Updates On Census Court Cases

 CONTENTS

(1)  IMPRESSIVE LIST OF RECENT MEDIA COVERAGE, FROM CHELSEA
    (opportunity for letters-to-editor)

(2)  GLOBE & MAIL, JULY 5, TWO FACE JAIL TIME IN CENSUS PROTEST (LOCKHEED
MARTIN CONTRACT FOR CENSUS WORK)

(3)  NO CHARGES SOUGHT FOR 35,000 NATIVES WHO IGNORE CENSUS (***IMPORTANT:
I CITE THIS ONLY BECAUSE OF the StatsCan statement in the newspaper
articles:  "Mr. Morrison called the response to the census a "resounding
success," especially on Canada's native reserves.")

(4)  LETTER-TO-EDITOR, "I AM NOT BREAKING THE LAW" 

(5)  GLOBE & MAIL WEBSITE, COMMENTS FROM READERS


(Note:  This email follows "(1 of X) Industrial:  Canadian military strategy
document - serious").

For those new to our network, Todd Stelmach from Kingston ON is one of the
two who "face jail time" in the following newspaper article.  Media
attention is focusing on the court cases at this early, pre-trial stage
which is just great.  Chelsea Stelmach (Todd is her husband) sent in a
partial list of the newspapers that carried the article written by Joshua
Clipperton from Canadian Press.  

I am the other one of the two names in the article.  My surname is spelt
incorrectly.

Today I spoke with a reporter from the Canwest group. If the reporter
receives clearance, Canwest papers will also carry a story about the Census
boycott because of Lockheed Martin's involvement.

I have submitted an Op-Ed piece to the Globe & Mail.  I want to bridge from
the story of the Census trials over to the Canada First Defence Strategy so
that Canadians understand the mechanics of the process.  The
military-industrial complex is and has been tunnelling into Canada. Lockheed
Martin is the perfect vehicle through which to explain HOW it is done.

More accurate than "military-industrial complex" is
"government-military-industrial complex". (From email 1 of X, re Dwight
Eisenhower's farewell speech: "...Eisenhower initially used the term
military-industrial-congressional complex, and thus indicated the essential
role that the United States Congress plays in the propagation of the
military industry. But, it is said, that the president chose to strike the
word "congressional" in order to placate members of the legislative branch
of the federal government."  

The new Canada First Defence Strategy spells out very clearly that it is a
"government-military-industrial complex":
1.  "A Military in Partnership with Canadian Industry
The Canada First Defence Strategy will also have significant benefits for
Canadian industry."
2.  "It will also allow the Government to develop a stronger, mutually
beneficial relation-ship with industry."

Cheers! (maybe)

/Sandra 

=============

(1)  IMPRESSIVE LIST OF RECENT MEDIA COVERAGE, FROM CHELSEA STELMACH 

First, many thanks to Chelsea and to Todd!  

I had a good laugh over the middle-of-page cartoon on the blog
http://aprilreign.breadnroses.ca/2008/07/todd-stelmach-and-sandra-findley-re
member-those-names/  

Also - there is a very good letter to the Kingston Whig Standard about
people who pray but don't take action, valuable words of local support for
the Stelmachs.

I find that a sense of peace follows successful action. Personal inaction in
the face of awareness only makes me frustrated and angry.

Best to you all down there in Kingston,

Sandra 


(from Chelsea:))
So, it looks like a larger number of news agencies have picked up Todd's
story, and now we're getting calls at the house ...
News:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080705/census_jail_/20
080705?hub=Canada 

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/07/06/census-protest.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080705.wcensus-jail0705
/BNStory/National/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20080705.wcensus-jail0705 

http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=n070519A 

http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1094191 

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2008/07/06/6080251-sun.html 

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/1066043.html 

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/section/CPNSTEIN&TaxIDList=20303936&Word=Todd%20St
elmach 

(And many others! just google Todd's name)

Blogs:
http://aprilreign.breadnroses.ca/2008/07/todd-stelmach-and-sandra-findley-re
member-those-names/ 
http://www.benedictionblogson.com/2008/06/12/christians-wrestle-with-lockhee
d-martinstats-can/ 

chelsea
www.thehousefamous.blogspot.com 


===================

(2)  GLOBE & MAIL, JULY 5, TWO FACE JAIL TIME IN CENSUS PROTEST

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080705.wcensus-jail0705
/BNStory/National/home      

Two face jail time in census protest
JOSHUA CLIPPERTON 

The Canadian Press

July 5, 2008 at 4:39 PM EDT

TORONTO - At least two people who defiantly refused to complete the 2006
Canadian census in protest of a software contract awarded to an arms
manufacturer say they are willing to go to prison over the issue.

Todd Stelmach and Sandra Findley have never met, but are linked both by
their cause and subsequent legal fight.

The two refused to hand in their 2006 census forms because Lockheed Martin
won the contract to upgrade Statistics Canada's software.

The billion-dollar American arms dealer supplies weapons to armies around
the world, including for the war in Iraq.

Ms. Findley, 59, said she first heard about Lockheed Martin's potential bid
for the software contract in 2003 and immediately got in touch with
Statistics Canada to voice her displeasure.

"[(Lockheed Martin] makes billions of dollars through the business of
killing people, and destroying the environment in the process of killing
people," Ms. Findley said from her home in Saskatoon.

"So there's no way that I'm going to see my tax dollars go to help enrich
them."

Mr. Stelmach's decision to protest the company's involvement in gathering
Canadian data was quite different.

The 32-year-old Kingston, Ont., resident actually filled out his form before
he and his wife heard about a census opposition group called Count Me Out.

"We discovered Lockheed Martin was outsourced by [Statistics Canada] to
upgrade their software and do a lot of the processing of the 2006 census,"
said Mr. Stelmach.

"This just shocked me and at first I thought it was a bit of a hoax."

Failing to complete the national census is a federal offence. Ms. Findley
and Mr. Stelmach both face a maximum penalty of three months in jail and a
$500 fine.

Mr. Stelmach said he met with Crown lawyers on Friday and was offered the
opportunity to fill out the form and receive a reduced fine with no jail
time.

Mr. Stelmach has already refused similar offers and said he will plead not
guilty in court Aug. 8.

Ms. Findley's court date is set for early 2009.

Statistics Canada forwards the files of people who refuse to fill out the
form to federal authorities, who then decide if charges should be laid.

Census branch director-general Peter Morrison said charges are only laid
against someone "who has made a very conscious decision numerous times not
to comply with the legal requirement of the census."

"It is the law."

The federal government uses the census to determine the level of funding
jurisdictions across the country receive. In 2007/2008 nearly $70-billion
was transferred, Mr. Morrison said.

Most of the 65 people charged for not filing the 2006 census have now
complied, he said.

Mr. Morrison called the response to the census a "resounding success,"
especially on Canada's native reserves.

Still, residents of 22 reserves failed to complete the form, but Mr.
Morrison blamed the number on rural access. 

"You're not going to charge everybody on the reserve because you can't get
access to it," he said.

Fifty-two cases of incomplete forms were referred to the federal Justice
Department after the 2001 census, with seven people being convicted.

Because of trade agreements such as NAFTA the bidding process for government
contracts is open internationally to companies like Lockheed Martin.

Mr. Morrison also said concerns the arms dealer would be handling Canadians'
personal information is unfounded.

He likened the company's role to that of a programmer upgrading a personal
computer.

"Under no circumstances does anyone other than a Statscan employee, sworn in
under the Statistics Act ever have access to any confidential census
information," he said.

Ms. Findley and Mr. Stelmach both said they've received resounding support
from family, friends and co-workers - many of whom had no idea Lockheed
Martin was involved in the census.

Both say they're comfortable with their decision and hope the Canadian
government will be more "ethical" in the contracts it awards in the future.

"There's no reason on Earth that the Canadian census, any part of it, needed
to be contracted out to enrich [Lockheed Martin]," said Ms. Findley

The next census is in 2011, with the bidding for the next software contract
currently under way.

=================


(3)  NO CHARGES SOUGHT FOR 35,000 NATIVES WHO IGNORE CENSUS  (***IMPORTANT:
I CITE THIS ONLY BECAUSE OF the StatsCan statement in the G&M:  "Mr.
Morrison called the response to the census a "resounding success,"
especially on Canada's native reserves.")

A repeated theme of my work over the years has been that Government use of
"spin doctors" or "communications specialists" also contributes to the
undermining of our system of governance. We learn to mistrust what the
GOvernment says, because too many times we see through the spin. It is as
though we are thought to be stupid.

In the G&M article above, Census branch director-general Peter Morrison is
quoted:  "Mr. Morrison called the response to the census a "resounding
success," especially on Canada's native reserves."

The response to the Census was a disaster that caused large cost overruns as
the Government sought to get compliance.  The part of the statement related
to First Nations, of and by itself is true.  But in the context of the court
cases it is very misleading.

First Nations' compliance is a separate issue.  It was being handled well by
StatsCan, Jan.2008):  "Statistics Canada seeks co-operative approach as
compliance climbs".  

"Charges won't be pursued against natives on reserves because their
compliance rates used to be considerably worse, says Anil Arora, director
general of the census program branch at Statistics Canada."

... oh.  What we see here is that the Census branch director-general has
changed in the time since the article was written in January 2008.  Anil
Arora does not appear to be at the helm any longer.


http://www.thestar.com/News/article/294018    

No charges sought for 35,000 natives who ignore census

By the numbers 

Native census participation rates

1986: 952 reserves, 136 incomplete

1991: 1,123 reserves, 78 incomplete

2001: 1,080 reserves, 30 incomplete

2006: 1,123 reserves, 22 incomplete
Statistics Canada seeks co-operative approach as compliance climbs

Jan 15, 2008 04:30 AM 
Robyn Doolittle 
Staff Reporter

Thousands of natives across Canada refused to complete the 2006 census -
including the Six Nations in Ontario - and will not face any legal
consequences, despite the fact that 64 people not living on reserves were
charged under the Statistics Act. 

Charges won't be pursued against natives on reserves because their
compliance rates used to be considerably worse, says Anil Arora, director
general of the census program branch at Statistics Canada.

"One has to pick a path. One has to pick a road and you pick a road that is
obviously yielding success. Twenty years of experience has shown us that
working with the community is the best," Arora said. 

The maximum penalty for not completing the census is a $500 fine and three
months in prison. Of the 64 charged, nearly all decided to complete it
rather than go to court.

Some 35,000 people living on reserves refused to complete the census, Arora
said. As a courtesy, Statistics Canada seeks permission from the band office
before entering the reserve, although it isn't legally obligated to do so.
The census isn't mailed out to reserves, because many still use a P.O. box
system, which means census takers can't verify addresses, Arora said. 

In 1986, there were 952 reserves in Canada. Of those, about 136 reserves
refused to complete the questionnaires. As a result, an aboriginal liaison
committee was established, which employed and trained native people to
conduct the surveys.

By comparison, there are 1,123 reserves across Canada today, with 22
refusing to complete the census. 

However, said Arora, more and more reserves are modernizing so that in the
future Statistics Canada may be able to mail the census form directly to
people on the reserves. 

Six Nations, outside Brantford, is one of the largest reserves that refused
to participate in 2006. 

Chief William Montour hopes to change the reserve's attitude. Montour first
served as chief between 1985 and 1991. After working in the government more
than a decade, he was re-elected in December.

He used to agree with the majority of his constituents the census wasn't
something native people should be forced to complete. For one, Canadian
reserves are bombarded by government pollsters, he said. People don't
understand the use of the census. And, most important, a deep distrust of
the federal government remains. 

"I used to think this way. I've since changed my mind," said Montour. "We've
got to convince the community that we've got to have these kinds of numbers.
More and more it gives us the ability to argue for more programs and
services."

Natives on reserves have to answer the long questionnaire - which normally
only one in five Canadians get - because "that information is in demand,"
said Arora. 

Six Nations claims a population of about 22,800 natives. There could be
hundreds more non-status natives, perhaps with aboriginal relatives, living
on the reserve.

At the Alderville First Nation community, outside Cobourg, a notice went out
in the community newsletter that census takers, many from within the native
community, would be stopping by.

"If people wanted to do it they could," said Chief James Marsden. "I think
it's good myself. For resources and funding, it's good to have the proper
count for Ontario."

But it's a tough sell to some, he said. "It's probably the same as voting,"
he said. "A lot of bands won't vote in federal or provincial elections. `We
have our own jurisdiction. We're our own nation.'"

===========================


(4)  LETTER-TO-EDITOR, "I AM NOT BREAKING THE LAW"

Email:  letters@globeandmail.com

Re:  Two face jail time in census protest, July 5

TO:  GLOBE AND MAIL
REQUEST TO THE EDITOR RE OP-ED  ...

I did not fill in my 2006 Census form. Part of the Census work was
contracted out to Lockheed Martin Corporation, the world's number one arms
dealer that makes billions of dollars through wars and violence.

I am not breaking the law.  

If my case is properly argued, I will be found "not guilty".  The Statistics
Act says that I, the citizen, must comply but it doesn't end there. It sets
out conditions for the Government. I also have responsibilities as a
citizen.   

StatsCan says "Most of the 65 people charged for not filing the 2006 census
have now complied".  

Yes, most of the protestors have complied.  One person sitting in isolation,
without people to impartially explain the Statistics Act, intimidated by the
court system, without adequate financial resources or time or knowledge or
experience, will fill in the form. They get a reduced fine and no jail time
in exchange. They hold out as long as possible.

My trial is January 7 and 8, 2009 so I have time.  I am not isolated;  I ask
for help.   I am very grateful for the support received, I know I could not
stand on my own.  I cannot afford lawyer bills which might run to more than
ten thousand dollars.  So I will represent myself in court, if absolutely
necessary.  I do not have the skills to defend against the day-and-a-half of
prosecutor's arguments, but there is time to figure that part out, too. 


Others share my concerns.  In 2003-04 there was fierce protest generated by
news of the Lockheed Martin Census contract.  In response Statistics Canada
reduced the involvement of Lockheed in the Census.  2006 Census work is just
one of the contracts awarded to Lockheed Martin.  In 2004 they were awarded
a multi-year contract worth $56 million to look after the medical records of
the Canadian military.  In January 2008 "the purchase contract for 17 C-130J
Hercules aircraft was valued at approximately $1.4 billion U.S., with an
additional amount to be added in 2009 for at least 20 years of in-service
support".  That's a sampling.

Lockheed Martin figures prominently in the new Canadian "defence" strategy
(June 19), which requires some explanation. 

The language of the strategy leads one to believe that Canadian industries
will be the beneficiaries:

"A Military in Partnership with Canadian Industry
The Canada First Defence Strategy will also have significant benefits for
Canadian industry. The infusion of long-term stable funding it provides will
enable industry to reach for global excellence and to be better positioned
to compete for defence contracts at home and abroad, thus enabling a
pro-active investment in research and development and opportunities for
domestic and international spin-offs as well as potential commercial
applications."  

There is a lot of money to be had.  Minister responsible, Peter Mackay: "...
reveals details of $490-billion defence strategy to modernize military".  

Who gets the money?  Tax-payors pay it. The billion-dollar contracts are
awarded to Lockheed Martin. Lockheed works with Canadian industries: "Under
the in-service support portion, the contractor will be required to spend in
Canada 75 per cent of the total cost in direct industrial regional benefits
- well above the 60-per-cent ratio negotiated by the previous government for
purchases of this magnitude."  (Source:  Michael M Fortier, Minister of
Public Works, Government press release, January 2008.)

Also:  "Dalhousie University is announcing a multi-million dollar research
contract with Lockheed-Martin. This contract is the result of government
policy, which requires a foreign company to invest in Canada before it can
enter into a government contract."

These are called "offset agreements".  They will in time duplicate the
American military-industrial complex, in Canada.  Some say that has already
happened.

The only way that Lockheed Martin has excess money to dole out, is if the
government contracts are exorbitant. The contracting-out of the Census and
other purchases have nothing to do with the efficiency of Lockheed Martin
because it is the private sector doing the work.  It has everything to do
with transnational corporate access to the public purse through Government
contracts and contacts.  In the U.S., Lockheed Martin spent more on lobbying
Congress than any of its competitors, spending $9.7 million in 2002. Only
General Electric and Philip Morris reported more lobbying expenses. In the
2004 election cycle, Lockheed contributed more than $1.9 million.

The June 19, 2008 "Canada First Defence Strategy" says that Canada needs to
have "compatible doctrine" with the U.S., along with  being "interoperable".
Lockheed Martin is an obvious vehicle through which to become interoperable.


80% of Lockheed's money comes from the Government of the USA.  The biggest
chunk of the 80% is from military contracts.  (It should be noted that
Lockheed is diversifying into other Government service areas.  The Canadian
census is one example.  Lockheed is also set to perform "data capture" and
other services for the 2011 Census in the United Kingdom, depending upon the
resistance in the UK.  It does US census work.  The medical records of
Canadian soldiers have already been mentioned.)

Canadian defence strategy is to become "compatible" in "doctrine" with the
U.S..  The problem with the "doctrine" of the Bush Administration is that
killing creates hatred.  Hatred breeds violence. Violence becomes terrorism.
It is known that dropping bombs on people is counter-productive.  But
lucrative for Lockheed Martin.  

The killing-combat model (doctrine) only escalates problems.  It does not
mobilize the tremendous power of people, as Gandhi did.  A crowd of
thousands, eventually millions, will overcome the various forms of violence,
given time. It is the fastest road to peace.  The killing ways of "combat"
add to the hatred, prolong the conflict, is transferred from one generation
to the next and will destroy the earth.  In its long history, the killing
ways have never accomplished peace, only destruction.  This planet is and
has been our one and only home. 

Another individual who understands that we must discover alternatives to the
killing ways is George Soros. George Soros is a self-made billionaire.  He
helps bring freedom-fighters from various countries to the U.S. where they
are trained in resistance.  They return to their countries to help overthrow
oppressive regimes.  Soros works with local people "on-the-ground".  It is
about empowerment, the best weapon.  

Becoming compatible with "the doctrine" of the Bush Administration, its
buddies in Halliburton Corporation, Lockheed Martin, the contracting-out to
mercenaries, etc., Canada too is setting up to cash in on "combat".  Is that
what we want for "defence" strategy - -  opportunities to make money?
(Really, it is a transfer of money out of the public purse to the military
industry that has record profits because of illegal and immoral war.)

The Canada First Defence Strategy states: "It will also allow the Government
to develop a stronger, mutually beneficial relation-ship with industry."
The role of Governments is the relationship with human beings and other
species, not corporations.

Canadians need to determine
- how much it will really cost Canadians and
- who benefits from this $490-billion defence strategy to modernize the
military under Minister of Defence, Peter Mackay.

But getting back to Lockheed's contract for Census work, the reason I will
be on trial in January:
In the G&M article, Census branch director-general Peter Morrison is quoted:
"Mr. Morrison called the response to the census a "resounding success,"
especially on Canada's native reserves."

The response to the 2006 Census (May) was a disaster that caused huge cost
overruns. You may remember all the "Count Me In" advertising.  By July,
2006, ten thousand people from B.C. alone had still not filled in their
Census forms. A portion of the overruns should be included in the costs when
the "low-bid" from Lockheed Martin is considered.  

The part of the statement related to First Nations (a "resounding success,"
especially on Canada's native reserves."), of and by itself might be true.
But in the context of the court cases it is very misleading.   From
newspaper reports in January 2008:  "Charges won't be pursued against
natives on reserves because their compliance rates used to be considerably
worse, says Anil Arora, director general of the census program branch at
Statistics Canada."  The head line of the newspaper article is: "No charges
sought for 35,000 natives who ignore Census."  

First Nations' compliance was being handled well by StatsCan:  "Statistics
Canada seeks co-operative approach as compliance climbs".  There has been a
change.  The January 2008 article names Anil Arora as branch
director-general; the July 5 news report identifies Peter Morrison as branch
director-general.  

The frank and honest approach of Government (Anil Arora) builds respect.
Misleading statements bring disrespect and distrust.  So does Lockheed
Martin's record of court convictions and fines amounting to tens of millions
of dollars.

If Lockheed Martin was a person, they would be in jail.  If they could not
hide behind the corporate person, their conscience would bother them.  

I am a person and so eligible for the jail cell. I have a conscience which
is clear.  With effort and help I will, in justice, stay out of jail!

Sandra Finley
Saskatoon

===============================

(4)  GLOBE & MAIL WEBSITE, COMMENTS FROM READERS

(I edited out some of the irrelevancy.) 

Re:  Two face jail time in census protest
JOSHUA CLIPPERTON 


Both refused to hand in forms because Lockheed Martin won the contract to
upgrade Statistics Canada's software ... 

blue nose from Calgary, Canada writes: I used to work for Statscan doing
telephone surveys from 2003-2006 and this is the first time I've ever heard
of someonce actually facing jail time or a fine for refusing to do one of
their surveys.

Of the thousands of surveys I did with people from all over Canada, only
once did I hear anything about the Lockheed Martin issue. Many people
groaned when they found out their household was selected to do a survey, and
some weren't too happy when they realized that they were obligated by law to
do some of them (Labour Force Survey).

I don't see any problem with awarding the contract to LM, if they were the
lowest bidder, then Statscan is saving taxpayers money. 


Stewart Mawdsley from Canada writes: They have my support. Lougheed Martin
is right up there with Halliburton for companies profiting off of death, war
and human misery. Kudos to these two for drawing attention to this issue. 


Jack Robertson from Toronto, Canada writes: It's a shame that millions more
Canadians didn't join them in refusing to support the U.S. war industry.
Given that these two people will become political prisoners if jailed,
Amnesty International should take up their cause. 

siren call from Canada writes: I sure hope the Harper government gets real
tough on these scofflaws.

Really, just because Lougheed Martin is one of the greatest purveyors of
misery, hopelessness and death on the planet -- still their bid came in the
lowest (?) and that's what really matters.

(Wish I had known about this and refused my census form.) 


blue nose from Calgary, Canada writes: Lockheed Martin doesn't kill people,
governments that go to war kill people! 


Bob McDonald from Canada writes: Lockheed Martin is just one of the military
corporations support by Harper. He authorized the spending of billions for
new aircraft from these war mongers while the Canadian aero industries
lanquish. The NeoCons in Ottawa are anti-Canadian fascist same as the
hoodlums in Washington. 


Slippery Slope from Canada writes: Whatever happened to freedom of Privacy? 


Robert Boyd from Windsor, Canada writes: It's the law and the law requires
that your personal information be auctioned off to anyone who ponies up the
do-ri-mi.
Fcuking Nazis. 

Rt. Revd. Malachy Egan from Halifax, Canada writes: StatsCan is an oozing
sinkhole for taxdollars. It's 'stats' are utterly useless and the
organization as a whole is a nepotic federal nightmare which provides
sinecures for those related to the powerful and their closest cronies.

Hooray for Todd Stelmach and Sandra Findley I admire them, support them, and
having refused to complete the last inane survey that StatsCan threw in my
direction [I recall it was about how the 'clumping' quality of kitty-litter
makes my life easier despite Harper's arrogant government and their federal
contracts with the agents of death] , I am ready to go to jail with them. 


Larfing Outloud from Virgin Islands (British) writes: Robert Boyd from
Windsor, Canada writes: 'It's the law and the law requires that your
personal information be auctioned off to anyone who ponies up the do-ri-mi.
Fcuking Nazis.' 

Fcuking A. 

Absolutely right on comment. 


Vote NDP in the next federal/ provincial election from Toronto, Canada
writes: There's something wrong with this census. First they threaten you
with prosecution if you don't fill it out. Then what's the point then. Why
don't we guess our figures from now on then.

Why is the government awarding a contract with an American company. The
problem is that the American government doesn't believe in privacy hence USA
patriot Act and with an American company contributing to the census then
there's the fear that Canadian information can be used in the States for
unauthorized purposes. I'm sure that Canadian companies can do a much better
job here with lower costs. 

I stand behind the two people who are facing prosecution and we the people
should dedicate the resources necessary to defend them.

On another note, I hope Lockheed Martin will go bankrupt for the foreseeable
future. 


Robert Loblaw from Canada writes: Rt. Revd. Malachy Egan - The census in
question was in 2003. 

The 'federal contracts with the agents of death' were not signed by Harper's
government, but by Chretiens.


Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes: 
If, unlike some people, you lack immunity from prosecution, the solution is
to answer incorrectly. Not blatantly so you get your butt thrown into the
slammer, but enough to throw the civil service bean counters off. 


A Concerned Canadian from Vancouver, Canada writes: I'm happy to see there
are a few Canadians left who are willing to stand up for what they believe
in. 


Rick C from Canada writes: Their reason is irrelevant. They can do the jail
time for their crime. 


Justin Campbell from Ottawa, Canada writes: Rt. Revd. Malachy Egan from
Halifax, Canada writes: 'StatsCan is an oozing sinkhole for taxdollars. It's
'stats' are utterly useless and the organization as a whole is a nepotic
federal nightmare which provides sinecures for those related to the powerful
and their closest cronies.'

In fact, Statistics Canada and the quality of its work is highly respected.
The Economist magazine calls it the 'best statistical office in the world',
and many other reputable publications have made similar pronouncements.
(http://www.sshrc.ca/web/apply/background/cissaboute.asp)


Robert Rivers from France writes: Compliance... NO MATTER WHAT. 

Nassar Ben Houdja from Canada writes: Criminals, sentence them to a life as
galley slaves on one of BC ferries, soon to be converted from diesel. Time
to treat criminals like the vermin they are, and reduce BC's carbon
footprint. 


bobloblaw,better read the article again,it's the 2006 census. 


Robert Loblaw from Canada writes: garlick toast - Take your own advice -
read the article and then read my post. 

The awarding of the contract to Lockheed Martin took place in 2003. Thats
what Ms. Findley was protesting. 

So, what's the answer? The answer is, as it always is, continue the current
charade as long as the electorate will stand for it. Historically, the
status quo only changes when the body politic no longer meets the needs of a
significant majority of the people. I read these posts with almost daily
amusement, so forgive me if I say that now in 2008 the balace of
satisfaction versus disatisfaction appears to be about 50/50. [The reasoning
ranges from factual, through irrational to assinine.] I guess a swing of 15
to 30% from one side or the other ought to make for an interesting
situation, don't you think? 


Chester Mere from No Fixed Address, Ont, Canada writes: I can understand the
census wanting some basic info but for decades we have been bothered with
surveys wanting details of our farming op usually during seeding or some
other busy time. And the long form wants such details as utility costs per
year and it would take quite a while to compile the info to fill it out
truthfully. But maybe as many people lie high as lie low so it averages out.
Too bad the privacy acts don't protect us from nosey governments. 

Mark Shore from soemwhere in Canada, Canada writes: I did know about
Lockheed Martin's involvement but filled the census out like a good little
robot anyway.

For some reason I had a hard time remembering my income, education level,
ethnicity, religion, languages spoken, etc. so I just took my best guess.

After all we Afro-Inuit Zoroastrians have to stand up and be counted or we
just get ignored. 


Alberta Dennis Notso,redneck from Canada writes: I hope they throw them in
jail. Plain stupid to complain about who gets the upgrade contract. I
suggest if they do not like what happens here then get out period. 

michael moore from toronto, Canada writes: Lockeed helped write the
software. They don't get to handle the data. It's like saying the guy who
sewed the pocket into your pants gets to look through your wallet. There are
causes worth standing up for -- even going to jail for -- but this one
misses the boat. All emotion and no sense, like most of the posts in this
string. 


brian bishop from Brantford, Canada writes: The "Statistics Act" already
contains enough valid reasons for not completing the census, below is a
sampling. Besides there's no law that requires anyone to read mail! 3. There
shall continue to be a statistics bureau under the Minister, to be known as
Statistics Canada, the duties of which are (b) to collaborate with
departments of government in the collection, compilation and publication of
statistical information, including statistics derived from the activities of
those departments 9.Use of sampling methods (2) Notwithstanding anything in
this Act, the Minister may authorize the use of sampling methods for the
collection of statistics. 1970-71-72, c. 15, s. 8. 0. (1) The Minister may
enter into any arrangement with the government of a province providing for
any matter necessary or convenient for the purpose of carrying out or giving
effect to this Act, and in particular for all or any of the following
matters: (b) the collection by any provincial department or provincial
officer of any statistical or other information required for the purpose of
this Act: and (c) the supplying of statistical information by any provincial
department or provincial officer to the Chief Statistician. Returns under
Income Tax Act 24. For the purposes of this Act and subject to section 17,
(a) the Chief Statistician or any person authorized by the Chief
Statistician to do so may inspect and have access to any returns,
certificates, statements, documents or other records obtained on behalf of
the Minister of National Revenue for the purposes of the Income Tax Act or
Part IX of the Excise Tax Act
http://www.statcan.ca/english/about/statact.htm 
Posted 05/07/08 at 11:53 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment 

The Globing Male from Formerly of Beantown, United States writes: "Vote NDP
in the next federal/ provincial election from Toronto, Canada writes: I
stand behind the two people who are facing prosecution and we the people
should dedicate the resources necessary to defend them." 
...typical socialist - stand BEHIND them to protect them, so you don't take
the bullet. But you can claim later that you were there just the same, and
in so, take the glory. 


Mister G. from Canada writes: Some people also refuse to pay taxes because
they don't agree on how the government spends it. Trow the scumbags in jail.
It's the law to fill the census form in Canada just like it is the law to
pay your taxes. 

Joe Liberali from Canada writes: What could be worse? That the data is
processed by Lockhead in the US?(which would be wonderfully expropriated by
the US gov't under the PATRIOT act). 


Joe V from Canada writes: Lockheed Martin is a well-run corporation with a
history of technological success. I'll bet unlike most Canadian companies
that could have been contracted, StatCan probably got their money's worth on
this contract. As for the actions of the U.S. government, don't blame the
supplier of military hardware. Would you prefer that the U.S. military had
junk equipment, leaving Canada defenseless? 


Cognitively Cogitative from Canada writes: The Canadian government benefits
substantially from taxes collected from WMD manufacturers. Why shouldn't
they award contracts to these same war profiteers. 

Canadian Woman from Canada writes: Good old NCP boys! Wasting our time &
money again on prosecution of a few people who didn't fill out their bloody
census. And yes, boys! LET"S waste a bunch more money on imprisoning these
evil-doers! My god! This Gov. keeps on disgusting me more and more. Well.
The good news is that at least they're consistently disgusting. 

Dave of the North from Yellowknife NT, Canada writes: No .. Really... send
me one of these census dealies to fill out. Out of principle alone I will
tell you where to go. There was a time when doing something illegal meant
you were doing something wrong. How sad that this is no longer the case. 

Randy D from Canada writes: I'd say I hope they become new brides in their
cells but being from the left undoubtedly they'd like that. 

4Cryin Outloud from Canada writes: Statscan at the time said they contracted
out to a foreign weapons maker because there was no one in Canada basically
smart enough to handle the sofware upgrade. Then they said "don't worry, no
one will have access to your private information because we will be in
charge of that". I asked if you're not smart enough to do the software when
did you become smart enough to monitor what the software can do?

Statscan has become nothing more than an information gatherer for business
and there's enough of that going on already without us paying a huge
bureucracy to make it unlawful for noncompliance. Talk about fascism. 

-------- 

Read the article - the previous government also prosecuted individuals for
refusing to fill out the census forms.

Michael Powers from Canada writes: Listening to all of these self-proclaimed
hero's is always good for a chuckle in the morning.

To the ramparts, we have to defend ourselves against whatever nutty cause
there is today after all it is silly season and we have to keep ourselves
entertained. 

James C from Shenzhen, China writes: they'll be found guilty, but probably
be given several chances to make up for it before serving time. make an
example of them, throw the book at them. 

Troy Ackerman from Canada writes: Bob McDonald from Canada writes: Lockheed
Martin is just one of the military corporations support by Harper. He
authorized the spending of billions for new aircraft from these war mongers
while the Canadian aero industries lanquish. The NeoCons in Ottawa are
anti-Canadian fascist same as the hoodlums in Washington.
__________________Well, if the Canadian aero industry was capable of
producing aircraft of the same type and ability for the same cost we would
have. Look at the Griffon helicopter we got from a Canadian company! The
thing is junk! Should have used the US helicopter industry to get Blackhawks
instead. The yanks make the best stuff, so why not buy off them. WHat is it
with all this neo-con anti Cananda crap anyway? Guess the party you voted
for didn't win, eh. 


Anthony B from Maritimes, Canada writes: "Because of trade agreements such
as NAFTA the bidding process for government contracts is open
internationally to companies like Lockheed Martin"

So, if a Canadian company was the lowest bidder to write software which
collects personal data on US citizens, it would get the contract?

"He (Mr. Morrison) likened the company's role to that of a programmer
upgrading a personal computer"

And we all know that a programmer would NEVER look at the data on our
computers, right? 

"Under no circumstances does anyone other than a Statscan employee, sworn in
under the Statistics Act ever have access to any confidential census
information," he said.

Well it's comforting to know that Statscan doesn't share confidential
information with CSIS, the RCMP, Revenue Canada, etc. Oh, and I also believe
in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. 

Jeffrey Hallow from Canada writes: What's with the jokes about purposely
messing up the stats??? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The
census and the statistics are vitally important to so many aspects of
Canada, I can't imagine why anyone would want to mess with that.

I hate Lockheed too but these people broke they law. They should be fined or
even jailed. If anyone purposely does not fill out census OR if anyone
purposely lies on their census form they should face criminal charges. 

Jeffrey Hallow from Canada writes: Anthony B from Maritimes, Canada writes: 
And we all know that a programmer would NEVER look at the data on our
computers, right? 

Anythony - it's actually very simple for StatsCan to ensure they do NOT have
access to the data. Because you see... there is this thing called SEPERATE
DATABASES and environments. Jeez. Lockheed can develop the software
completely without any access to real data. StatsCan would have their own
seperate database which Lockheed would have no access to. It's actually
quite simple. 
Posted 06/07/08 at 8:33 AM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment 

4Cryin Outloud from Canada writes: Jeffrey Hallow from Canada writes: What's
with the jokes about purposely messing up the stats??? That's the stupidest
thing I've ever heard. The census and the statistics are vitally important
to so many aspects of Canada, I can't imagine why anyone would want to mess
with that.

I hate Lockheed too but these people broke they law. They should be fined or
even jailed. If anyone purposely does not fill out census OR if anyone
purposely lies on their census form they should face criminal charges.

Jeffrey, how many people have you talked to about the census form? There
isn't one person I know of that gives correct information, or fills out the
form so that it's legible. You, by all accounts are screwing up the stats. 

Frank Castor from Zephyr, Canada writes: I have entered false info on each
of my last two census, (censi?) (censuses?)....Anytime I'm asked to fill out
info on any government survey, I always enter BS.....Try it out next time,
it feels like a good alternative. 

P S from Toronto, Canada writes: Let me see if I follow everyone's logic
here. War is bad, Lockheed Martin sometimes makes weapons, therefore try to
hurt Lockheed Martin and there will be less weapons and no war!

Brilliant.. 

And good thing that there are no other companies that make competing weapons
or dictators that start wars without buying anything from Lockheed Martin.

Lefties, it must be nice to live in your simple world. 

Simon Proxy from Canada writes: For those who lie on their census you should
know that the info is used to determine how much money and attention to give
your groups. As such information is based on percent of population that is
something lying simply hurts the categories that actually apply to you and
your culture, history, etc.

But hey, if you don't care about the voice and funding that your ethnic,
social, financial, religious, cultural, or other group gets then go ahead an
lie, it harms no one but your ethnic, social, financial, religious,
cultural, or other group.

But the real shame about StatsCan isn't that they outsourced to the best
vendor some work, its that they stopped keeping tabs on foreign takeovers
back during the Mulroney era. If your Stats org stops recording certain
stats because the tally might upset some people then the data is inherently
compromised. It doesn't matter who they get their pencils and code from. 

Karunaratne Jeyatilleke from Ottawa, Canada writes: '2' people protested and
it is NEWS!!! 100,000 Canadian Tamils protested yesterday at the Downsview
park and nothing about it!!!! 

J. Bergin from Canada writes: Good, sent them to jail. The country would
come to a grinding halt if everyone is allowed to decide what laws they will
abide by. Also, these two people should realize, that companies which build
military products also build everyday items, I would bet there is a number
of items that they use everyday that were built by companies with ties to
the defense industry, such as their car, computer and microwave to name just
a few. So unless they are ready to live a cave, their argument is
ridiculous. 

Troubled Youth from Everywhere, Canada writes: Ya the story is about two
Anglos who stood against the system and will be sent to jail and fined, not
the 22 reserves that failed to comply with the law. Bias? Really? Oh Canada.


-----------

I know it may be a little difficult for you to accept, but frankly, your
personal information is boring. Government workers don't care what your
middle name is, how many kids you have or what your address is. I know
everyone likes to think of themselves as being oh-so-important, but you're
not - you're just a drop in the bucket, unlikely to illicit any reaction
close to wanting to sell your information. Get over yourself. 

J P from Vancouver, Canada writes: I have had to include results from
Statscan in the research I do and it pains me because I am an expert in my
area of research and the questions asked by Statscan and census surveys are
the wrong questions, thus generating "wrong" results. Thus, the results are
seriously flawed and actually skewed in the "wrong" direction. So, as
Canadians we are forced by law to participate in flawed research and in so
doing aid government contributions to war profiteers. This bitter irony
increases my pain severely. I am saddened by the fact that I, unlike these
two forward looking individuals, did no research before complying so I would
know about the Lockheed Martin role in this useless exercise. I will most
definitely do so next time and if it is necessary I will join the like
minded Canadians, who have posted here, in doing righteous jail time. 

==========
Email from:
Sandra Finley
Saskatoon SK  
sabest1@sasktel.net