[Jacob]

A regional party like the BQ and PQ, I guess. Welcome and I'll gladly look at your web-page.

[Marcarc]

Interesting stuff, although I doubt you'll get many adherents here, there aren't many maritimers for one thing. The other thing is that 'Atlantica' is synonymous here with 'american integration' thanks to AIMS and the Chamber of Commerce.<br /> <br /> However, I suggest people here check them out because their website shows that the interest is virtually the OPPOSITE of everything you ever heard about 'Atlantica'. First, it consists of ONLY the four canadian provinces, NOT the american states.<br /> <br /> Second, like most political start ups it is very vague in its 'principles', which means its more likely to have an effect. If Canada EVER smartens up and brings in Proportional Representation then it COULD be a very effective tool for atlantic power. <br /> <br /> Third, it wisely avoids the 'atlantic union' which is a tempest in a teapot. There is no reason for such a union, and the four provinces are so diverse and independant that making this a central theme would simply mean endless bickering.<br /> <br /> As a federal party is the only way the "Atlantica Party" makes sense. I am currently working on a website for New Brunswick for my particular raison d'etre, which is direct democracy (yes, I know its four months overdue but I do have to earn a living). If any of the creators of the Atlantica Party check back, I urge them to do a search on 'direct democracy' here at this site and on the web generally since every successful new party integrates its principles into their charter, the difference is that they always abandon them when elected because central canada and political elites are so opposed to them. <br /> <br /> However, that is changing, so I urge them to check out ScottReid.com to see how the frequent use of referenda at the federal level can give a new party the legitimacy and grassroots support of individuals. Just getting people to pay attention to politics is a step in the right direction, and direct democracy gives them that reason-otherwise its just a bunch of different people wanting to go to Ottawa to collect that nice pension. The benefit of this is that it unites all atlanticans in voting, while obviously dividing them on the actual vote. I urge them to check out the american states to see how referenda at the local level, and citizens initiatives in Maine at the state level, have benefitted the states. <br /> <br /> Reform and then Alliance tried to bring that to the national level but of course met a wall with the media, whose owners don't want to see canadians with any real power, even including the dummies at 'this hour has sixty minutes'. Party leaders of course don't like it any more than media, that demigod pride always seems to affect them as soon as they hit the campaign trail. <br /> <br /> It may succeed as simply a federal protest group, however, they need a way to make decisions and incorporating democratic principles is a good way. By copying Switzerland and local US customs of voting, with the internet, mail in brochures, etc., I think it could become a real beacon and player in canadian politics, otherwise I wouldn't bother with it.<br /> <br />

[atlanticaparty]

Thank you.<br /> <br /> Yes, we are not affiliated with AIMS.<br /> <br /> The Atlantica Party Executive.

[atlanticaparty]

The Atlantica Party will introduce Single Transferable Vote (STV) for provincial elections and ban election contributions from all sources in favor of equal election financing for each candidate. These reforms are needed to ensure fairer elections, allow more political voices to be heard, encourage citizens to become engaged in elections, and present voters with more electoral choice.<br /> <br /> The Atlantica Party will reform the provincial political system by re-establishing the independence of the Legislature from the Executive. This sharing of powers between the citizen's representatives in the Legislature and the Executive will encourage freer debate, better decision making, and establish stricter public oversight of government operations. The Atlantica Party will also institute in a prudent fashion several direct democracy tools for use by citizens, including Citizen's Initiative and Recall. <br /> <br /> The Atlantica Party commits to increasing the voice of the region within Confederation in order to reverse the neglect of this region by the Federal Government. <br /> <br /> To learn more about our policies or about the party please visit us at www.atlanticaparty.ca <br /> You can email us at info@atlanticaparty.ca <br /> For discussion please visit our new discussion forum at www.atlanticaparty.ca/forum <br /> <br /> Thank you. <br /> The Atlantica Party Executive. <br /> Leading The Movement For Real Reform.

[rearguard]

Did someone say STV?<br /> <br /> We had a vote on STV here in BC, which almost got voted in after receiving 57.7% in favor. For some mysterious reason that was never explained, it needed 60% to pass. <br /> <br /> The BC-STV system we voted on was difficult for most people to understand, which made it a hard sell. It also had some features which I think weaken its effect. Less ridings instead of more further disconnects politicians from the public they are in theory supposed to be representing, and allowing multiple candidates from the same party to run in the same riding gives the corporate funded parties a major advantage.<br /> <br /> I'm all for change, but I saw little point in voting out the horrid system we currently have for another one that was no better or possibly even worse. As they say "The devil you know is better than the one you don't". <br /> <br /> We need a simple proportional system that most people can understand and validate without the aid of a computer program, we need representation that actually lives in the community being represented, and we need to place the corporate parties on equal footing with all the other parties to prevent them from buying elections rather than winning them.<br /> <br />

[atlanticaparty]

We would keep the number of ridings the same. Even smaller ridings would be better for the reason you gave, but then the issue of the size of the House is created.<br /> <br /> We think STV is the best way for electing citizen’s representatives; no votes are wasted therefore every vote counts, citizens know the people they are voting for as representatives (unlike pure PR), and the system is fair. As you say, it is more complex to understand at first, but it is being used successfully in a number of countries. Even in BC a majority (57%) wanted it.<br /> <br /> We agree with you on the corrosive effect of money in any election process that is why we have also made it a policy of having equal campaign funding for each candidate (not given to parties). It is unfair that candidates should have unequal starting positions when running for public office.<br /> <br /> TAP <br />

[rearguard]

What about NOT allowing multiple candidates from the same party to run in the same STV riding? To me that is ripe for abuse by the corporate parties, since they are able to buy candidates, and not just with their bags of fiat currency, but with lucrative promises that don't break funding rules. Multiple candidates from the same party will definitely create an unfair advantage for the corporations. All we'll gain from such a setup, is another illusion of democracy, but one that is better designed as an illusion.

[atlanticaparty]

We have not looked at the issue of multiple candidates from the same party running in the same riding under STV. On advantage to allowing it is that it encourages intra-party competition.<br /> <br /> We agree with you about money and elections. We tackle that directly in the rest of our Electoral Reform policies, here http://www.atlanticaparty.ca/html/elect ... form1.html

[rearguard]

"On advantage to allowing it is that it encourages intra-party competition."<br /> <br /> Did you mean inter-party competition?<br /> <br /> I have to say that inter-party competition should be left for each party to sort out. The likelyhood of corporate funded parties being able to saturate each riding with multiple bought and paid for politicians is a very real concern that will undermine the concept of PR.<br /> <br /> In my view, this one specific detail is the main reason why STV is being promoted because it will create the illusion of PR thus satisfying the masses discontent, while at the same time giving the establishment as much and perhaps even greater power.<br /> <br /> The other advantage for the establishment is larger ridings which further weaken the power of the people.<br /> <br /> The confusing STV system will further undermine the power of the people because it is easier to manipulate people when they don't understand fully how a system works. Few people will admit that they don't understand something, and will go along with the flow just to save face. The bottom line is that STV is very confusing for most people to understand exactly how candidates are elected, therefore they won't know what's the best strategy to take during an election.<br /> <br /> The bottom line is that the establishment will never support a system that undermines their advantage, so if it's being promoted with money then we should be very suspicious of the intent.<br /> <br />

[atlanticaparty]

No. Meant intra-party competition, two reps from the same riding from the same party. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]The likelyhood of corporate funded parties being able to saturate each riding with multiple bought and paid for politicians is a very real concern that will undermine the concept of PR.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Along with STV we also advocate equal campaign funding for all candidates (not parties), therefore parties cannot become corporate funded parties.<br /> <br /> You are right, there has to a 'package' of reforms not JUST STV. Check out our website for our full 'package'.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]The bottom line is that STV is very confusing for most people to understand exactly how candidates are elected, therefore they won't know what's the best strategy to take during an election.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> No. STV is simple, just rank your preferences. It has been used successfully in other countries for many years with no problems.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]The bottom line is that the establishment will never support a system that undermines their advantage[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Very true. That is why we founded the party as a reforming force from outside the establishment because that is the only way we shall see reform.

[rearguard]

"Very true. That is why we founded the party as a reforming force from outside the establishment because that is the only way we shall see reform."<br /> <br /> I don't want to be a pessimist, however you're in a very dissadvantaged position because the playing field is far from level. Without corporate backing you won't be able to attract enough full time politicians to have an effect. Running for office is a very expensive and time consuming effort, and volunteers no matter how determined have to eat.<br /> <br /> Historically underfunded parties tend to go nowhere, and that's why there's only 3 major parties in Canada, two are backed by the same corporate interestes, and the third is backed by big unions (but union power seems to be crumbling these days).<br /> <br /> Unless you've found a crafty way around the funding issue, I cannot see how you'll be able to get anywhere unless there's underway a groundswell movement among the masses to expel the corporate parties.

[atlanticaparty]

We do not underestimate the task ahead of us, but if there is a will there is a way, all that is needed is a group of dedicated people. <br /> <br /> There are always very good reasons for doing nothing. We are hoping that we can make a contribution to making things better in Atlantic Canada.<br /> <br /> tap

[rearguard]

"There are always very good reasons for doing nothing."<br /> <br /> I know, and I don't want to discourage you and those in your new party. As you say, you have not underestimated the challenges which is essential if you are to find a way to succeed.

[atlanticaparty]

[QUOTE BY= rearguard] "There are always very good reasons for doing nothing."<br /> <br /> I know, and I don't want to discourage you and those in your new party. As you say, you have not underestimated the challenges which is essential if you are to find a way to succeed.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Thank you.<br /> <br /> By the way, we are looking for good people to become actively involved to help us.