BIG Wind Power Proposal

I think if all countries, especially Canada, were to invest in research for alternative fuel sources, instead of investing in the military machine, we'd have less to fight over, and a better cleaner world!

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If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?

This sounds great, but I'm not a great fan of putting all our eggs into one basket. Instead I would prefer to see a variety of green energy sources being developed, wind, tidal, solar, biomass, geothermal, etc. etc.

I must agree, only the developing of a wide range of "green" enegy generation will solve the problem. I have copyed my reply to a previous thread on power alternatives in the "energy fourm" which points out some of the downfalls of many of the alternatives.

"Nuclear energy does not yield net energy. The amount of energy necessary to mine and process the uranium and transport it to and from the nuclear plant, plus all the other energy expenditures necessary to run the plant and personnel exceeds the amount of energy produced."

Not to forget the resources needed to build said plant! That being said I find it hard to believe that the ELECTRICAL energy produced by a nuclear plant over its life does not exceed the ELECTRICAL energy it takes to produce it. No energy is free we are just changing one form of energy into another, it is true that wind, water and solar may be considered as free in the sense that the energy already exists but means of converting it is relatively expensive (capital cost) at this time.

"There is no way to dispose of the waste in an environmentally responsible manner."
This is true and the one big problem with nuclear but I don't see any other VIABLE short term (next 20years) alternatives given our greed for electricity.

"Wind power generation is a good regenerative energy source. Electricity can be dumped onto the net or stored in batteries or used to split water into hydrogen and oxygen which can be stored for later use."

Yes hydrogen fuel cells are showing some promise but we have a ways to go on that one and battery storage is sill VERY limited even with the most high tech (and expensive) batteries. Neither storage method is suitable for large scale storage (ie. Storing output from a wind farm supplying 100s or 1000s of customers). Here in SW Ontario several wind farms are being proposed with one small one up and running (interestingly right alongside a nuclear generating plant), the problem that seem to be emerging is VISUAL pollution. Whilst this is something that we may have to live with in the future considering some of the alternatives, you can be sure that there will be much local opposition to large wind farm installations in some areas of natural beauty as well as objections from those who will be forced to look at these very large (aprox 300ft) towers.
Unfortunately some of the days when we require the most hydro (ie. Hot, humid, still days when AC units are working overtime) these wind powered generators will be not operating and therefore other more reliable sources must be used. This is not to say that they cannot help with the supply but they will always be but a small percentage for that reason.

"Geothermal is a good source of heat for heating your house or water, I don't think large scale power generation is a good idea though."

So far as I know even geothermal heating (or cooling as in heat pumps) in most cases USES hydro to transfer said energy, the gain is of course that this system produces more energy than it uses (ie. Uses less hydro than it would take to directly heat or cool by normal means). I note here that Toronto has, I believe, installed a cold water pumping system taking water from the lake and circulating it around several large office towers in place of conventional AC. This is a form of geothermal energy conversion that has some limited potential to save hydro.

"Solar energy is a good source of electricity for regions that receive a lot of sunlight."

True, but unfortunately has the same drawbacks as wind in that it is not available at all times, also for large scale installations that would provide sufficient power to supply a number of homes would require many acres of land to be over shadowed. Some potential here (in my view) for small scale installations on the roofs of industrial, commercial and apartment buildings to HELP add to our supply. The roofs after all are not being used for anything else and the cells are relatively light weight.

"Tidal power is controversial because of the effects it might generate."

I still think this has some potential but don't know enough about the problems to comment. Any one know what happened to the Bay of Fundy Tidal generation project?

"Temperature differential power generation is also a potential winner. A mile long pipe is stood up in the ocean. The water at the surface is hotter than the water at the pipe bottom. The hot and cold water are attracted to each other and the waters rushing together can be made to turn a turbine and generate electricity."

This one no doubt works in theory but I suspect it will never come to fruition on a commercial basis.

"All methods of electricity production have pros and cons. Nuclear power production is a neo-con pipe dream."

Sorry to say it again but at this point I see no other practical alternative EXCEPT the big one that has not been mentioned and is the reason that Quebec is a net exporter of power. HYDRO ELECTRIC. Water power is in my view the only clean means of producing large volumes of electricity using currently available technology. The James Bay project was not without its problems relating to the diversion of rivers, flooding of lands etc. ect. But it does provide an enormous amount of hydro with minimal long term pollution or supply costs. Like all other forms of energy conversion the capital cost was correspondingly enormous, another drawback is that most potential sites are a long way from the biggest users (cities).But consider the potential power in all that floodwater recently inundating communities in Manitoba and Alberta. Harness that and you have all the hydro you need!

"Another thing people can do is to conserve energy and switch to more energy saving eletronics and appliances."

Yes, and we must do so, in Ontario there is a move to gradualy raise the cost of hydo to more truly reflect the cost of producing it and to also eventualy have "time of day" metering so that hydro will cost more at peak times and less at off times. 30 odd years ago in England hydro was sold cheaper at night for heating (storage) units. Seems like we have only just realized that there has to be an incentive to change our (bad?) habits.

And that's my view as a Licensed Industrial electrician for over 35 years who has been watching and waiting for that "big breakthrough" for most of those years and is still waiting.

There's a big wind turbine on the CNE grounds in Toronto, only another 10,000 or so of those and all of Toronto's electricity needs could be met when the wind blows hard enough. And an entirely different generating system would be required when the wind doesn't blow. Wind power is massively inefficient and expensive - just the kind of program the Canadian government can raise taxes for!

They could set up the first wind generator in front of siamdaves mouth.

Hope there are some MPs or friends-of reading this:

- Canadians ought to be able to borrow tax-free from their own RRSP to implement any recommendations from a home energy audit, in the same way the HBP allows borrowing from your RRSP towards principle in your first home purchase.

- Canadians ought to be able to pay for any recommendations from a formal energy audit using pre-tax dollars (individuals and businesses).

- Canadians ought to be able to purchase clean power contracts with the premium payable in pre-tax dollars

- all businesses receiving startup grants, subsidies, tax excemptions and loan guarantees from government programs should be required to accept undergo energy efficiency audits and meet minimum standards for all relevant facilities.

- mortgage brokers like Scotiabank offer consolidated credit services based on home equity based financing. Most require a current audit/valuation of the property to proceed. Why not do an energy audit at the same time (it's usually the same companies) and offer zero-pain energy efficiency upgrades (bank finances the up front cap via lowering the homeowner's credit risk)? C'mon banks, make yourself look good for a change.

And the <a href="http://www.stirlingengine.com/">http://www.stirlingengine.com/</a> Stirling cycle for others. Energy crisis solved!<br />

The lamest argument I've ever heard against turbine's
was from an Albertan (conservative neocon)... "they
make the landscape so utterly unattractive"...

hehe....'argument' dismissed !