[badsector]

Still, the numbers speak for themselves: roughly 80% of Canadians support gun control. You are a minority with your extreme redneck views.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Dr. Caleb<br /> Gun confiscation = Chaos. Britian and Austrailia have proven that.[/QUOTE]<br /> You mean there is chaos in Britain and Australia? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'> I guess you must read news from quite different sources....<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Brent<br /> Right, fill out a simple application form, available to Hells Angels hackers and any other gun thieves, giving them your home address[/QUOTE]<br /> When you register your car, I guess it's available to car thief hackers, so they can pick the type you want and lift your car at night. Soo... you want to cancel car registration too?<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Support the squandering of billions of dollars while homeless Canadians freeze to death in the streets of our cities or women are turned away from shelters and beaten to death[/QUOTE]<br /> Hmmm, conservative supporters are all of a sudden proponets of more social spending, for the sake of making a point. Normally you guys say that the poor don't deserve to live.<br /> <br /> <b>Wanna know what the real purpose of the gun control issue is?</b> Let me share my view on this, but try to read calmly, OK?<br /> Conservative parties get most of their support from rural areas. However, more and more farmers realize that the true cause of their suffering today is globalization and the corporatization of farming. Conservatives typically represent the upper class and big corporations, so they are proponents of globalization. They will not lift a finger to bail out the small farmers if it's against the interest of their corporate buddies. Sooner or later this recognition will lead to a growing support of anti globalist parties, such as the NDP, among farmers. The cons use the gun control issue to divert farmers' attention from the real issue (why they are going bankrupt), stir up emotions and manipulate them to support the conservatives. They only need a small percentage to be so revved up about gun control that this issue will solely determine their vote. This will keep the farmers as a group "in check" and supporting the very people who ruin them.<br /> <br /> The basic idea of the totalitarian regime called "democracy" is that misinformed people are easy to manipulate. In a democratic system the crowd is not controlled by force, just by brain washing. The mass media is owned by the people who quietly stand behind both the Liberals and Conservatices (Repulicans and Democrats), they pull the strings, "sponsor" politicians with potentian and control the information that gets to the masses. Through the mass media they can directly "regulate" how most people think. In any group most individuals are ignorant. Only the minority are capable of rising above this web of lies and understanding what's really going on. This minority typically can't get its point across because the majority don't have the intelligence to understand their point. Hence, democracy is dictatorship and gun control is the issue they use to manipulate a specific group (rural folks). Heck, the Liberals did the same with gay marriage. It was the exact same smoke screen to get people's attention away from real issues (such as the Doha agreement).<br /> <br /> So, the question is, which group do you guys think you belong? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'>

[Brent Swain]

I've always voted NDP. If the Conservatives scrap the gun registry, or fail to do so, either way, the one excuse rural people have for voting for them will be gone and so will they.If they scrap it, Sask, Maitoba, BC and other rural areas will have no reason to support them. Scrap it and they have some remaining support, fail to scrap it and they have none and will lose strength in their one remaining stronghold, Alberta . If they don't then not only will those provinces stop supporting them , but Albertans will vote against them in anger. They have more to lose by failing to scrap it. Failure to scrap the registry will lead to a major internal feud within their party from rural MP's who's main reson for joining the prarty was to get rid of the registry, Alberta MPs ,who's constituents will be extremely pissed off. If you want to deal with the other important issues , then lets call their bluff if it is one , scrap the registry and remove their smokescreen.I aggree with most of the other issues that you bring up.So lets scrap this white elephant, so they can no longer hide behind it, and get on with dealing with them.<br /> The auditor generals report on the gun registry , which was due in February , but can only be released while parliament is sitting, will come out soon and will make the corruption and waste reported in the gomery report look like small change.It will put to rest all excuses for the registry and will make it politically very difficult for anyone to support the gun registry.Then and only then will all Canadians fully understand what a total scam and waste of resources it is.You will then be truly embarrassed for having supported it.<br /> Brent

[badsector]

[QUOTE]So lets scrap this white elephant, so they can no longer hide behind it, and get on with dealing with them.[/QUOTE]<br /> Scrapping gun control will increase crime in big cities. This is the opposite of what Harper campainged on. Tougher punishments will be good and have a positive affect, but after a while the criminals will just accept the higher risks. For now, at elast petty criminals can't pack guns cause they don't necessarily have connections to get smuggled ones. Without gun control, even the last petty thief will be packed. Since criminals know that more people are armed, they will fire at someone faster. We will see a jump in the murder rates. The rednecks may not care what happens in cities, but most voters live in urban areas, so it will probably backfire.<br /> <br /> Currently a lot of smuggled guns end up in Canada via Canada Post. There is a lot that can be done to plug this loophole, even if it means postal rate increases. More border security would also help. How about border security in reservations that span the border? There is a lot that could be done to cut down on the numbers of illegal guns.<br /> <br /> Having said that, we now have an Alliance government and I am sure they will do away with gun control. There isn't much we can do about it, except wait and see how it plays out. Time will tell.

[Brent Swain]

Gun crime has increased in big cities since the gun registry provided computerised shopping lists for gun thieves as wel as increased the value of those guns.It has done the exact opposite of what it has promised to do, both here and abroad.To believe it 's continuance will suddenly do the opposite of what it has been doing ,is to stick ones head in the sand.It has been and will continue to be an extemely expensive abominable failure.Lets stop wasteing billions trying to whip a dead horse accross the finish line.Your predictions , and excuses for the registry ,have proven to be totally false in the past , and continue to be totally false .<br /> Overall crime in Canada has been dropping since the 70's, long before any so called gun control.<br /> Brent

[badsector]

Gun registry doesn't provide any thieves with anything. Ever heard the term "computer security"? All companies and government branches practice it. To say that anyone has access to government records is outragous. Which tory a-hole started this up if I may ask? Just because I heard this the fist time about 2 months ago and since then all of you keep repeating it. It must have come from a single source.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Overall crime in Canada has been dropping since the 70's, long before any so called gun control.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> Gun crime has become an epidemic in big cities lately. I don't know where you live but it must be a pretty small place, otherwise you wouldn't be so "immune" to current developments. Gun crime is a huge problem and voters are fed up with it. They want it to go away. If any idiot school kid can purchase a main battle tank at Walmart, the problems will only get worse and it will drive a lot of votes.

[Frenchy]

A battle tank! You "badsector" do not make any sense at all. I wonder if the all anti gun advocates are as paranoid as you. From the sound of it you make no sense at all, but you're damned good at calling people that don't agree with your paranoia names like a little kid. Stop being so childish and try to debate like an adult.

[badsector]

Only a moron would suggest that giving more people guns will somehow reduce gun crime.

[Brent Swain]

The desperate tone of your comments along with your continually trying to resurect arguements that have been shot down over and over again , beg the quesion" What is your financial stake in this. You sound like someone who is either employed in the gun registry , or have friends and family memebers who are sponging off the taxpayer in this grand scam. Arguements against the gun registry , of which there have been many extremely valid ones, for which you have no credibly response, seem to strike you as a threat to your livlihood, and continued access to your cash cow.Your threats of gloom and doom have been disproven in the past , before there was anything remotely resembling the gun registry.They are sounding more and more like childish fantasies of an overactive imagination( or panick at the prospect of being suddenly unemployed.)<br /> Goering , in the Nurembeurg trials said "It's easy to get someone to support a war. All you have to do is convince them we are under attack , and denounce as unpatriotic , anyone who disagrees."Thus , it seems clear ,that the parasites living off the cash cow that is the gun registry , have taken a page from the Nazi strategy book, in the war on rural subsistence living, all to fill their own pockets and avoid having to find a real job. What else do they have in common?<br /> You are running out of excuses that have any real credibility and you are clearly grasping at straws. It's time for employees of the gun registry to get used to the idea that the days of the free ride as government parasites are drawing to a close and they will soon have to take off their training wheels, and seek out a field of employment that is actually useful. I hear there are major shortages of manpower in the construction trades.I'd suggest you get your toe in the door early before they are filled with ex gun registry bureaucrats, being forced to earn an honest living for the first time in a long time.<br /> We rurals owe you our undying gratitude for having so thoroughly screwed up the system as to have killed it's credibility for our lifetime and possibly longer.Well done . Thanks for your expertise. <br /> Brent

[Frenchy]

Brent I think you hit the nail on the head again, "well done". The thought had not crossed my mind that the motivation for his assinine arguments would possibly be his job. This makes perfect sense what with his very imaginative arguments (a tank indeed), and he'll likely be into nuclear weapons next. Frenchy

[Brent Swain]

Computer security? What security? The RCMP have admittied that the registry computers have been breached 221 times . They admit that gun thieves have records of what particular gun they can expect to find in which home.Even the pentagon computers have been breached . Personal computer medical records in BC have been auctioned off. Anyone who believes , after these experiences ,that computers can be made secure, is living in a fantasy land.<br /> Since when has gun crime skyrocketed in cities? Since the gun registry has come into effect with the promises that it will lower gun crime .Since two billion dollars has been squandered on such an abysmal failure. 90% of urban gun crime is commited with handguns , which have been strictly controled since 1934 ,many of them stolen with the help of the registry. No one has been able to point to a single crime that as been solved with the help of the handgun registry in it's 62 years of existence.So as a means of reducing gun crime , the registry has, by your own admission ,been a total failure.Things were better, by your own admission, before it came into effect.Gun crime has beeen skyrocketing in cities compared to when? Compared to pre registry times.<br /> The Comox Valley , now with a population of around 60,000 ,has the same number of cops as it did when the population was 15,000. Can't afford more. Why? The gun registry soaked up all the money.<br /> With the many missing women along northern BC's highway of tears the mounties don't have the manpower to deal with all the tips they have been given, and investigate properly. Why? The gun registry soaked up all the money.More will die as a result.<br /> This may explain why the vast majority of cops on the streets of Canada oppose the registry while their bosses ,who sit behind desks all day ,support it.It's a make work and promotions, personal empire building scam for desk warmers in the legal industry.Besides , questioning what the bureaucrats want to do can end a comfortable desk warming job rather quickly.They got their comfortable positions by being cowardly yes men and never having the balls to question anything the government does. So their opinions are of no credible value.Statements made under duress are inadmissable.<br /> The comming week should be intersting on this issue. The auditor general's report should be released , with stories that will make the Gomery report look like small change.Expect the shit to hit the fan over the gun registry, politically.Then , hopefully it will be put out of it's misery, and we can free up $100,000 a year for useful things that actually save lives . Its sad that so many have been needlessly lost in the meantime.<br /> Brent

[badsector]

It's sad how some people live in a fantasy World.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1144058692387&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154">Article in the Toronto Star, April 3</a><br /> <br /> "OTTAWA - Prime Minister Stephen Harper is winning plaudits from police for promising to lock up violent criminals and throw away the key — but criticism for a pledge to abolish the federal long-gun registry."<br /> <br /> 'Tony Cannavino, president of the police association, later told reporters his group opposes the Tory plan to do away with the registry and fight for its retention.<br /> <br /> "I think there's very important reasons to maintain this gun registry ," said Cannavino. "It's an important tool for our police officers. We have over 5,000 queries (to the registry) every day."'<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]The RCMP have admittied that the registry computers have been breached 221 times .[/QUOTE]<br /> Just show me the article...<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Since when has gun crime skyrocketed in cities?[/QUOTE]<br /> Since every bored loser started packing guns. Now there will be more.<br /> <br /> I have to admit, conservative ideologists hit the nail in the head. There are plenty of idiots out there who will vote against their own interest if they give them a phony issue, such as the gun registry. It's a ploy. Abolishing the gun registry will put more guns on the street and will make the job of the police harder. It will, however, make the gun makers a lot of money and this is precisely why they contributed so much money to Harper's campaign.

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= badsector]<br /> Just show me the article...<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=9d95b92f-0a14-4e37-97d6-df25984725a8<br /> <br /> http://www.communitypress-online.com/template.php?id=26838&RECORD_KEY(News)=id&id(News)=26838<br /> <br /> http://www.fftimes.com/index.php/6/2006-03-10/24740<br /> <br /> Google is free, after all.

[Marcarc]

Since when are the views of the police guaranteed more entitlement than anyone else? These are guys dumb enough to walk up to a crazed gun owner in rural ALberta and knock on his door. These are the LAST guys I want guarding my civil liberties or even having anything to do with them. No doubt they probably want to lock just about EVERYBODY up and throw away the key. That may be what they want, it sure as hell isn't what I want.<br /> <br /> Most of the people that argue about crime know next to nothing about it. Go read court transcripts and stop listening to politicians and police (who often act worse than the criminals). I live in a city that is practically attached to three other cities, combined population of over half a million and I can count the gun crimes that occurred in the last year on one hand. Local police fired their weapons 33 times, 32 to put down rabid animals, and once to pop an over-inflated tire.<br /> <br /> All you have to do is look at WHERE most gun and violent crimes take place, and they virtually all take place in economically disenfranchised areas. No surprise there, people have known that for decades, but politicians love to get voters riled up. The sky IS falling, but it's not from gun crime. YOu have a hundred times higher likelihood of getting cancer from pesticides, nerve disease from crops treated with human waste, hit by a car, and a thousand times greater odds of getting killed at work -depending on your job of course. However, Canada has 40 times the rate of workplace fatalities of great britain, with ten percent of the population. <br /> <br /> But gee, none of those are important, let's pretend we can solve crime with regulations, after all, it worked with...hmm, has it EVER worked?

[badsector]

Guns for everyone with no erstriction = Wild West. I don't want to live in a Western movie, I want to live in a country with law and order. I don't want to carry a gun and trust my life on my ability to draw faster. I want to live in peace. I don't want the local bored teenaged idiots doing target practice on the nearby playground. I want them to struggle to get a gun knowing that it will prevent most of them to have one.<br /> <br /> The US gun crime rate is over five times ours yet Brent, Caleb and Marcarc argue that following the US example will lower crime rates here. Just how stupid do you think people are anyway?<br /> <br /> Dr. Caleb... don't tire yourself. The whole anti gun registry hype was created by conservative politicians for the purpose of attacking a government that cleaned up Muldoon's mess, fixed Canada's economy, paid off a lot of national debt, balanced the books and created consistant account and trade surpluses, so overall did an excellent job. The cons were desperate to find something, anything at all, to attack the Liberals with. The gun issue has been used for exactly that. It's a well organized attack and all the lines that you guys use in public forums are coming down the pipe from party headquarters. It's a mass hysteria, nothing else. As a result, a no-good party got near the treasury again. They are going to empty it, just like the Muldooners did and you are helping them with this stupid "I am not registering my nuclear sub" madness.<br /> <br /> Time to wake up guys. An intelligent person can change his mind in light of facts, so why don't you get the facts?

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= badsector] Guns for everyone with no erstriction = Wild West. I don't want to live in a Western movie, I want to live in a country with law and order. I don't want to carry a gun and trust my life on my ability to draw faster. I want to live in peace.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> See! Right there. No one was inferring that, you just decided to read what you thought we were saying.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= badsector] <br /> Time to wake up guys. An intelligent person can change his mind in light of facts, so why don't you get the facts?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> ROFLMAO. If I proved to you that the sun rose in the east, you still wouldn't change your mind that it rose in the west.<br /> <br /> We've got 10 pages proving everything you have claimed is not supported by facts, yet you have to bring up such fallicies like 'everyone will have to be armed in your new Wild West' and 'the Liberals aren't responsible!! It's a conservative con-job!'.<br /> <br /> Come back when you want to discuss some facts.<br />