Oh Canada - Our Bought And Sold Out Land

Seems to me that the solution ultimately would be to forget the IDEA of money altogether.

Sounds crazy, right? Consider the period in our history BEFORE the idea of money existed.

I think that we could still manage the health care, education, and other vital entities without the INSTANT GRATIFICATION that we are accustomed to. I think that it is our responsibility to sacrifice the small conveniences we take for granted, and focus our collective energy to the things that are REAL and important to life and well being.

Yes, great points! Money is merely used as a tool of greed and slavery. But if we are to use money as a means of exchange, then at the very least, a responsible government(if it is at all possible) must control the issuance of currency. In such a model, a responsible, altruistic government creates money, instead of the private banking cartel, and the amount of money created should never exceed the total value of goods and services in our country. This way, there is no inflation. Also, when you take away the power of the slavedriver banks to create money, then governments don`t have to borrow it. Therefore, no debt!! Under this model, our country could have all that we need for everyone, including universal public health care, post secondary education, full employment, and public works that are beneficial to Canadian society. And I do believe it is possible to have an incentive system balanced with social and ecological responsibility, and focused more on the things in life that really do matter, such as family, friends, health, mental and spiritual evolution, and the like. The banker corporate fascists, clearly do not want this!

Dave said
"the amount of money created should never exceed the total value of goods and services in our country."
Who sets the value and how do they determine it?
If the country wants to invest in a major infrastructure project which won't be completed for ten years and won't bear fruit for fifteen years, what then?
With the internet we can have virtual government with everybody who wants to be participating.
Inflation is only bad if it is allowed to drive prices higher. If one has consumption controls in place , ie. the more you use the more you pay for it, then we move away from being able to own 10 houses and thirty swimming pools and 40,000 acres of land and so on.

Nameless86 said
"Consider the period in our history BEFORE the idea of money existed."
Things have changed considerably since then, how would you acquire a tank full of gas and 2 bunches of grapes?

Just speculating.

Thank you. And you are right also, this power trip has gone too far. I still find it crazy that there are still people who work all day and DO NOT EAT, while the people NEXT to them smoke 100$ cigars for being 'THE BOSS'.

It is really up to OUR realization and action to make our lives better as we see fit.

Imagine, no SUIT telling us whats in OUR best interest.

I think it is entirely possible to for people to get together and stop this whole mess, BEFORE it takes over our lives COMPLETELY. It's not only our right, but our RESPONSIBILITY

We've lived without money, or rather with worthless money that couldn't buy anything, the real money having been cigarettes, for 3 years after WW2 in Europe.

It was hell on Earth ! It was almost heaven, when we went to England in 1948 and were paid with money we could take and buy something with for our own use and benefit.

And I'm the loudest critic of the present monetary system where imaginary money, created from the air, is taking dictatorial control of the Earth and over humanity.

We need money, but it has to be under strict public control. There are many plans in existence, all over the world, for realistic monetary systems, but are prevented from being implemented by the banks and the global ruling sectors of the multinational corporate mafia.

Ed Deak, Big Lake.

Well, Milton, since the banker-corporate fascists already determine the prices of goods and services artificially, because, really, there`s no true free market, a responsible government that can resist the urges of greed can set prices which are also just made up, yet more reflective of common sense. And a long term project can receive cash infusions in stages, with strict monitoring of spending, to also reduce corruption.

Ed, could you please give us some links to or expand on the details of the "many plans in existence, all over the world, for realistic monetary systems"? I would be interested to have a look see.

Good comments Dave and Nameless86.

Milton, all you have to do is go to google and type in "Alternative monetary theories"

Also "Ralph Borsodi" who came up with one of the most interesting, inflation free system some 100 years ago.

The one thing nobody in their right minds have ever suggested was a deregulated banking, money creation system, which has resulted in the biggest crime wave in history, allowing the multinational corporate mafia to take control of the world's economy and resources with the fraudulent use of imaginary capital, created from the air.

Ed Deak.

Thanks Ed.

I've given up on the current Canadian political parties and have set up a web site for a political party I'd like to get started. The party is not intended to be either "right" or "left" wing.

The site is at http//canadiancitizensparty.ca .

I'd appreciate any comments anyone has concerning the party "beliefs" and suggestions for improved wording, etc. and any comments as to whether the party would offer a distinct alternative to the current federal parties and appeal to Canadians who don't identify themselves as completely "left" or "right" wing.

My thoughts on a democratically controlled and regulated "market" economy will likely not appeal to right-wingers and I imagine my limiting of certain items to Canadian "citizens" resident in Canada might not appeal or seem "fair" to "perfect world" left-wingers.

Of course, everything is up for discussion.

Great discussion.

ConspircyCentral.net is now ConCen.org (private tracker registration required) so the torrent current link posted is now defunct and demonoid is still undergoing maintenance, I'll be re-upping it there if the torrent was lost in the shuffle once they are back up.

ConCen.org also has a great forum and community as well as a mass of torrents, it's worth a look, hope to see you there.

It is available on the following sites though:
http://tracker.concen.org/torrents-details.php?id=9794
http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/1302 ... ab=summary
http://www.mininova.org/tor/2937456
http://documentaries.hexagon.cc/torrent ... VDRip_XVid (pt reg required)

There are 1000s of other sites that picked it up too so it shouldn't be hard to find via a search engine + the video is up on youtube in a playlist at http://www.youtube.com/user/OhNoCanada# ... 016CF39978

.. and of course via the homepage at http://www.ohcanadamovie.com/

Now that is out of the way. Money seems to be the prevalent topic so let's continue. A country can be successful without money but used responsibly and uncorrupted it can help facilitate trade as it was originally designed to. Money is a technology designed to serve the people not to rule them. That being said we have seen the erosion of money and a battle for its control and issuance and, more recently, the blatant manipulation through derivatives, bailouts and the orchestrated crash of the world's reserve currency (The US dollar) to create the economic problems that are evident today. The solution that will no doubt be introduced sooner or later is a world currency centralizing the power of money issuance and, in turn, total domination in a few powerful hands.

A life of serfdom and slavery seems bleak but that is where it is headed if the vast majority of people continue bury their head in the sand and toil at their jobs and 'suck it up' as we are being robbed and enslaved.

The only way this paper money has any power is the fact that we idolize it. We choose to make it our god and put faith in its value to get stuff. If enough people beleive it has value it must be true and that is exactly what makes people go to jobs they don't like and military people murder total strangers. This faith in money can go the other way though. If enough people reject their money and the governments that issue it we suddenly have a new system.

This movie advocates non-participation in the electoral process as democracy has failed and presents a new strategy that has peaked my interest secession. Secession is the act of not supporting the system or the government by creating an alternate form of government on the grassroots level. Saying no to Washington or Ottawa and denying the system itself.

This is a bit simplistic. 'Voting' includes anything relating to the government supported multi-national corporate oligarchy system. It could include buying nike, paying taxes, submitting to a foreclosure etc. but not voting would be a good start since by not participating in the system you can legitimately claim on a personal level that it is not the government you voted for. The idea put forward diverting all of the energy that goes into campaigning for someone to get inside the system to change it to campaigning and then setting up polling stations for support of seceding is an idea that should be acted upon IMO.

A violent resistance would play right into their hands condoning the use of force. Winning hearts and minds to simultaneously create a republican society dropping out of the corporate political system en masse is a valid and more peaceful option. It cuts off the systems true power, the god they call money.

Money controls the private and state sponsored armies. If we were to unanimously deny them that power and fill the void with a people's monetary system all control would be lost, cut off at the knees and the house of cards would fall. Dissent would be far more powerful than force in this instance. Everyone needs to stop accepting, treasuring and holding any value to any central bank controlled currency.

Government is the main vehicle that is used to promote this currency so in not voting and voicing dissent we reject the currency and the system that promotes it by accepting it as taxation and motivation for action. By turning off the TV we turn away from the powers that seek to control our mind and by turning to our neighbors we find the unity which is the true strength to combat this tyranny.

Protect your home, protect your family and community by any means but armed revolt leads to massacre especially in this age of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons. Revolt of this kind could ultimately lead to our self destruction. The idea of promoting violence turns potential supporters and allies into fodder and you can't win the heart and mind of a dead body.

If a war is declared and no one shows up it is not a war. The same holds true to the idea of the currency and government. If no one placed any value in it it would cease to exist.

To summarize:
1) Kill your television, protect the internet - the truth is out there let's keep it that way
2) Spread the truth especially to the police, leaders and military
3) Careful who you 'vote' for with your dollars
4) Violence begets violence (read Ghandi for tips on peaceful revolution)
5) Renew the democratic republic via secession or a mass election of independents and take your country back while it is still a country.
6a) Take back your stuff (resources, land and homes) that was stolen from you and prosecute the culprits with your law or forgive them, it's our choice. Create a banking system that doesn't advocate usury, fractional reserve banking and stay vigilant as to the issuance of currency. Commodity backed dollars are risky though as the gold market has been cornered and manipulated in the past.
6b) Jacques Fresco has some good ideas on the redesign of society through his venus project ideology and eliminate money and law - maybe a new society could incorporate some of his ideas after careful consideration - I see some unaddressed problems with human nature in the plan personally.

The torrent is still working, it is still being downloaded by folks from my client.
Good post FastTadpole and welcome to Vive. I will have more to say about your post when I get a chance.

Although I appreciate this movie and what it's trying to achieve, I need to set the record straight on some of it's facts:

- Banks lend you "false" money while you pay them back with "real" money: FALSE! The money the banks lend you is very real, and it comes from depositors of the bank. In fact you are borrowing money from the savings of other hard-working people, so it is very real, hard-earned money. The bank acts only as a facilitator between depositors and lenders, and it makes profit because it charges a higher interest rates from borrowers than on it gives to depositors.

- The Banks can "create money": TRUE, BUT this is not the same as issuing money. Only the government-owned Bank of Canada can issue money, which means to make money appear how of thin air. Banks can only leverage money from their depositors and shareholders, by lending it to other customers. This in effect multiplies the money in circulation, because the depositor still officially owns the money in is account, while it has in reality been lended to somebody else. This is what is called "creating money", and this works as long as the depositors do not ask for their money all at the same time. This can occur when people lose faith in a bank, and it is called a bank run. When Paul Martin says in the movie that the Canadian banking system is not fragile, he means bank runs are unlikely to happen in Canada. And on that point, we must give him credit: the Canadian banking system is the most stable in the world, that is a fact. By the way, money deposited in a bank in Canada is insured by the government, so that even if a bank would get insolvant, depositors would not loose a penny. Of course if all banks failed simultaneously, that would be a different story...

- Most of the government debts is owned by banks: TRUE, BUT...! Most of the debt is financed by treasury bonds, which are bought by individual investors, as well as, yes, banks. But the money from which bank invest in bonds comes from individual depositors in the first place. The banks give a modest interest to depositors, and hope to receive a higher interest from treasury bonds. So why don't people put their money directly in bonds if they yield higher interest? Well, some people do it, but not all, because bonds cannot be exchanged for cash anytime we want, we must wait for them to mature, which can take many years. So by putting money in the bank instead, we give up some interest value but we gain on liquidity.

By the way, for those of you who are disgusted by bank practices, know that in Canada their are alternatives, such as Credit Unions, called Caisses Populaires in french. These work the same as banks, except that they are non-profit organisms, and their are no shareholders to suck up the profit. Any "profit" they make is partially given back to the customers who paid interest on loans, and the rest is given to charity and community groups. I would personnaly recommend to put your money in these types of credit unions rather than in banks!

Actually we have a fractional reserve system and, if you believe Paul Martin, the banks are only allowed to lend out ten times the amount they have to keep in reserve.

taken from a debt ode at




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