[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= whelan costen]<br /> 1-What does it mean to be a Canadian citizen? <br /> 2-What rights do we have as a citizen?<br /> 3-What responsibilities do we have to this nation and our fellow citizens? <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> 1. It means that we are who are deemed 'citizens' are collectively responsible for the conduct of our government, in all matters internal and external.<br /> <br /> 2. We have none, other than what we claim, defend and protect for ourselves.<br /> <br /> 3. Since we are responsible for Canada's conduct, I think two quotes say it best:<br /> <br /> (I like this one, because many misquote it, seemingly redefining it to mean blind patriotism, when it is instead a call to action) <br /> <br /> "My country right or wrong, when right to support and when wrong to correct her” Adam Smith<br /> <br /> and this one, because it defines the situation we are in of corporate and government dominance:<br /> <br /> "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go now from us in peace. We ask not your counsels nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were ever our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

[rearguard]

Ah, but what makes a citizen a legally binding citizen? <br /> <br /> If your citizenship can be taken away then such a move suggests that citizenship can be legally granted. How then do we become legally defined as "citizens", and how it is possible that once a citizen that we can lose our legal status as a citizen?<br /> <br /> The rule of law must be clear.<br /> <br /> IMO once you are a citizen, that's it and there should NO possible way of losing that status no matter what you do (or do not do). <br /> <br /> edit: unless you voluntarily revoke it yourself of course, I can also agree with losing citizenship if you lied or failed to disclose to become a citizen, but that would have to be proven in a real court rather than in an immigration kangaroo court.<br />

[whelan costen]

Good points, and I would go further when I consider what it means to be a citizen, because if I have a responsibility to enter into the running of my country, to consider my decision before I vote, to weigh the pros and cons of who best should represent me, that indicates that as a citizen in a democracy my representative is only that and nothing more. <br /> <br /> My legal representative cannot enter into a binding agreement on my behalf without my full consent. This should also apply to my political representative, should it not? <br /> <br /> It would seem, that it is a natural birthright to be a citizen, if born in this country and an invitation and privilige to those who are not born here, but rather adopt Canada as their country of choice. Whether adopted or by birth we owe the nation something for that privilege and that includes the responsibility for knowing what is going on in the country and affecting decisions.

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= whelan costen] My legal representative cannot enter into a binding agreement on my behalf without my full consent. This should also apply to my political representative, should it not? [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> You would think it would, but the trouble with a representational democracy, is that how does one representative deal with the many differing opinions of whom they represent?<br /> <br /> On things like 'trade' deals, that should be put to referendum. Anything that affects the population of a region should be.

[rearguard]

"On things like 'trade' deals, that should be put to referendum. Anything that affects the population of a region should be."<br /> <br /> I agree with that, and since referendums to determine if Canada may be sold off or not (among other things) are seemingly not required, I have to ask what it means to be a citizen - are we going to accept an existence like livestock on a farm or are we going to demand that we be included in the running of the farm? Citizens in a democracy *must* be considered as truly active participants in the process, rather than as passive "voters" who do next to nothing but select a new dictatorship once every 4 years. Worse still, the election process is highly biased towards the ruling establishment and bares little resemblance to proportional representation. We often see so-called majority governments get elected with less that 1/4 of the popular vote[1].<br /> <br /> Canada needs a real constitution that takes away power from government and hands it over to the people. A real constitution can also serve to help solve the problem of a "tyranny of the majority".<br /> <br /> The constitution that Canada currently has is full of holes and is very weak, allowing our government to use it as an excuse to run amok. To rid ourselves of a bad government us "citizens" are left with no legal option that is practical, and no practical option that is legal.<br /> <br /> 1. I'm including voters who select "none of the above". The process leaves them with no option but to stay home on election day, otherwise I expect many would show up and vote "none of the above". Staying home in protest is a *far* better strategy than spoiling your ballot!

[whelan costen]

hmmm this gets me to thinking...maybe vive could sponsor a contest for Canadian citizen day; a day that highlights what it means to be a full citizen of this nation...what do I do to contribute to a better world, a better community, or what should I do if I want my country to be...whatever it is we want....perhaps an essage contest and then we post them on vive and have the viewers vote; discuss etc. <br /> <br /> I wonder if this is a possibility? We could select a day before July 1, like say start the contest in April and have the postings in May and vote in early June. Something like that...a day that is create by the people for the people to celebrate our rights and responsibilities as citizens.<br /> <br /> Use it or lose it! The Canadian Citizenship Proclamation Day! <br /> <br /> Something like that...<br /> <br /> Does that make sense? and Does anyone else think it could work? It might get people thinking? No monetary prize, only the opportunity to be considered the best essay in Canada and have your views read and discussed by people all over the world. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'>

[rearguard]

Catherine, that's an interesting suggestion which revived an old idea I had worked out a couple years ago.<br /> <br /> I won't get too deep into the detail here, but as you may have noticed by now, I have completely lost faith in the traditional political process. No offense intended, as I know you are a politician, but it has become clear to me through the simple observation of what traditional politics has been able to achieve throughout the ages, that the answer to whatever problems we have today will not be solved through the traditional political process. I know that some politicians truly want to do the right thing and there are some (perhaps many perhaps not - I don't know) who are actually honest and trustworthy, but despite their best efforts Canada has been flushed and is already on its way out to sea.<br /> <br /> Now having said that, I was thinking that perhaps it is time for everyone to become a politician[1]. Why? because it is a very bad idea to entrust our livelihoods to a few people, who through historical observation have not been able to do a good job (in fact I would argue they've done the opposite of "good").<br /> <br /> What you are suggesting, is that we (as in ordinary Canadians) submit suggestions describing what it is to be a "citizen" and I assume specifically what we think of as being a Canadian citizen.<br /> <br /> The idea I had was along those lines, but taken further to formalize a process and create a repository of sorts, that would record through consensus alone, how ordinary Canadians[2] view their country, what they want their country to be like, i.e., how they think it should be run, even to the degree of ordinary Canadians drafting up what they think a Canadian constitution should look like (e.g., let's take the Charter and allow it to be modified to make it into a Charter that Canadians - rather than a few self-serving politicians - want). <br /> <br /> One can think of it as a nonpartisan wholly "grassroots" collaborative effort among Canadians of all walks of life and views defining what they *want* Canada to be like. Of course there will be polar opposites fighting tooth and nail away for their ideals, but that would be a good thing to see!<br /> <br /> If such a project were to attract enough attention, and have a large enough base of support among the people, then it could be used as a basis for forcing[3] the establishment to accept change, and it could serve to empower the people into participating in what many perceive to be a process that is completely out of reach[4].<br /> <br /> 1. Diogenes may agree with this suggestion (?).<br /> 2. Anyone can participate - although showing that you are Canadian may be an issue, but this is only a nutty idea without the gritty details worked out. Perhaps anyone should be allowed to participate Canadian or not because good ideas have no bounds.<br /> 3. The political establishment will not willingly agree to change, hence my use of the word "force" (which *does not* imply a need for violence which is something I oppose). By definition, an establishment is established because it has been able to resist change and persist in the face of competing forces that threaten it. My view is that the political establishment will not be able to stand up against an idea that becomes overwhelmingly popular among the population.<br /> 4. Voter participation is declining most likely because it is perceived to be an <a href="http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?section=loi&dir=tur/tud&document=index&lang=e&textonly=false">ineffective process</a>.<br />

[whelan costen]

Thanks rearguard,<br /> First, I am not a politician per se; my intent was never to be a politician. I entered politics as a natural process, was invited into the realm because of my way of speaking and writing and my passion. But when you say perhaps we should all be politicians then I am in sinc, after all what is politics if not the matters which concern the people, and if the people are not politicians then we are not part of the process. What I see today is that the so called politicians have taken our rightful place and turned it into an inside club for the elite, serving the elite and with contributions from the elite; that is not democracy nor does it serve the people of Canada.<br /> <br /> So it is highly unlikely that I will run in the next federal election. My experience has shown me that as you say, the mainstream parties and the system itself is flawed and unbalance, if we are to change the country and create a positive world it will be through the people not by the politicians or political parties ( which are primarily not run by the grassroots. I have yet to see evidence of that). We are going to have to take the negative energy affecting us and decide how to turn it into a positive force of goodwill, peace and harmony. <br /> <br /> I like your suggestions and I sense that as vive began as a form of communication to not only inform, educate and vent our frustration; but the primary goal was to find new ways to keep our country intact and thrive that it may be time to begin to focus on those actions rather than just talk! <br /> <br /> If vive can begin the movement towards people 'thinking' about what it means to be a citizen and perhaps what they are willing to do, what they believe their responsibilities are then we can create all kinds of slogans, marketing stuff, brochures etc that may move beyond vive? That would be the hope...Perhaps we could start by posting the Charter of Rights, the Canadian Constitution and discuss what that means? I am amazed at how many people don't know we have such power. <br /> <br /> Here's a blind stab at a word we could use to promote the movement....<br /> Citizen-hip-'n-action....maybe others will think of more and better? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'>

[Diogenes]

Here is a refreshing understanding on what it is to be a “citizen”<br /> <br /> http://www.worldservice.org/wcd.html<br /> <br /> “The world...universally outgoing, conceptually unbounded, the planet dynamically, synergistically and organically one with itself and the cosmos. <br /> Citizenship...the restrictive rights and duties within a given social structure. <br /> The two words together seem paradoxical. "You can educate either the citizen or the man," wrote Thoreau. Yet in their union lies the potential success of the human species; in their non-union lies the demise of a fatally-flawed creature which could not overcome its self- imposed global anarchy. <br /> This is the perennial mystery of the conceptual "joining" the perceptual. How and where does spirit indwell in the body? <br /> World citizenship today implies the joining of the perennial wisdom of humankind with up-to-the-minute geo-political and geo-technical reality. <br /> "The term 'world citizen' can be better understood with a negative definition than with a positive one. If a citizen of a state with political frontiers is expected to pay allegiance to the government of the state to which he or she belongs and is expected to take arms against aliens who might invade the territory of the state, a world citizen recognizes the entire world as one's state and in principle does not recognize any member of one's own species as an alien to the world community to which oneself belongs. Such a person recognizes the earth as one's sustaining mother, the innate inviolable laws of nature as one's protecting father, all sentient beings as one's homes. The world citizen's allegiance is to the foundation of truth, the universality of knowledge and the fundamental ground of all values."<br /> - Guru Nitya Chaitanya Yati, founder/head, East-West Univers”<br /> <br /> I fully agree with the definition of citizenship given above,<br /> “Citizenship...the restrictive rights and duties within a given social structure.”<br /> <br /> It is these “restrictive rights” I have issue with as any right granted can also be taken away.<br /> And generally speaking the granting body assumes a power not given by popular consensus.<br /> <br /> Because I fervently believe there continues to be the workings of the nefarious combination crying up usurpt power (because we have allowed it) and declaring that stolen power rule of law that we must obey I goad, coax and trick if I have to, people into examining the seemingly never ending memes created by those we have trusted with our lives.<br /> <br /> <br /> On the idea of “citizenship” I am attracted only to a code of honour long since lost and one my Sovereign Citizen friends ascribe to, and that is Natural Law.<br /> <br /> Made up law benefits only those who make it up!<br /> <br /> <br />

[Sleepstalker]

To me being a "citizen" implies conformity to the status quo the "people of power at the day" Hence the word "citizen " and what it implies to me on a personal level does not mean much . I am not inherently a rebel only consistent in my disappointment of the system politico and the hidden apathy of the masses. A product and creature formed by our wonderful land and proud and hopeful of our possibilities that I cannot refute or ignore. It is through free speech and bravery of all kinds that we have the means to educate ourselves and others on the hard rocky road that is the quest for Canada's future. This is my first post here , I look forward to more interaction with the regulars here . No disrespect to the regular Reverend . I became an ordained minister online on a whim and now the irony is I find myself thinking of spirituality and making a true difference in some way as I grow older.<br /> I have been accused of being longwinded and somewhat blunt in my posts , this is how I am and probably the only slight form of apology you will see from me.<br /> Warm regards and greetz to Diogenes who has been both an adversary and friend as time moves on.<br /> <br /> ...nuff said...Sleepster...

[Diogenes]

"FAR OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1<br /> GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE SLEEPS !", I shouted joyously<br /> This man taught me humility OK I'm a slow learner <br /> He is the type of individual that has the Grace to appologise <br /> I try to do that sometime I succeed most times I fail<br /> I am however forever in gratatude for the lesson <br /> Welcome Sleepster!<br /> Dio

[whelan costen]

Welcome sleepstalker...it is great to see new people posting and I look forward to your contributions. I am impressed with the responses to this question. <br /> <br /> Being a citizen seems to be a label used to define and put us in our places, rather than having any form of either rights or responsibilities. If we felt responsible for any situation we would probably work towards real solutions, so by keeping us in a non-active role as citizen we are not a factor. There seems to be a void in this area. The definition of citizen is simply a holding spot. I am citizen number xxx xxx xxx aka my sin. Do you think that the acronym is symbolic? And what does social insurance number really suggest? Is there insurance of some kind and what insurance is it? This number insures what exactly? It insures my trackability, but what else?<br /> <br /> This means I must pay my taxes, report to the authorities any decisions I make, children I bear, relatives deaths, etc etc and that seems to be the end of my role. The only thing I don't have to report, but somebody does, is my own death. I don't have to worry about taxes, but somebody in my family will have to pay my taxes after I am dead. I have no real say in any decisions regarding my country's inner workings. <br /> <br /> So perhaps my question should be; how can we become something more than a number holder? Do we want to be more than a physical mass taking up space? Should we aspire to include the right to influence and be considered in the decisions our elected officials make on our behalf? As I explore this I feel a bit like a child living with a million dollar bank account, but unable to access it. Someone tied my independance to a trust fund which is controlled by someone else. I live in poverty while my money is used to fight wars, build corporate dominance and I have nothing to say about it. That just doesn't seem right? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/frown.gif' alt='Frown'> <br /> <br /> The more I explore this question the more I sense we need to define it. What it is today is not really what I have thought it is, or what I believe it should be...perhaps I'm looking for something that doesn't really exist?

[Sleepstalker]

Whelan thank you for the welcome , I think you answered yourself to a great degree with this post....<br /> If we felt responsible for any situation we would probably work towards real solutions, so by keeping us in a non-active role as citizen we are not a factor. There seems to be a void in this area. The definition of citizen is simply a holding spot...<br /> You have MANY questions..8 so far in your last post I shall endeavor to answer a few at least...Sleepster... <br /> PS.. I am indeed impressed with your accomplishments Catherine you are obviously no stranger to the written word and search for a leadership role which can match your convictions and vision for Canada... <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/cool.gif' alt='Cool'>

[rearguard]

"Being a citizen seems to be a label used to define and put us in our places, rather than having any form of either rights or responsibilities."<br /> <br /> Does citizenry mean being a submissive slave to your country of birth?<br /> <br /> But what's a "country"?<br /> <br /> We can go down this path, but I think we all know where it leads.<br />