Paul Martin's Dilemma On The West.

Your point is well taken, doc, but I also know many Ontarians who feel the same as you. In fact, I don`t even own a gun, and never have, but I agree with you on this. Criminals will not register their arms! And responsible gun owners shouldn`t be treated like criminals either! As for the money spent on this farce, I think it`s a combination of administrative costs, as well as people simply seeing a mechanism for lining their own pockets at the taxpayers expense! kind of like the story where the MP, or whoever, says, \" I need a new stapler and three hole punch for my office. It cost me $600.00! \" Yeah, sure. But I still wish that westerners wouldn`t look at this as an alienation thing, because easterners are angry about it too. I say let easterners and westerners unite and demand of their government that if they really want to fight crime, then first, violent crimes must be punished more severely, and secondly, re-investing in health care, education, affordable housing, and the like, will DEFINITELY cool the climate in which violent crime flourishes! Not to mention, I simply think that since the government knows that their sellout of Canada and the assault on social and economic justice will anger many Canadians, they simply want to know who has the guns! So, when it all hits the fan, they come around to each door and say, \"We know you`ve got em. Cough em up!\"

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Dave Ruston

I'm sure that there are Canadian all across the country that feel ripped off because of this. Let's just say the gun registry seemed like it was aimed directly at westerners (to us) for exactly the reason you state. Plus, as you say from personal experience, the rate of gun ownership seemed to be lower in the East, the West being more rural than parts of the East, so again it seemed like we were being targeted.<p> Registration seemed to be the prelude to confiscation, at a time when it seemed everything the Feds did was unpopular in the West. It was like they were trying to tick us off, then blame the lack of customs patrols across our porus border with the US on duck hunters.<p> <p>---<br>"History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme" Mark Twain

<P>Good question. <P>Unfortunately, with the gun control debate, most folks already have a catalogue of talking points lined up, and the probability of actually addressing the original questions is about nil. <P>For instance, I am definitely an alienated westerner, but my alienation pre-dates the gun registry by decades. <P>Moreover, the registration issue has always seemed like an American import to me--not for everyone, but certainly for the majority of people I had to listen to when I went for a beer after work. Those folks mainly defended their 2nd Amendment "rights," hailed Charleton Heston, and could only rarely be persuaded to engage the social presence of violence as anything other than political correctness. They just weren't interested. But that is still another subject. <P>To be fair, no one "had a billion dollars to work with" for the gun registry either. They had a little over $100 million, most of which they were expected to make back in fees. We all know about projects that overrun their budget. I would guess that not many of us know of projects that don't. Going over budget has become a kind of social norm, an expectation that fits with living beyond our means. But where is the limit? If a project--any project--goes 10x over its limit, is that too much? 20x? 30x? <P>Over budget is not just a left-wing aberration. Reagan and Bush, both promising fiscal conservatism, ran the US into unprecedented debt. Even Margaret Thatcher increased government spending. Drawing the line in fact appears to be one of Martin's strengths. But I wonder what are the corporate pressures to allow projects, once they have been approved beyond a certain point, to run over as much as necessary. <P>The first case of failure to register a firearm will set the precedent for all that follow, so it's not a big surprise that it hasn't happened yet. Statistics that show something about the impact on crime or the saving of life are unlikely until after implementation has been complete for some years. Statistical propositions require big numbers to reduce random errors. But why $1 billion is a question that should be answered now.

Well, Doc, i`ve heard you say it, I`ve heard Susan say it, and now Earthling says it-Western alienation is a concern. But I still don`t know why? I mean, let`s face it, if you really look at it, the gun registry thing, stupid as it is, is not solely aimed at westerners. The National Energy policy was designed to give Canada greater control over its own resources, and it would have been a good plan for all of us, even Alberta, had it been given more time to materialize, especially without American pressure. The Canadian Wheat Board was originally designed to benefit all farmers. Really, I can`t dismiss your claims if 3 of you now claim it, but I really don`t see it as a western alienation thing. The NEP was viciously attacked by Washington and Texas oil men because ,well the US wants to control everything, especially energy! Unfortunately, I think people bought into the Texas backed propaganda that Ottawa was somehow trampling on Alberta. I mean, we`re all supposed to be Canadians, but I still remember bumper stickers from Alberta that said ,\" Let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark\" but yet let`s just give it all away to the USA, right? Again with the gun registry, rural people in Ontario, Quebec, Alberta, PEI, or wherever in Canada, generally dislike this farce. I don`t see it as \' let`s just make people west of the Ontario-Manitoba border register their guns.\' As for the Canadian Wheat Board, it was a strength in Canadian numbers plan which was good for all Canadian farmers, but now, don`t blame the plight of the farmer on once again trying to get those westerners. Blame it on not only a neutered Canadian government, but a NAFTA-WTO type of mindset that has highjacked our trade policies! If we truly want to save Canada, we`ve got to quit buying into the propaganda of the American corporate fascists and resist their plan of divide and conquer!!! A good example is health care. The people of CANADA have said through the Romanow Report that the federal government must expropriate control of health care away from the provinces, and then ratify the Romanow report!!! Right now, I live in a region of the country that because of globalization has seen a huge decline in well paying jobs. Most of the manufacturing jobs in the Niagara Region have up and gone! But I don`t say that this is a \'Niagara alienation thing.\' I merely say, \" Look what these losers are doing to my country!\" But I`m open to what westerners have to say about this, and I empathize with whatever feelings they have. So if I`m still missing something, let me know! But one thing that really bugs me, and i`ve heard other Albertans say it, is that they`d like to join the States. Well, i say to them, if you think it`s better as an American, then simply MOVE THERE!

Whoops! You probably knew it, but the last comment was mine. Forgot to log in.

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Dave Ruston

<P>It's simple, Dave. My Western alienation is renewed every time there's a federal election. I don't have a TV, so I go down to a pub to watch the returns come in. Just about the time that people out here are getting off work, picking up the kids at daycare, and heading off to vote, the reporters covering the Real Election back East are bidding one another farewell and spiralling out to celebrations in various parts of Toronto. The Real Election is over. <P>You could say that it's just a bad attitude on my part. I know this perception could be "fixed" by regulating the way election results are broadcast. But that would just paper over the truth that once the Ontario vote can be extrapolated, the Real Elections Really Are Over. All that's left is the Opposition. At least we get to watch it on TV. <P>This is a systemic, not a Liberal, failure. It might even be a little misleading to call it Western alienation. It's been called "regional disparity." I feel a kinship with the frustration that people living in the territories and the Maritimes and even Quebeckers must feel. Some times I jokingly describe myself as an Ontario separatist. Just a joke, really. I agree with you; it's going to take solidarity and a lot of creativity to assert Canadian sovereignty in any meaningful way. <P>A reformed Senate might provide equal representation to all regions. A council of premiers is a suspicious way of trying to do the same and a lot more--too much more for my liking. Meanwhile, the Reform/Alliance/no longer Progressive, but probably neo-Conservative Party has chosen the naked-lunge-for-power approach. This won't fix anything, but at least there might be a second national party, for whatever that would be worth. How many political parties would the people like to support? Representing the territories doesn't seem to be a priority for anyone. I think if I lived in Yellowknife, I would experience a lot of Northern alienation. <P>As for the particular issues, I see the Wheat Board (and something like the Crow Rate) as a viable way to compete with the US. We would have to be prepared to drop tariffs or provide other kinds of support for agricultural producers and other Third World countries that we wanted to do business with. We would have to stop trying to win the game of Fast Track Superpower that the EU seems to want so badly. The NEP and FIRA were good ideas feebly implemented. They lost their traction during the Thatcher-Reagan era. Before Reagan's time, Canadians across the country paid less for gasoline at the pump than Americans did. When Reagan came in, the practice of subsidizing good ideas practically disappeared, probably because Reagan couldn't really tell the difference between good ideas and bad ones. <P>The gun registry is another story entirely. Suffice it to say that Western alienation is not entirely about policy issues. We've had a Reform/Alliance etc. guy in the Kootenays for ten years. I know folks who see voting for him as an act of enlightened defiance. "The border doesn't exist," he says. Very globalized and post-internet of him to think so. This year he sounded a lot like warmed-over chickenhawk. Funny how the footnotes for these guys' positions lead to American sources. Not a single continental or Asian thinker.

I happen to be a B.C.er that does not feel the same \"Western Alienation\" that DrCaleb feels and would like him to say he\'s alienated please. I\'m first and foremost Canadian. My provincial home is not my first love. Canada is. Maybe that\'s why I don\'t feel the same alienation.

I do know that because we have a smaller population we have less say. IF we profess to be living in a Democracy (and I would like to live in a democracy) I accept that.

I would like to get rid of Provincial governments as such and then maybe we wouldn\'t feel so separated. The only way to get a proportional say is if we change the way we elect government.

I agree with you. Good points another anonymous.

I\'ve always thought that since provinces were created in horse and buggy days, we can do better today.

If I have my numbers right, think about this:

The Feds have a work force of some 175,000, and the Ontario government has some 63,000.

Interesting fact, in Ontario, more than 12,000 earn more than $100,000, some as high as $400K and $500K.

Good money if you can get it. They should take a pay cut to help out with our $5.6 billion deficit.

Personally, I don\'t think provinces should be allowed to run deficits. Put them in jail if they do. That is money management at its worst.

I\'m not holding my breath !!




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"Arrogance in Politics is unacceptable"
Jim Callaghan
Minden, Ontario
705-286-1860
www.misterc.ca

Thanks for all of yout insight, my fellow Canadians!

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Dave Ruston