Right To Remain Silent Not A Given, Court Says

Posted on Sunday, November 04 at 12:51 by Diogenes
"What the common law recognizes is the individual's right to remain silent," said Justice Louise Charron, who wrote the majority decision. "This does not mean, however, that a person has the right not to be spoken to by state authorities." William Trudell, chair of the Canadian Council of Criminal Defence Lawyers, calls the ruling "an extraordinary and regressive decision for a Canadian court." The court was sharply divided over an appeal by Jagrup Singh, who asserted his wish to remain silent no fewer than 18 times while under interrogation by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in 2002 in connection with a shooting that killed an innocent bystander at a bar in Surrey, B.C. His questioner, Cpl. David Attew, admitted his objective was to get a confession "no matter what." Singh eventually admitted being in the bar and identified himself in a photograph, incriminating revelations in a case where no forensic evidence linked him to the crime. He was convicted of murder in 2003. Singh argued his statements were obtained in violation of his right to silence under Section 7 of the Charter and asked the court to adopt a rule that would require police, unless they have a signed waiver, to refrain from questioning any person who invokes that right. But imposing such a rigid requirement would ignore the state's important interest in solving crime and goes well beyond provisions in the Charter and common law that protect a person's freedom to choose whether to speak with police, Charron said. "One can readily appreciate that the police could hardly investigate crime without putting questions to persons from whom it is thought that useful information can be obtained," she wrote on behalf of Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin and Justices Michel Bastarache, Marie Deschamps and Marshall Rothstein. But in a dissenting opinion, Justice Morris Fish accused the majority of treating constitutional rights as "constitutional placebos." There's simply no evidence that respecting the rights of detained persons – or the Miranda rule, in place for more than 40 years – has paralyzed police investigations on either side of the border, he said. "The question on this appeal is whether `no' means `yes,' where a police interrogator refuses to take `no' for an answer from a detainee under his total control," Fish said on behalf of a minority that included Justices Ian Binnie, Louis LeBel and Rosalie Abella. "I much prefer a system of justice that permits the effective exercise by detainees of the constitutional and procedural rights guaranteed to them by the law of the land," Fish wrote. "The right to silence, like the right to counsel, is in my view a constitutional promise that must be kept." What's "particularly disturbing," said Fish, is that Attew "subtly but unmistakably" urged Singh to forsake his lawyer's advice. "`No' – especially after legal advice – must mean `no,'" said Trudell, who suggested the decision could well usher in an era of "wrongful admissions," in which police find it easier to get questionable evidence, obtained under duress, placed before a judge. http://www.thestar.com/News/article/272929

Note: http://www.thestar.com/...

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  1. Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:28 pm
    The globe and mail has an editorial on the topic worth the read fot hose withh access


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    "When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

    William Blake

  2. Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:40 am
    So now, if you refuse to give an interrogator the answers they seek, then what? We all know where this is headed.

  3. Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:13 pm
    The title of the article is misleading.

    The court upheld the right to remain silent. What it did say was Police also have the right to keep asking you questions. You still don't have to answer.

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    The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.

  4. Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:36 pm
    And you can be badgered relentlessly
    when rightly theright needn't be invoked more that once to end the questions from the police
    this is a slippery slope

    The Yanks have it right
    our supreme court does not
    no man should have to answer in a way that satisfied the third degree
    what next torture?
    to extract the desired answer
    "Ve Haf Vsys Off Makink you talk" ? Shheeesh

    ---
    "When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

    William Blake

  5. Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:47 pm
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    The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.

  6. Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:12 pm
    Well that about sez it all Doc hehehehe

    wanna tryit with words this time LOL

    ---
    "When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

    William Blake

  7. Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:52 pm
    We still have certain rights. To legal representation, to remain silent, to not have to endure unusual or cruel punishment . . . but questioning by police is none of those according to the SCoC. They have the right to pursue leads, but you don't have to help them do it.

    To retain your right of silence; All you have to do is say nothing. I'm not saying it would be easy in the face of incessant badgering, but I've been married. It's not all that tough. And they can only hold you 24 hours, unlike marriage.

    Nothing has really changed by this decision.

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    The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.

  8. Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:54 pm
    "And you can be badgered relentlessly when rightly the right needn't be invoked more that once to end the questions from the police this is a slippery slope"

    One must consider what kind of drugs these so-called Judges are on when they made this decision. What else comes to mind when the police keep on questioning their victim for all of eternity? Eventually you'll crack under the strain of torture and offer up whatever the police want to hear. This is just another form of "torture lite", and it's as clear as day.

  9. Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:01 pm
    "And they can only hold you 24 hours, unlike marriage."

    Yeah it'll be a piece of cake, with no food or water, no access to a washroom, and no rest at all with the police relentlessly badgering you in rotating shifts for 24 hours straight. We're on the edge that's for sure, and it's clear that if the trend continues soon "torture lite" will be legalized as it already is for those imprisoned under the so-called "security certificate" system.

  10. Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:08 pm
    You still have the right not to be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. That invalidates any evidence they might collect.

    Plus, they get pretty pissed off when you crap on the table.

    And as we've discussed before, anyone held on a 'security certificate' is free to walk out the door at anytime.

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    The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.

  11. Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:43 am
    Dr Caleb, with all due respect the truth of the matter is the police and law courts or no respecters of rights.
    Points of law can be and have bee argued
    That cannot be ignored and yet are it is after all the just-us system
    My friend Karl Eisenbrenner had his pleading re written by a judge, Jack Cram another friend was held incommunicado in a psych ward


    ---
    "When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

    William Blake

  12. Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:56 am
    google the Jacj Cram story i tried to put the link here but the spam detector stopped me
    If you or anyone actually believe that the system of justice is how we are lead to believe it I have a bridge being build across the Okanogan Lake you might want to buy shares in



    In the final analysis the so called right have all the substance of a puff of smoke
    And that Dear friends is fact
    Violated “right” in reality have little if any chance of recourse and remedy. And we the public are derelict in our duty by allowing these flagrant and all to frequent violations of British Common Law rights
    Check this out
    continued



    ---
    "When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."

    William Blake

  13. Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:14 am
    oops that was Jack Cram<br />
    here is the lonang site <br />
    <a href="http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/blackstone/">http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/blackstone/</a> <p>---<br>"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do."<br />
    <br />
    William Blake<br />
    <br />

  14. Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:00 pm
    "Dr Caleb, with all due respect the truth of the matter is the police and law courts or no respecters of rights."

    I agree. I don't count on anyone to protect my rights and property other than myself. Police may be useful for investigating crime, but that's about all.

    "If you or anyone actually believe that the system of justice is how we are lead to believe it I have a bridge being build across the Okanogan Lake you might want to buy shares in"

    No, 'Justice System' is like 'Military Intelligence'. Given that young men can beat someone to death intentionally, and get 6 months house arrest, I expect little of the revolving door that is the court system. I'm an old testament, "Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth" man myself. The Justice system has shown it is incapable of actual 'Justice', since it insists that everyone is capable of remorse, and change. Many are, but not everyone is.

    Take a case in Edmonton, where a bunch of young men and women 'kidnapped' a 13 year old girl, took her to a remote location, raped and beat and killed her in a most brutal fashion. These 'people' hunted another human being, yet the justice system allows (some of) them to be considered 'young offenders' incapable of adult thought. I really don't see how one can even consider that hunting another human, then clubbing her to death with golf clubs, hammers and wrenches could be the act of a child who didn't know better.

    "Violated “right” in reality have little if any chance of recourse and remedy. "

    Agreed. Which is why I would stay silent, crap on the table and pee in the corner. My military training includes an air jumps, followed by 30km hikes in full gear (100 pound pack)4 times in 24 hours, for 3 days. My body and mind can take far more than they can dish out in 24 hours. A stern talking to and some sleeplessness wouldn't even amuse me.

    I take violation of my rights very seriously. Assuming I'm ever in a position to have to endure Gestapo tactics, I will repeat only "Vengeance is a dish best served cold."

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    The preceding comment deals with mature subject matter, however immaturely presented. Viewer discretion is advised.



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