CSIS Spoke To Suspects' Parents Before Raids

Paging siamdave - care to comment as it relates to your rant of June 6th?

You kinda disappeared after that...

Thanks for posting this one. You may recall I asked the question why CSIS/RCMP did not try and get the kids out before they got arrested.

I'll dig into this new revelation and will let you know what I discover, if anything.

Unfortunately, ATM we have no idea what this all means because "CSIS isn't saying which parents it met, or when, or what precisely was discussed."

Again, we're left guessing and making up even more assumptions.

Sorry everyone – the link above is $$$ - here is a link to the entire article that doesn’t cost a thing:<br />
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<a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060615.wxterrorparents15/BNStory/National/home">http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060615.wxterrorparents15/BNStory/National/home</a><br />
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If that link doesn’t work, google the title, hit “News” and you should be able to find it for free. Only ½ the article appears in the post above. <br />

SOB!

Here is the damn text in its entirety:

CSIS spoke to suspects' parents before raids
COLIN FREEZE

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Toronto — Months before the arrests of 17 terrorism suspects, Canadian spies called on the suspects' mothers and fathers, asking them to keep an eye on their children and alleging they were embracing "extremist ideology."

"CSIS officers had approached some parents to let them know that CSIS suspected their children were becoming adherents to an extremist ideology," Canadian Security Intelligence Service spokeswoman Barb Campion said in an interview yesterday, confirming what community sources had told The Globe and Mail.

On Sunday, CSIS deputy director-general Andy Ellis attended a closed-to-the-news-media outreach meeting with about 200 Muslims in Mississauga. Queried about the period prior to the arrests, he said his spies had long been keeping tabs on group members, and even spoke to some of their parents.

Five youths were among the 17 suspects charged June 2 with participating in a terrorist activity.

While the youngest suspects are accused of taking jihadist training in the woods, it's alleged that 20- and 21-year-olds caught in a police sting were the masterminds of a thwarted truck-bomb conspiracy against targets in downtown Toronto. One of the supposed targets is the spy service's Toronto offices.

CSIS isn't saying which parents it met, or when, or what precisely was discussed. But the agency has acknowledged using a variety of gradually escalating "disruption" techniques to thwart nascent terrorist activity. If these techniques don't work, the spy agencies can call in the RCMP to lay criminal charges.

Terrorism experts reached yesterday said they were unfamiliar with some of the tactics used in this investigation. "It is so quintessentially Canadian -- a stern lecture to the parents," University of Toronto professor Wesley Wark said. He could give no other examples of the technique being used.

During a question-and-answer session in Sunday's meeting, CSIS's Mr. Ellis was asked, "If you were following this case for so many years why didn't you do something?" according to Munir (Sammi) Pervaiz of the Muslim Canadian Congress, who was at the meeting.

Mr. Pervaiz recalled yesterday that officials said authorities "had been in touch with the suspects several times, and also approached the parents, but unfortunately nothing happened" to alter the suspects' behaviour.

The spy service has long regarded Muslim parents as crucial influences for youths. While CSIS had hoped to use parents as a moderating influence in this investigation, the agency has previously expressed concerns about extremist views being handed down.

"Fathers had already embraced an extremist interpretation of Islam and passed their fervour onto the children," a CSIS analyst wrote in a 2005 discussion paper on unnamed "homegrown" extremists. "The importance of respect for elders within the Islamic tradition would enhance this message, as the children would feel the need to abide by their fathers' wishes."

But many other factors feed into the extremist mindset, according to CSIS. Internet postings, al-Qaeda-style propaganda, edicts by Islamic scholars and a variety of foreign conflicts have all been cited as factors contributing to a call-to-arms mentality. Socio-economic status is said to be a non-factor.

"Increasingly we are learning more and more extremists are homegrown. The implications of this shift are important," the discussion paper says, adding, "It is possible that an attack will be carried out by a radicalized individual -- possibly a convert to radical Islam -- seeking to punish Canada for its actions abroad."

Some Muslim clerics have said certain suspects were influenced by a radical form of Islam they learned through the Internet. The family beliefs may have varied greatly in the current round of suspects.

Some suspects held far harder-line beliefs than their parents. Zakaria Amara threatened to move out of his family home because he considered a mortgage to be contrary to Islamic law.

Please don't post entire articles. That is a violation of copyright.

Both of your links work perfectly for me.


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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

Sorry...I had no idea.

No biggie.

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"I think it's important to always carry enough technology to restart civilization, should it be necessary." Mark Tilden

They met with the parents of some of the people. We can assume immediately that they weren't talking about the janitor who was 40. So we are down to 16. 2 of these people were already in jail... 14. My vote is the parents of the minors. Probably because they thought they couldn't get decent charges against those who were under age. But that is pure speculation.

There are a couple of striking remarks in the story:

"Mr. Pervaiz recalled yesterday that officials said authorities "had been in touch with the suspects several times, and also approached the parents, but unfortunately nothing happened" to alter the suspects' behaviour."

They contacted both the suspects and the parents... and still no change in behavior? One can assume that they discussed their lectures with their co-conspirators, who either thought they could still get away with this, or are really, really stupid.

"It is so quintessentially Canadian -- a stern lecture to the parents," - I almost laughed milk out my nose reading that. This has to be something that only CSIS would engage in. I just can't imagine the FBI, the Mossad, MI-5 or any other spy agency going to the parents to discuss their wayward children until after the fact. Seems pretty misguided to me though... you are alerting your quarry that you are on to them and allow them the opportunity to disappear. Again, they didn't, so they either thought they were untouchable or they are really, really dumb.

I'm leaning to the latter point.

There are other ways to look at this, depending on your level of cynicism.

For example, perhaps the police never did say much of anything to the parents, and perhaps the police are only sensitive to the issue that people will blame them for not taking steps to help the children - after all, the police have a responsibility to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

So it is possible that the police tried to prevent a crime from taking place, and tried to help the children who got involved, but it is also possible that the police did next to nothing while nurturing a crime in progress and are now trying to make themselves look good after the fact.

I have no idea which way it is, but knowing that since 9/11 we've been heavily manipulated by fear mongering and lies, I tend to take on a very cynical view these days.

You have this gang under surveillance for months and during that time you approach the suspects parents. It's assumed these parents didn't tell their children(?) and allowed them to be arrested later. These parents remained mute for that period of time and the suspects were not suspicious. Okay! If thats what they say then Hmmm! .....George Bush is an honest man?

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Expect little from life and get more from it.