Canadians, Wake Up!

I disagree. The people of Quebec are not as different as other Canadians. Remember that even the BQ have softened their approach by referring to "sovereignty" rather than "separatism." In the end there is more that unites us than separates us.

We all know the risks of de-confederation. Atlantic Canada could not survive geographically divided from the rest of Canada. They would be absorbed into the United States as colonies if not directly. Ontario's trade is totally dependent on the US as it Quebec's. Alberta has a strong integrationist element. If Quebec separates it will be the first stage in total North American integration and a threat to Quebec culture. This is why Harper and the Conservatives are ready to work with the separatists. De-confederation and North American integration in the end are the same thing.

<p>What are you talking about...de-confederation ! Canada isn't even confederated to begin with. How about we start by 'confederating' first and then see where that takes us?

Well thought out, however, I also healthily disagree:

QUOTE: The BQ have softened their approach by referring to "sovereignty" rather than "separatism.

Thank you. You are underlining the fact that the Quebecois threat of separation is only but that: A threat. I live in Quebec, the rest of Canada can no longer stand by and do nothing while the systematic cleansing of the English language continues unopposed in order to keep racists content within the confederation. I wonder aloud what Mr Duceppe is thinking while cashing in his healthy paychecks courtesy of the Canadian Taxpayer or of the generous Canadian Member of Parliament Pension he will receive. Does he really want to secede from Canada?

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QUOTE: Atlantic Canada could not survive geographically divided from the rest of Canada.

My heart goes out to Atlantic Canadians...I've had the pleasure of working with these great and honorable people. Bless them and may the powers that be shield them from the stupidity that has become Canada.

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Saying that Canadian trade is totally dependant on the US is an understatement. Therefore, let's keep on jabbing our Canadian fingers in that beast's eye...

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QUOTE: Alberta has a strong integrationist element

Let's face it: Canada is a 'burden and anchor' for Alberta. Years ago, I was offered work in Alberta...hindsight is 20/20...Additionally, a 'Separatist' element also exists in Alberta which cannot be ignored.

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Harper is working with the Bloc because he smells blood...he wants to be PM as bad as Martin does. Just like all of 'em, he is also is a corrupt political prostitute.


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QUOTE: De-confederation and North American integration in the end are the same thing

I disagree. The above is an oxymoron. Unless you imply that de-confederation will result in civil war spawning ethnic cleansing (in Quebec), thereafter reshaping borders when peace will be declared.

Call me a cynic, but I'm calling it as I see it...without blowing politcal smoke.

Marcus

agreed. canada would have to be a country first, wouldn't it. as opposed to a french business colony and a british holistic-liberalist colony. who would separate from whom? and why? no one is together to separate. newfoundland and the remainder of atlantic seaboard peoples would simply become themselves once again. they don't need the angst you bring them. as far as anyone outside of canada can tell about your country, everyone has already gone their own way a long time ago. implosion has been brought about by the hate crowd and now they are beginning to see the results of their devisiveness. you can't unify a country based on hating everyone and everybody as they do on this site and it's sponsoring party affiliation does. when you sit on the sidelines and pick everyone and everything apart instead of working constructively for the common good, you get the end result that the people running this site are getting now. you hacked away and picked apart your foundation before you even had your house built. sad. we feel sorry for you. best of luck rebuilding your house canada.

Breaking the country into autonomous elements, as Harper suggests, may make some of the provinces individually stronger but not strong enough to withstand integration. Even Ontario will not be able to withstand that pull alone.

The answer to problems that arise out of a too-weak central government is not to kill off the weakling but to strengthen it.
Part of the writer's sentiment I agree with: Threats of separation are hollow.
However, we must not confuse the clamour of opportunistic politicians, in any language, with the ascendency of separatism.
We are hearing the former with no evidence of the latter, yet.
My advice is don't take the bait. It's public reaction by non-french Canada that angers and riles the people.
Besides, when the real choice is framed as one between Ottawa and Washington, who do you think the majority of the inhabitants north of the 49th would choose?


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"The very fact that the concept "anti-American" can exist exhibits a totalitarian streak that's pretty dramatic." Noam Chomsky

<blockquote>Saying that Canadian trade is totally dependant on the US is an understatement. Therefore, let's keep on jabbing our Canadian fingers in that beast's eye... ------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: Alberta has a strong integrationist element Let's face it: Canada is a 'burden and anchor' for Alberta. Years ago, I was offered work in Alberta...hindsight is 20/20...Additionally, a 'Separatist' element also exists in Alberta which cannot be ignored. ------------------------------------------------------------- Harper is working with the Bloc because he smells blood...he wants to be PM as bad as Martin does. Just like all of 'em, he is also is a corrupt political prostitute.</blockquote> To say Canada is totally dependent on US trade is a simplistic statement and shows a complete lack of understanding of the nature of our trade with the US. First, most of what we trade to the US consists of raw materials, with energy being at the top of the list. This will go on no matter what because Americans as the world's top consumers needs this and because more and more these are American companies producing the materials. As for the rest of the trade, most of this consists of American companies essentially using Canada's cheaper production costs. Wages are generally less, the Canadian dollar is still about 15 to 20% below the US dollar, and the major benefit cost of healthcare is comparatively nonexistent here. As far as sticking our finger in the eye of the beast, if it gets Canadian business off their lazy asses to start looking for other trading opportunities that's great. For instance, this beef crisis and lumbar crisis have been ongoing for over two years now and neither sector can seem to fathom any other solution than getting their products back into the US. The whole mad cow thing could have been behind us now had our myopic farmers and provincial politicians tested every cow for export, built more slaughtering capacity, and then gone after world markets (Japan indicated that this sort of testing would have been acceptable to them). <p>Alberta's separatist element is just that, an element, and consists of mostly dissatisfied farmers who can't sell their wheat to a US monopoly instead of the Wheat Board monopoly and who only look to short-term gain (they don't understand that the American short-term higher price is being offered only while the Wheat Board is there). No one I talk to here gives any credence to separation as on option, mainly because they know that most of the jobs here are still completely dependent on oil and gas and that when the ability of this province to exploit these resources comes to an end this province will be in no position to support itself as a country. Alberta also does not indpendently control the water resources needed for oilsands production and the natural gas needed for it is on the decline in alberta already. <p>I agree that Harper is simply lusting for power but I would also say that he doesn't care about working with Quebec separatists because he simply sees that as means to bring American policies to Canada. I agree that the implications of Quebec separation is only understood by Quebec's elite and that they have been feeding a line to Quebecois when they talk about sovereignty association and the like when this idea has been thoroughly rejected in the other provinces.

I don't think the elite have much if any understanding of the real consequences of what they are doing. They know what they can sell out in the short term and they don't see a long term being any different from the short term. Rich people do not do without. Rich people do not go hungry or eat from a garbage can or sleep on the street.

Quebecers want what we all want. Jobs with a future to them. Communities that are not walled off, neighbors that they know and are friends with. A future for the kids The only way to get these things is to get rid of the ruling class and their snivel service of politicians, bureaucrats and corporate psycophants!

What we can't do is leave the driving to anybody else anymore! We all need to be the nuts behind the wheel from now onward. We need to have proportional representation dtermine who governs the country. Then we can really begin to decentralize the decision making process.

One thing to remember is that what we are presently faced with has been engineered by the ruling class. There is no energy crisis or economic crisis or separatist crisis. The only crisis that there is, is an ignorance crisis!

Milton, I think you have made a really important point here. Decision making, or dithering, are a factor that has become a major problem because so much decision making is made at the center: in the PMO.

It seems to me that PMO staff, who are political appointees, make decisions that should be made by the cabinet or, depending on the circumstances, by the bureaucracy. Anyone who has read "Governing from the Center" or the "The Friendly Dictatorship" can get an idea of how centralized decision making has become.

It seems that the "culture" that has evolved that has made decision making totally dysfunctional. There is another concern here about how much the government relies on what are called "stakeholders." This really refers to people who have a "self-interest" rather than a "public interest" in the decision making process. That means that the special interests of "stakeholders" takes precedence over the public interest.

Québec sovereignty is not a threat, it is political will. The only reason it narrowly hasn't happened is because the corrupt ruling class made sure it didn't. The corruption they used to achieve their goals is excusable of course, but don't cry foul when you're on the receiving end of it cause you'll sound like a Quebecker. Half the population of Québec are not politicians making threats, they are real people who understand the "centralist" model doesn't work and never has.

I'm not sure exactly how this isn't a forum topic, since it's basically one person's view (how come I don't get my own sounding board here?:)

I disagree about both the thrust and the direction of the comments here. I do agree about the point about the PMO office having too much power, however, the 'answer' to this is to give power to provincial governments, where essentially the same themes govern. Even if you devolve further you'll find most municipal governments are 'development first' as well, run by bureaucrats and councillors who seldom go far from the chamber of commerce party line.

All of these governments exist (as far as I can see) to protect and enforce business and trade relations. All the 'evils' of corporations are not restricted to american ones (european ones large enough to compete over here are typically little better, and as mentioned, even canadian ones -banking and insurance comes to mind- have no problem short shifting canadians while having their industries protected). As a maritimer (who disagrees with the previous mention of how 'honourable' we are-we aren't any different than any place else, where the middle class is far from honourable), I know that the maritimes haven't exactly benefitted from canada, and while I also disagree that the maritimes 'can't survive'-which just seems like a crazy statement-the idea of separating and keeping the same form of government in place is just as crazy.

As I've said before, until canadians join the global fight for democracy, it will continue down it's path to becoming a 'have not' country.

I don't know how much experience you have with local governance but from my knowledge I do not believe that the majority of provincial and municipal politicians would really want to have more work and responsibility dumped onto them.

It is true that the federal government over the past few years have ignored their responsibilities but because incompetent politicians allowed that to happen does not mean that we should simply give up on the country.

Certainly there are a few premiers like Klein, Charest, and Lord who are trying to co-opt federal powers in international affairs. The fact that the Liberal government permitted that to happen is because we have had weak Prime Ministers who seemed to have lost the sense of what a sovereign country really means. We need nation builders not nation destroyers promoting asymetrical federalism, provincial autonomy, and city states.

Let's be sane.....the provinces are even worse than the PMO.

-Perturbed.

There’s a difference between ‘work’ and ‘responsibility’. For example, the canadian association of municipalities has long lobbied for federal recognition since they have no legal standing outside the province, which always leaves them at the behest of provincial leaders-and often usurps their authority. This, however, doesn’t mean ‘politicians’- who are not integral to the daily function of municipalities- but the bureaucrats who run the show (again, the federal government in miniature). Most politicians are overworked by sitting on committee’s, places which from research I’ve noticed are simply places where they can show constituents that they are earning their paycheques while exercising little power or authority. Municipalities WANT more taxing powers simply because they have virtually none and the other levels of government have passed on responsibilities to them that they had no business doing (housing, social responsibilities, etc). So they do want more responsibilities because they have to have them to cope.

I haven’t seen much evidence of that ‘co-opting’ going on, most of the Premiers simply do their jobs internationally, namely by trying to drum up business. You can’t do that within Canada because other provinces will jump on your back for poaching jobs. Provincially there are no trade agreements-these are all done federally so there’s nothing a province can do but endorse that, so in fact we have an incredibly powerful federal government when it comes to trade. Under NAFTA regulations the federal government oversees and enforces provincial compliance with NAFTA, so that is clearly false. I don't agree that the provinces are 'worse' than the PMO, the federal government is easily the most powerful institution in the country with tremendous powers, even with global trade rules. Most provinces in Canada are completely reliant on the federal government, if not for direct subsidies, then for protection of vital industries. And have not provinces are virtual outposts of the federal government as federal transfers are all that keeps them going (that isn't an endorsement of provincial politicians however).

The final two paragraphs of the above statement are quite confusing as the author talks about wanting a strong federal government yet with more provincial powers and more municipal powers, which seems to be a catch 22.

The current federal system IS flawed, we know that since the beginning of Canada has shown a clear demarcation between winners and losers-which is fine for sporting events but is not way to run a country where people’s lives are at issue. When it comes down to it, the problem is one of money-we know it’s there, it’s currently in the hands of corporations like banks, insurance companies, etc., and goes to investors rather than into the country which supports them. The money is there, as always it just isn’t being shared equitably. The problem is how do you change that, and that is a problem that people all over the world are working at. I don’t see how a government made up of the people who benefit from the status quo can change that, which is why I support direct democracy.