Fixed Elections (Bill C-16) And The NDP

Posted on Friday, October 06 at 08:17 by BC Mary
Hi Rita, We are supporting Bill C-16. I have included the speech on Second Reading from Joe Comartin for some explanation of why the NDP is supporting the bill. This was one requirement that Ed Broadbent outlined in his ethics package. You can find it at www.ndp.ca/page/1677. One issue the CAP argument seemed to miss was that minority governments can fall regardless of the fixed election date - the legislation does not mean that the Conservatives can remain in power until 2009. However, it will prevent majority governments from choosing to go to the polls early - as Jean Chrétien did twice - to take advantage of positive public opinion. Here is the speech as heard in the House of Commons: Mr. Joe Comartin (Windsor—Tecumseh, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to Bill C-16 and to signal, as I did earlier this afternoon, that the NDP would be supporting this legislation. We are looking forward to getting it into committee for further discussion and perhaps amendments. In essence, the proposition being put before this House right now is one that we have supported for a good number of years. In the 2004-06 Parliament our former member, Ed Broadbent, was a strong proponent of this and encouraged the government of the day to press forward with it, to no avail. We are pleased to see that the government has in fact moved on the issue. To a great extent this bill is about combating the cynicism that is in the electorate. We can say it makes sense for our electorate to know that there would be a fixed date for an election every four years and prepare for it knowing in advance when voting would take place. However, what is more important, and I do not want to downplay the significance of that certainty of a fixed date, is that if this bill passes it would be an opportunity for this House, for Parliament, to say to the citizens of Canada right across the country that we are no longer going to have their decision making process manipulated by the government in power. That has been very much the history of parliaments of all stripes in this House. A parliament, a government of the day, will say this is to its advantage to go now even though it is nowhere near the generally accepted four, four and a half year mandate that we should stay and work and do what is our responsibility to the country. The government says, no, this is to our advantage right now, because of this issue, it is popular in the country, it is our issue and so we are going to go to the electorate. We saw that, as we heard from some of the other speakers today, in the last number of years happening repeatedly, where we had elections at three and three and a half year intervals, and that suffers. If nothing else, if we want to look at it from a non-democratic standpoint and simply from a financial standpoint, it means we have more elections, and those cost money, in the range of $200 million, each time we go to the electorate. More importantly, the essential issue is that we say to the people of Canada that we are no longer going to manipulate the electoral date in order for it to be of advantage to the government in power of the day. One of the side effects of that, because of the certainty of the date which would allow people to know in advance when the vote would be and to prepare for it, is that it would increase, I believe, the number of people who would vote because they would not feel this negative cynicism toward all parties and all politicians from this perspective. They would say that they knew this election was coming at this point, it is part of our law, they are ready for it, they are going to participate in it, they are prepared for it, and they have not been forced to go to the polls only because of an opportune time for the government in power. For that reason the bill is important. It is one that we should all be supporting. I think we have heard today from the various parties that they all intend to in fact support this approach. I suppose the comment one has to make is that it is too late. We should have done this a long time ago, but in fact we are now finally now getting to it. One of the concerns that we do have of this legislation is with regard to the situation in a minority government because of course this law would have no effect if the past practice continues. The past practice is, as often as not in a minority government situation, that the government comes down not so much because of a lack of confidence generally in the government but on a specific issue. We are proposing for consideration in this minority government situation, and we will be raising it at committee when it gets there, to constrain the ability of the government to intentionally bring itself down by creating a false issue, by setting up an issue that all three of the opposition parties with the majority of seats in the House would vote against. That has happened and there certainly has been speculation that the government may be planning on doing that some time in the spring of this session. In order to avoid that kind of cynicism, there are alternatives. I put this to the government House leader today. He, of course, was dismissive of it in the sense that it would usurp the power of Parliament and cross over into conflict with our courts. What I suggested to him was that we limit the number of issues that can be confidence motions, so that a government cannot unilaterally, as it can now, say an item is a confidence motion and if we do not vote with it the government, it goes down and we have an election. That again is a manipulative tool that governments in the past have used. From a democracy standpoint there is no reason to have that in our system. We could, I believe, with some discussions, debate and negotiations come to a conclusion and incorporate that into legislation as to what is a permissible motion of confidence and exclude all others. One of the answers I received from the government House leader was that we cannot do it because we would end up being challenged in the courts. That is not necessarily the consequence. The decision as to whether a motion is one of confidence or not, once we have set the criteria, could be determined, first by your Chair, Mr. Speaker. That is one alternative, or it could be by a vote in the House. There are other alternatives. Albeit, and I am not going to advocate it, another alternative is to allow the Governor General to make that decision. Being an unelected position and being a strong democrat, I am not prepared to turn the power over to that office, but I do believe it would fall within the perspective, control and authority, and jurisdiction of either the House or of the Speaker of the House at the time, and so there are alternatives. Going back again to why we are supporting the bill, both from a democratic standpoint but more to deal with cynicism within the electorate, it would be another way of saying to the electorate, even in the minority government situation, that they would not be forced to go to the polls, that we would be able to continue the government and continue on the issues that are confronting the country without going to the electorate. We would not allow the government of the day to simply say something is a confidence motion, that if we do not vote with it we would have an election. There are alternatives. It is an alternative that I believe would deal very much with the other part of the cynicism when elections are called in this country. I want to say that there are clear reasons why this will be effective and I want to address one of the negatives at the same time as seeing it as a positive. I believe that by allowing for fixed election dates we actually would reduce the amount of partisan electioneering that goes on between elections. We would reduce it to that latter period of time, to the last six months. What happens now, and I think we are being less than honest with the electorate when we stand in the House and say that we are going to be in a constant election mode with the implication being that we are not right now and we are not even in a majority government situation. I have been in both. Anybody who has been here knows whether one is in a majority government situation or a minority government situation, as it stands right now, electioneering goes on because we do not know, and I was very glad to hear my colleague from the Bloc making this point, when the plug will be pulled. Right now we are into that situation and in fact we do partisan electioneering on a constant basis. Having fixed dates, I believe and would argue strongly, would reduce the amount of partisanship that goes on between elections and restrict it to the latter period of time of, as I say, six months to a year before the campaign starts. The argument is that it is somehow going to increase the amount of politicking that goes on, being meant in a negative tone, the result of which will in fact be just the opposite. With regard to the other positives here, again it is a situation where because one knows what one is confronted with in terms of a date, the recruitment of candidates by all parties and the recruitment of volunteers by all parties will be enhanced when we know the dates that we are working toward as far as the election date itself. The bottom line is, and I will conclude with this, if we proceed with the legislation as proposed, it is definitely a step forward but it is not enough. I believe we should strongly look extensively at the issue of how we trigger elections in a minority government situation around confidence votes and amend this legislation to include criteria as to how the situation would be dealt with then. That would go to finalizing that cynicism that the electorate feels toward all politicians about the way we manipulate election dates in this country. [Proofreader's note: this article was edited for spelling and typos on October 6, 2006]

Note: www.ndp.ca/page/1677

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  1. by avatar Jacob
    Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:03 pm
    What utter nonsense! Fixed election days will only increase the cynicism that already exists today, and the Honourable Member for Windsor-Tecumseh does not realize that his scare tactics about "minority governments" will all go away with MMP (proportional representation).

    This Bill C-16 is an all-party trick to make real electoral reform (which is sooooo needed) an impossibility. Because the powers that be will always say: "Next time" - which means "After the next election" - which means "Never".

  2. Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:54 am
    was there doubt about CWC's claim?
    well it has now been dis-spelled, i hope

    ---
    Diogenes said:
    "I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."

  3. by Deacon
    Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:04 pm
    I'm sorry, but when I first saw the headline my first impression was to take "fixed elections" as meaning "rigged elections".

    In that mindset, a "fixed election day" is simply the day that the rigged election is held.

    Guess maybe I'm even more cynical than I thought...



    ---
    "and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

    "The Weapon" - Rush

  4. Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:38 pm
    What I suggested to him was that we limit the number of issues that can be confidence motions, so that a government cannot unilaterally, as it can now, say an item is a confidence motion and if we do not vote with it the government, it goes down and we have an election.<<

    This is a tactic that Harper has implemented already. "You are with him or against him". It's no longer "laws" passed or not passed during normal debate but a condition causing an election for another/same government. We are being told that "this is the way it's going to be" and if we don't like it, we go back to the voting booth. Harper knew that Canadians already were tired of having early elections and wouldn't favour yet another one so soon. He also knew the opposition was not yet ready.
    Four years to make it or break it. The last year of that term will be dedicated to stunting. A lot of damege can be done in the first three years, leaving only one year to convince the public otherwise. If this act is passed, I can vision Harper adding the four years to his term already served. The damage already done by him is irreversible. Three more years and Harper will be talking from the Whitehouse from an all "New Government".


    ---
    Expect little from life and get more from it.

  5. Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:57 pm
    For the one-eyed monsters:

    The Hill Times, October 2nd, 2006
    LEGISLATIVE PROCESS
    By Bea Vongdouangchanh

    Fixed elections? More like 'flexible fixed,' MPs say

    Government House Leader Rob Nicholson says Tories are governing on a
    'month-to-month basis'

    The Fixed Date Election Bill, C-16, should really be called the "Flexible
    Fixed Election Bill," say government and opposition MPs because a
    government can and will still be defeated earlier than every four years,
    the Governor General will still have the authority to call an election on
    the advice of the Prime Minister or to not call an election, and the set
    date under the upcoming law can change if the third Monday in October
    conflicts with a cultural or religious holiday.

    "I don't think this should be called fixed election dates, it's flexible fixed
    election dates," said NDP MP Paul Dewar (Ottawa Centre, Ont.) last
    Tuesday at the Procedure and House Affairs Committee meeting, which
    is studying the bill. "I think that's important actually for those supporting
    this that we say that because it confuses the electorate out there. They
    think, 'Oh, no matter what, we'll have these fixed dates and they'll
    undermine the idea of the minority Parliament.'"

    Bill C-16 states that the next election date will be on Oct. 19, 2009, and
    will occur every four years on the third Monday of October. The first
    clause of the bill, however, states that "Nothing in this section affects the
    powers of the Governor General, including the power to dissolve
    Parliament at the Governor General's discretion."

    Because of this, critics say the bill is not true electoral reform, but the
    government argues it's a step in the right direction and that Canada's
    Parliamentary system means that fixed election dates will be indeed
    flexible.

    "It's an incremental change and an improvement in our particular system
    and you're quite correct, the individual who wrote that article, Mr.
    Milner, said that what we have is a flexible fixed date system,"
    said Government House Leader Rob Nicholson (Niagara Falls, Ont.), who
    testified before the committee last week with Kathy O'Hara, deputy
    secretary to the Cabinet, machinery of government; Warren Newman,
    Justice's general counsel for the Constitution and administrative law; and
    Dan McDougall, director of operations, legislative and House planning in
    the Privy Council Office. "It's a little more complicated with the British
    Parliamentary system to actually fix a date for an election. It's a little
    easier and many examples were given to me by either Latvia or Mexico
    or the United States. Those are slightly different systems that don't have
    a confidence convention built into them as we do, and so ours is a
    flexible but fixed date at the same time."

    The bill allows for a flexible date because polling day could "conflict with
    a day of cultural or religious significance or a provincial or municipal
    election." In this case, the Chief Electoral Officer would have the
    authority to recommend an alternative day, either Tuesday of the same
    week or the following Monday, provided those days do not conflict with
    any sort of holiday or jurisdictional election.

    The third week of October does however coincide with Citizenship Week,
    which Mr. Nicholson said he and the Conservative government are proud
    of. " a time when we celebrate what it means to be a citizen of
    Canada. It is fitting then that the general election date will be set for the
    third Monday in October, a most fitting and functional expression of our
    citizenship."

    Liberal MP Marcel Proulx (Hull-Aylmer, Que.), who sits on the Procedure
    and House Affairs Committee, asked Mr. Nicholson if there was any
    discussion on implementing mechanisms into the bill to prevent the
    Prime Minister from seeking a dissolution of Parliament from the
    Governor General.

    "I can understand that under a minority government, the Governor
    General could be very hesitant, but under a majority government, if that
    majority government decided to voluntarily arrange for a defeat, I think
    it would be very difficult for the governor general to say no to an
    election seeing that it's a majority government," Mr. Proulx said.

    Adding such a restriction to the bill could cause some obvious
    constitutional challenges, Mr. Nicholson told the committee. "Including a
    clause that attempts to constrain the Prime Minister in requesting
    dissolution of Parliament would, in our view, present a risk that we
    should not ignore that the legislation would be found unconstitutional if
    challenged in the courts," he said. "Why? Under the rules and
    conventions of responsible government, the Governor General's power
    to dissolve Parliament has to be exercised on the advice of the Prime
    Minister. The Governor General's legal power under the Constitution and
    the exercise of that power on the advice of the Prime Minister are
    fundamentally and inseparably linked. If one limits the Prime Minister's
    ability to advise, one risks constraining the Governor General's powers in
    a way that would be unconstitutional."

    Opening up constitutional talks would be "unnecessary and unwanted,"
    Mr. Nicholson said.

    Chief Government Whip Jay Hill (Prince George-Peace River, B.C.) said at
    the committee that opening constitutional talks was not necessary for
    reform. "I remember the past prime minister, the honourable Paul
    Martin, saying he refused to initiate some reforms because they'd be
    piecemeal," he said. "Any reform is certainly worthwhile and is an
    important step forward."

    Mr. Hill said that "the court of public opinion" would be enough to
    prevent the government of the day from engineering its own defeat
    prematurely, but asked Mr. Nicholson to elaborate on whether the
    government would consider defining "confidence" in the bill.

    Along with the regular items such as the Throne Speech or the budget or
    other subsequent "money bills," it's currently the government's
    prerogative to call any vote one of confidence if it feels that it's
    important enough to the government's mandate. For example, the
    Conservatives said in the spring that should a motion from the House
    Environment committee calling for Environment Minister Rona Ambrose's
    (Edmonton-Spruce Grove, Alta.) resignation reach a vote in the House, it
    would be deemed a confidence vote.

    Because practices in Parliament change and evolve, Mr. Nicholson said, it
    would be difficult to define every act of confidence. "It might include the
    Speech From the Throne, the budget, and any money bill," he said.
    "Once you say that, you also have to ask what if this country were
    deciding it was going to go to war? I think there is a convention
    developing now that Parliament will get a say on where we are deploying
    our troops or where we are engaging Canadians overseas in conflict. I
    would make the argument that once you have the definition, you've left
    out something else. To me, deciding whether Canada goes to war, or
    not, for instance, is far more important than many money bills might be
    in the overall good of this country."

    Liberal MP Karen Redman (Kitchener-Centre, Ont.) said that without
    constitutional amendments, the bill has no teeth. "This is more window-
    dressing than reform," she said at the committee. "I have to say that I
    fundamentally do have personal huge problems with this, but why I find
    that I could support it because I don't think this changes anything."

    Ms. Redman said that if the bill is passed, Prime Minister Stephen Harper
    (Calgary Southwest, Alta.) would guarantee himself to be in power until
    2009.

    Mr. Nicholson dismissed the comment, saying that the opposition has
    more say than the government does on when the next election will be.

    "We're governing on a month-to-month basis," he said. "Each session,
    we're putting forward a program and we hope to continue with that
    program."

    Three provinces have fixed date elections–British Columbia, Ontario and
    Newfoundland and Labrador. British Columbia held its first fixed date
    election on May 17, 2005 and Ontario and Newfoundland will hold theirs
    next October.

    If Monday election not possible, alternative day should be in same week:
    CEO Kingsley

    Bill C-16, the Fixed Date Election bill, calls for an election on the third
    Monday of October every four years, but if it coincides with cultural
    holidays, it could be on a Tuesday or the following Monday, but Chief
    Electoral Officer Jean-Pierre Kingsley told the Procedure and House
    Affairs Committee studying the bill that the alternative election day
    should be during the same week of the original date.

    "In terms of management, if you're not able to hold the election on the
    Monday, and you're geared for that, I find it preferable to do it on the
    Tuesday, which is what the law would say now, and if that Tuesday, for
    some reason were problematic, in light of the other criteria that are
    involved, I'd prefer to flip it over the Wednesday, so that we're only
    adding two days to the electoral process, instead of adding one week,"
    Mr. Kingsley said.

    Moreover, this would be better for parties and candidates campaigning
    as it would no prolong the election period, he said. "As people who have
    lived with you through the last election will tell you, you know what it is
    to go beyond 36 days and start to hit the higher numbers, so if we can
    restrict it two additional days, I find that would be much better than
    seven additional days."

    Mr. Kingsley told the committee he didn't believe fixed election dates
    would create a year-long campaign leading up to election day, such as
    what happens in the United States. There are fundamental differences
    between the two systems, he said, which causes the behaviour. "We
    don't have a system of primaries, and that triggers a lot of what they're
    doing. That's why they get involved a year a head of time, or even more,
    because primaries start to set in."

    The Canadian experience with majority governments generated an idea
    of when the election would take place and the year-long campaigns did
    not take place, Mr. Kingsley told the committee. "We know that it will
    reach the third year, generally. What we didn't know, and what we still
    don't know, is whether it's going to be the first six months of the fourth
    year or the last six months in which the election will be held," he said. "I
    don't think we've seen parties precipitate themselves into advertising,
    even though they know it's going to happen within that six month or the
    12 months. We haven't seen that and I don't think we'll see this because
    we fixed the election date."

    Mr. Kingsley suggested a potential solution to the concern, by
    recommending that there be an advertising ban from government and
    political parties in the four weeks leading up to the fixed election date.
    "No need to change anything but the electoral period, the amount of
    moneys to be spend during the period, nothing like that. Just keep that
    period wholly as we do it now."

    This includes keeping existing rules for candidates and third parties, he
    said. "I don't think in light of the constitution that anything else would
    be warranted with freedom of speech, freedom of association, and all
    those other things. I don't think at this stage, I have any indication that
    anything else would need to be touched in terms of the advertising
    regime or in terms of the financing scheme for the election."

    bvongdou@hilltimes.com
    The Hill Times

  6. Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:54 pm
    Hey Deacon,

    Never apologise for being correct, ;-)

    The elections ARE rigged! What we see is the pretence posing as legitimacy.



    ---
    Diogenes said:
    "I am Diogenes the Dog. I nuzzle the kind, bark at the greedy and bite scoundrels."

  7. Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:50 am
    If they can C-16 it, the next "party in power" can C-17 it the other way. This is right up there with the Conservatives offering to ban secret donations to candidates (in their election promises). If it's secret, how would you know?

  8. by Deacon
    Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:22 am
    If Guy Fawkes were still alive, I'm sure he'd try to C-4 it.

    *note: I hope CSIS isn't in the business of freaking out over satirical comments

    ---
    "and the knowledge they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

    "The Weapon" - Rush

  9. by avatar Jacob
    Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:34 pm
    "Mr. Kingsley suggested a potential solution to the concern, by recommending that there be an advertising ban from government and political parties in the four weeks leading up to the fixed election date. "No need to change anything but the electoral period, the amount of moneys to be spend during the period, nothing like that. Just keep that period wholly as we do it now." "

    Nice try, Mr. Kingsley. No advertising would be wonderful, so that the electorate can zoom in on the policies and platforms of the candidates and their parties. It would also reduce the amount of mud being slung around.

    It would also be in line with the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Electoral Reform and Party Financing, a whopping 15 years ago already...... No wonder Brian Mulroney decided to ignore it.



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