Conservatives Want Closer Ties To U.S.

<blockquote>Member of Parliament Monte Solberg, who is widely seen as finance minister in a Conservative government, told Reuters in an interview that Canada needs to better leverage its relationship, and in particular its free trade agreement, with the United States.</blockquote>Maybe this guy should what the term leverage means; it doesn't mean sucking up and kissing ass (Ralph Klein tried this and the border is still closed). What it does mean is using something you have that someone else needs to get them to respond to your needs. <blockquote>"I think we should work as hard as we can to open up those trade corridors with the U.S. to attract companies from around the world to Canada, where we have cheaper costs of doing business. (Those businesses) can then turn around and export their goods and services to the United States."</blockquote>Canada doesn't have anymore of special trading relationship with the US than any other country in the world other than we do a lot more of it. Any other country can export goods to the US as easily as Canada because Canada has no special exemptions from US trade law. This is nothing but a conservative fantasy that Canada enjoys a privileged trading relationship with the US. <blockquote>Solberg said Canada does not attract enough foreign direct investment because its taxes are too high and its red tape too long, and because it's becoming more difficult to ship goods and services across the border to the United States.</blockquote>This notion that Canada's corporate taxes are higher than the US (if Solberg was honest he would say he mean US investment) has been categorically proven to be false. As well, the foreign investment that he talks about involves 95% mergers and takeovers of Canadian businesses by mostly American companies with the subsequent loss of Canadian jobs. This has been well-documented by Mel Hurtig in his books. <blockquote>Solberg also said that the Conservatives would give a green light to bank mergers and do whatever they could to make sure Canadian banks remain competitive in the world.</blockquote>So the cons think it would be a good thing for Canadians to have one big bank to go to. I would suggest that a better way to go would be that instead of facilitating Canadian banks forays into world financing (an area in which they notoriously performed poorly at, eg. CIBC losing $200 million plus in South America) it would be much better to force Canadian banks to live up to their mandate of providing investment dollars for Canadians for being given the privilege of creating money out of thin air. This statement alone proves that the cons represent corporate interests above the grassroots they claim to speak for. What isn't said in the article but sure to follow is relaxation of ownership rules of Canadian banks. This level of incompetent thinking is unacceptable in people seeking power in a sovereign nation.

This is the same sort of neo-liberal thinking masquerading as conservatism as we have in the UK with the Conservative Party - only we have a double dose of it. On the one hand there are those who take their inspiration from the neo-conservative claque in Washington, and on the other there are those "conservatives" who would lock us in to the EU in analagous trade-political-treaty straitjackets as the "conservatives" and Liberals in Canada would do to the USA.

Tories in the UK and Canada should be talking to each other on how to deal with these issues, and with the sort of people who are the EU/USA protagonists. They are advocating "yesterday's solutions" to "the day before yesterday's problems". The world has moved on - we are no longer in the 1960s that produced George Grant's Lament - and the Empire has an external debt of US$7.5 trillion that it can't repay - its days are numbered. Do we want to shackle ourselves to a moribund polity?

We really need to swap notes and ideas across the Atlantic.

I am a Tory - not a CRAPCon - but have not held Party membership for (I am only 41 years old) years now, as I do not like the sell-out to US interests that the Party has become. This cry for closer ties with the US is, to my mind anyway, no different than the Annexationist line proposed by the Old Clear Grits of Upper Canada in the pre-Confederation years. Same old lines, same old dreams. Same potential result - the annexation of Canada by the USA in all but name. When will we learn ? Are we capable of learning ?

Welcome to Vive TrulyTory. I'm with you, a Joe Clark kind of conservative.


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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill

>>Solberg said Canada does not attract enough foreign direct investment because its taxes are too high and its red tape too long, and because it's becoming more difficult to ship goods and services across the border to the United States.<<<

He is exactly right, its much harder to start and run a business in Canada then it is in the USA, the ones already there are subject to crazy corporate tax that they can save by leaving Canada. The policies serve to push business out and lose middle class jobs for Canada.

In terms of cross border trade, I dont know if you have heard this before.... But Canada enjoyed a 55 Billion US dollar trade surplus in 2003, a 65 billion US dollar trade surplus in 2004, it is forecast to be almost 80 billion in 2005. (a trillion Canadian dollars)US trade is almost all of your non domestic service GDP. 80+% by some figures.

>>Taxes and regulatory reform are policy issues but overall economic relations with the United States, specifically border and trade disputes, can be improved just by changing the tone toward Washington, Solberg said.<<<

Naaah, I hate those bastards is a perfectly acceptable "tone" for adults to be talking to each other in. Heck, it passes for civility on Vive le Canada....

Another uniformed Conservative - learn some facts already!!

"He is exactly right, its much harder to start and run a business in Canada then it is in the USA, the ones already there are subject to crazy corporate tax that they can save by leaving Canada. The policies serve to push business out and lose middle class jobs for Canada."

Canadian tax rates for business are FAR LOWER THAN THAT OF THE US!! They have been for years!! Canadian business is very successful. Canadian businesses have been so successful they have been bought out at in record numbers.

You have shown yourself for what you are - someone capable of nothing other than repeating the same old tired lies.

<blockquote>This cry for closer ties with the US is, to my mind anyway, no different than the Annexationist line proposed by the Old Clear Grits of Upper Canada in the pre-Confederation years. Same old lines, same old dreams. Same potential result - the annexation of Canada by the USA in all but name. When will we learn ? Are we capable of learning ?</blockquote> Indeed remember that the old time Grits became the Mulroney Conservatives who committed treason with the FTA. Harper, under Mulroney's grooming is poised be become a greater traitor.

Actually, it would be around 100 billion Canadian.

A trillion is a thousand billion (in the U.S.).


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"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).

For once, let's turn this around.

Just what do you nationalists want our relationship with the US to be like? High tariffs? No trade at all? A tightly guarded border? A Berlin Wall?

How much distance from our American neighbours would be required to make you happy? Is chilly good enough, or would you prefer openly hostile?

What is your dream scenario for Caanda/US relations? We all know what you guys don't like. What do you want in its place?

That's easy. Abrogate NAFTA, close the border to all trade and movement of information, develop a defence alliance with China 'cause the Americans are going to be unhappy about this, and membership in the EU.

Good question.

To my mind, Canadian 'nationalism' isn't about the U.S., it's about creating a nation that can best serve the interests and values of its citizens. Sometimes this distinction may be overlooked, if only because it's easier to criticize the perceived faults of others than it is to take the actions necessary to correct your own.

Any 'threat' to the sovereignty of the Canadian people over their economy and affairs does not come from the U.S. as a nation or from the average U.S. citizen.

The more 'global' source of any 'threat' that does exist is the same for the average citizens of both nations. Judging from the content on numerous U.S. sites I've visited, this is becoming apparent to an increasing number of U.S. citizens.

I believe most Canadians desire a good relationship with the citizens of the U.S. and other nations. This doesn't mean they wish to become those nations, or become inextricably bound into their economies or affairs, or become a nation where decisions are based in the main on what certain business entities see as being desirable.

For myself, I like to have a good relationship with my neighbours. However, I don't wish to become dependent on them and/or place my life and future in their hands.

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"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).

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Canadian tax rates for business are FAR LOWER THAN THAT OF THE US!! They have been for years!! Canadian business is very successful. Canadian businesses have been so successful they have been bought out at in record numbers.

You have shown yourself for what you are - someone capable of nothing other than repeating the same old tired lies.<<<

LOL, I pay taxes in both countrys, Tell me, how do Canadian corporate tax rates stack up to US ones? God, so wrong yet so smug about it.

>>That's easy. Abrogate NAFTA, close the border to all trade and movement of information, develop a defence alliance with China 'cause the Americans are going to be unhappy about this, and membership in the EU.<<<

Thats a keeper for the Vive le Canada hall of fame! Have fun in the goulag you built.

<blockquote>In terms of cross border trade, I dont know if you have heard this before.... But Canada enjoyed a 55 Billion US dollar trade surplus in 2003, a 65 billion US dollar trade surplus in 2004, it is forecast to be almost 80 billion in 2005. (a trillion Canadian dollars)US trade is almost all of your non domestic service GDP. 80+% by some figures.</blockquote>Sorry bud but you've got your facts all wrong. Mel Hurtig in his books has documented that such trade surpluses don't exist. Here's why. The figures you quoted don't include services, which absolutely have to be included in any calculation of trade deficit or surplus between the US and Canada considering the number of American corporations we have in this country who ship off most of their services such as accounting and computing services to either their parent company or firms in the US (these jobs would not exist in the US were it not for their Canadian operations). As well, when goods are assembled in Canada, such as vehicles, the parts that were imported into Canada from the US with which to assemble the products are not being excluded in the accounting of the final product value when it is exported back to the US, thus inflating the value of our exports to the US. This occurs extensively in the auto assembly industry, which is the single largest exporter of goods to the US in Canada. <p>With regards to your complaint about it being hard to start a business in Canada, I suspect your complaint is really that it is hard to get access to capital. This can be directly attributed to Canadian banks reluctance to loan money to small businesses because of perceived or real risk. Also, banks would much rather make relatively few big loans that they perceive as being more secure than make the effort to make thousands of small loans for their money to make the same interest.