representative. If he or she either does not listen or cannot vote the way he feels is best for his constituents is that democracy?
Just because a group has the funds, means or contacts to directly lobby government does that mean that smaller groups who work through their MP should have their ideas ignored?
Yes, Mp’s are elected in part (mostly, as it works now) for their partys platform, but we must protect their ability to vote on OUR behalf not that of the party. I too believe that some kind of proportional voting is needed, I favor one similar to the one that failed miserably to be adopted in Ontario (I believe due to lack of understanding and opposition from the major party machines) that allows the voter to select an Mp AND a Party.
My whole point is that we need to put more power into the individual MP’s who are our direct representatives and less in the Partys who are not. Finally Dio makes a good point when he says that the voters need to be whipped, unless there is greater involvement by the public we will soon move from our present Oligarchy to a defacto Dictatorship.
"This is my eighth year being an MP, spread over two decades, and yet I am just learning something most Canadians simply know is true. Nobody in this House of Commons has the answers to our challenges. There is no right and wrong, left or right. Ideology, partisanship and political parties are all part of the problem, since too often they stand in the way of compromise and a path forward."