Folks, He's Clearly A Hoax

"But how do we know there were six million? Did anyone count them? Perhaps it was only three million, or one million, or 600,000. Why do people always get so upset when we suggest it might have been 600,000, or 60,000 or 6,000? What are they hiding? Hmmm?"

Did he say upset? Upset! How about locked up in a prison cell for several years? How about enacting authoritarian laws against open dialog? How about smear campaigns and blacklists against anyone with dissenting views? How about enforcing through force of authoritarian law an official version of history (dogma)?

I think these measures indicate something that's a little more serious than "always getting so upset".

Yes indeed, hmmm?

Despite all the video evidence, perhaps no one will believe he existed in 60 years.

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Yeah, but will anyone be locked up for suggesting such a silly thing?

Yes they did - the nazis were particularily usefull at the nuremberg war crimes trail in that they had documented not only the amounts gassed but as well those that were shot, hung, tortured and even experimented upon!!!!!!! There is no doubt to this the evidence is isin plain sight for all to see as well there is no controversy in this area to even raise a doubt only shows ignorance or a weird form of denial

There's nothing wrong with suggesting someone like John Titor never existed.

Suggesting the Beothunks never existed will get you laughed at. I doubt ether would get you arrested.

Asking about the number of people that died in a particular circumstance just to piss people off is rather childish.

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"Asking about the number of people that died in a particular circumstance just to piss people off is rather childish."

Childish indeed, however is there a need to lock up these people? More to the point, is there a need to lock up people who question the numbers legitimately in an effort to determine if the numbers are correct or not?

Without a doubt, we know that governments lie (Saddam's WMD, 9/11, etc), and we know that the media of the day has a vested interest in promoting historical lies.

What about the lies of 60 years past? We know that during a time of war, there's always plenty of lies being passed around at an official level. So why are people being locked up when they legitimately wonder out loud what really happened with this one specific event in history?

The documented number of Jews that died of all causes in German controlled territory is 271,000 or so.

This from the achieves the Germans were "forced" by the ex allies to open for research last year.

This was done against the strong objections of the Germans who knew what the actual figure was.

Are the Jews going to return the 200,000,000 DM the Jews lied their way to?????

Anybody honest who can count knows that the 6M is a colossal fabrication by people who "wish to be part of history". Paraphrase from Israeli Supreme Court when it threw out all eye-witness testimony leading to the conviction of "Ivan the Terrible". His death sentence was overturned by the Israeli Supreme Court. Hence its comments on the testimony.

Not even Jews trust the words of other Jews!

H.F. Wolff

"Not even Jews trust the words of other Jews!"

A more general and accurate way of stating this, is to not trust the word of anyone who stands to profit from their testimony.

The state of Israel was justified through the "official" accounting of the atrocities committed against the Jewish people during WWII. For decades prior to WWII, Zionists were dreaming of forming their own state. They even tried the same Holocaust route during WWI (that's "one" not "two"), yet it never took hold, and few people know about the effort.

"there is no controversy in this area"

Even when the official accounting of the Holocaust is taken at face value, there's still plenty of controversy of a political nature to fill volumes.

The Holocaust is used as an excuse to justify for a wide variety of behaviors and policies that should not only be questioned, but also vigorously opposed.

"....Are the Jews going to return the 200,000,000 DM the Jews lied their way to?????...."

OOOps, my bad; talk about counting!:-)

The above figure is 3 orders of magnitude too low, ie. it states 200 Million Deutsch marks.

It should read 200 Billion Deutsch marks, a figure 1000 times larger.

Now you know why there are so many Jewish millionaires and billionaires around.

H.F. Wolff

High-altitude experiments. March - August 1942. Conducted for the German air force to investigate the effect of high-altitude flying; experiments were conducted at the Dachau camp using a low-pressure chamber. Charged against Becker-Freyseng, K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Gebhardt, Handloser, Mrugowsky, Poppendick, Romberg, Ruff, Schroeder, Sievers, and Weltz. Charges against K. Brandt, Handloser, Mrugowsky, and Poppendick were withdrawn. R. Brandt and Sievers were convicted.

Freezing experiments. August 1942 - May 1943. Conducted primarily for the German air force to investigate treatments for persons who had been severely chilled, using prisoners at the Dachau camp. Charged against Becker-Freyseng, K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Gebhardt, Handloser, Mrugowsky, Poppendick, Schroeder, Sievers, and Weltz. Becker-Freyseng, K. Brandt, Gebhardt, Mrugowsky, Poppendick, and Weltz were acquitted; R. Brandt, Handloser, Schroeder, and Sievers were convicted.

Malaria experiments. February 1942 - April 1945. Conducted to test immunization for and treatment of malaria; experiments were conducted on more than 1000 prisoners at Dachau. Charged against Blome, K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Gebhardt, Handloser, Mrugowsky, Poppendick, Rostock, and Sievers. (Evidence was also presented against Rose, but no judgment was reached.) No judgment was made concerning Mrugowsky. Blome, K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Gebhardt, Handloser, Poppendick, and Rostock were acquitted; Sievers was convicted.

Mustard ("lost") gas experiments. September 1939 - April 1945. Conducted for the benefit of the German armed forces to investigate treatment of injuries caused by Lost (mustard) gas; experiments were conducted at Sachsenhausen, Natzweiler, and other camps. Charged against Blome, K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Gebhardt, Handloser, Rostock, and Sievers. Blome, Gebhardt, Handloser, and Rostock were acquitted; K. Brandt, R. Brandt, and Sievers were convicted.

Sulfanilamide experiments. July 1942 - September 1943. Conducted for the benefit of the German armed forces to test the effectiveness of sulfanilamide and other drugs as treatments for infected wounds; experiments were conducted at Ravensbrueck. Charged against Becker-Freyseng, Blome, K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Fischer, Gebhardt, Genzken, Handloser, Mrugowsky, Oberheuser, Poppendick, Rostock, and Schroeder. Charges against Becker-Freyseng, Blome, and Schroeder were withdrawn. No judgment was reached concerning R. Brandt. Genzken, Poppendick, and Rostock were acquitted; K. Brandt, Fischer, Gebhardt, Handloser, Mrugowsky, and Oberheuser were convicted.

Bone, muscle, and nerve regeneration, and bone transplant experiments. September 1942 - December 1943. Conducted for benefit of German armed forces, using Polish inmates at the Ravensbrueck camp. Charged against K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Fischer, Gebhardt, Handloser, Oberheuser, and Rostock. Charge against R. Brandt withdrawn. K. Brandt, Handloser, and Rostock were acquitted; Fischer, Gebhardt, and Oberheuser were convicted.

Seawater experiments. July - September 1944. Conducted for the German air force and navy to test methods of making seawater drinkable; experiments were conducted at Dachau. Charged against Becker-Freyseng, Beiglboeck, K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Gebhardt, Handloser, Mrugowsky, Poppendick, Rostock, Schaefer, Schroeder, and Sievers. The charge against Mrugowsky was withdrawn. K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Handloser, Poppendick, Rostock, and Schaefer were acquitted; Becker-Freyseng, Beiglboeck, Gebhardt, Schroeder, and Sievers were convicted.

Epidemic jaundice experiments. June 1943 - January 1945. Conducted for the benefit of the German armed forces to investigate causes of and inoculations against epidemic jaundice; experiments were conducted on Polish prisoners at Sachsenhausen and Natzweiler camps. Charged against Becker-Freyseng, K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Gebhardt, Handloser, Mrugowsky, Poppendick, Rose, Rostock, Schroeder, and Sievers. Charges against Becker-Freyseng, Rose, and Sievers were withdrawn. R. Brandt, Gebhardt, Handloser, Mrugowsky, Poppendick, Rostock, and Schroeder were acquitted; K. Brandt was convicted.

Typhus ("spotted fever") and other vaccine experiments. December 1941 - February 1945. Conducted for the benefit of the German armed forces to test the effectiveness of vaccines against typhus, smallpox, cholera, and other diseases; experiments were conducted at Buchenwald and Natzweiler. Charged against Becker-Freyseng, K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Gebhardt, Genzken, Handloser, Hoven, Mrugowsky, Poppendick, Rose, Rostock, Schroeder, and Sievers. Becker-Freyseng, K. Brandt, Gebhardt, Poppendick, and Rostock were acquitted; R. Brandt, Genzken, Handloser, Hoven, Mrugowsky, Rose, Schroeder, and Sievers were convicted.

Poison experiments. December 1943 and September - October 1944. Conducted to investigate the effect of various poisons, including poison in food and poisoned bullets; experiments were conducted at Buchenwald (food) and Sachsenhausen (bullets). Charged against Gebhardt, Genzken, Mrugowsky, and Poppendick. Gebhardt, Genzken, and Poppendick were acquitted; Mrugowsky was convicted.
Incendiary bomb experiments. November 1943 - January 1944. Conducted to test pharmaceutical treatments for phosphorus burns; experiments were conducted at Buchenwald, involving the infliction of burns by materials from incendiary bombs. Charged against Gebhardt, Genzken, Mrugowsky, and Poppendick. All were acquitted.
Sterilization experiments. March 1941 - January 1945. Conducted to develop methods of rapid, large scale sterilization in order to ensure the eventual elimination of "enemy" populations while keeping captive workers as a labor force during the war. Experiments were planned and/or conducted at Auschwitz, Ravensbrueck, and elsewhere employing drugs, x-rays, and surgery. Charged against Brack, K. Brandt, R. Brandt, Gebhardt, Mrugowsky, Oberheuser, Pokorny, and Poppendick. The charges against Mrugowsky and Oberheuser were withdrawn. K. Brandt, Pokorny, and Poppendick were acquitted; Brack, R. Brandt, and Gebhardt were convicted.

Skeleton collection. June 1943 - September 1944. Conducted to complete a skeleton collection for an anatomical research project at the Reich University of Strasbourg; one hundred twelve Jews at Auschwitz were killed for the purpose. Charged against R. Brandt and Sievers; both were convicted.

Tubercular Polish nationals. May 1942 - January 1944. Polish nationals alleged to have incurable tuberculosis were imprisoned or killed on the pretext of protecting the health of Germans in Poland. Charged against Blome and R. Brandt; both were acquitted.

Euthanasia. September 1939 - April 1945. Involved the secret killing of the aged, insane, incurably ill, deformed children, and others, beginning at asylums in Germany and later in the camps and occupied territories. Charged against Blome, Brack, K. Brandt, and Hoven. Blome was acquitted; Brack, K. Brandt, and Hoven were convicted.
Other charges:

Phenol (gas oedema) experiments. 1942 - 1944. Conducted to investigate whether levels of phenol in gas oedema serum caused fatalities among wounded soldiers; experiments were conducted on prisoners at Buchenwald. Charged against Handloser, Hoven, and Mrugowsky. Handloser was acquitted; Hoven and Mrugowsky were convicted.

Phlegmon experiments. 1942. Conducted to test treatments for sepsis and related diseases, in coordination with sulfanilamide experiments at Ravensbrueck; experiments were conducted at Dachau and Auschwitz. Charged against Fischer, Oberheuser, and Poppendick; all were acquitted.
Polygal experiments. 1943 - 1944. Conducted to test the effectiveness of polygal, a blood coagulant, for the treatment of wounds. Charged against Blome, Handloser, Poppendick, and Sievers. Blome, Handloser, and Poppendick were acquitted; Sievers was convicted.
Planning, organization, and administration (of 1-15 above)
Conspiracy: Count 1.
Membership: Count 4.
List of 1-15 taken from Indictment in Trials of War Criminals; 16-18 charged during trial although not specified in indictment.

As I said all information has been vetted and is on record as well as in immaculate order thoroughly having been evaluated hence there is no controversy except for those who are by definition ignorant - as they choose to ignore the evidence in front of them

Psy,

From your laundry list above you only have 5,999,950 or so bodies to go.

As an aside, ALL military in ALL western countries have conducted experiments on unwilling/unwitting soldiers and civilians.

Perhaps the Nazis thought more of their nationals and reserved their experiments for convicted murderers, saboteurs, etc. etc.

When are you and your tribe going to return the 200 Billion to the rightful owners, such as the people who earned it?

H.F. Wolff

"So why are people being locked up when they legitimately wonder out loud what really happened with this one specific event in history?"

We've discussed this before. I don't think people who legitimately question should be. But telling those from people who want to cast doubt based on outdated notions of the 'superiority of birthright' is very difficult.

The easy way to tell, for me, is exactly what this article hints at. If there is overwhelming proof it happened, then those who question if it happened might be doing so from some other motive. Man on the Moon or The Holocaust or the Iranian PM addressing the U.N.. It doesn't matter the subject, I believe those who question the obvious have something else they are trying to 'hint' at.

(If anyone wonders why Vive is timing out so much, it's probably some spammer running scripts against the submission queue again. Over 20 new 'articles' have appeared in the last 1/2 hour. No doubt promising me increased male performance.)

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"As I said all information has been vetted and is on record as well as in immaculate order thoroughly having been evaluated hence there is no controversy except for those who are by definition ignorant - as they choose to ignore the evidence in front of them" <br><br> I'd rather be an ignorant fool than a blind follower. <br><br> Sure there's lots of evidence, but is the evidence valid? We all have recently witnessed how governments and the controlled press pathologically lie to us. For example, not so long ago there was irrefutable evidence proving beyond a shadow of doubt that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction - proof that was later shown to have been intentionally fabricated. <br><br> You've brought up the Nuremberg trials as being beyond reproach, and you've insinuated that only the ignorant would question the documentation that was compiled by the trial. <br><br> Since I am incurably ignorant, I cannot help but wonder just how fair and impartial the Nuremberg trials actually were. <br><br> <a href="http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p167_Webera.html">The Nuremberg Trials and the Holocaust</a> <br><br> I can imagine being there 60 years ago, and it is very difficult for me to imagine that the Nuremberg trials were anything but what I would expect to see - a farcical event used only to manufacture political consent for the victors of a brutal war. <br><br> Many people were murdered on all fronts, and as far as I'm concerned, those responsible for the killings should *all* have been hung, yet predictably that's not what happened.