[Newsbot]

Title: Time is right for Liberal NDP merger
Written By: robertjb
Date: Monday, May 30 at 07:39
 
Hellyer's proposition must be seriously considered now as there must be a clear, unified and well established alternative to Harper's corrupted conservative values four years from now.
  
 
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[Dave Ruston]

What's the point? They're all bought and paid for by the banker-corporate fascists too.

[Brent Swain]

Why? To save the dying Liberal party, at the expense of the rapidly rising NDP?

That's like the sinking Titanic suggesting a survivor merger with her. It would be political suicide for the NDP to take on the political baggage which sunk the Liberals.
Joining the right wing Liberal party would mean the elimination of the left as an option for Canadian voters.
The sinking Liberals are grasping at anything still floating , including the NDP, as a desperate attempt to stay afloat. For the NDP to allow themselves to get conned into such a scheme, would be the equivalent of a drowning man accepting the offer of a divers weight belt.
We should pool our support? What do you mean "We "white man.
You Liberals have nothing to offer, which the NDP won't take from you anyway, in the next election.
Lost Liberals are free to change parties, and join the NDP.

[RickW]

Bob Rae called the NDP something like a "make believe party" when he deserted that party for the Liberals. Were I Jack, I'd give Rae and the Liberals the finger, and concentrate on expanding into Ontario.

[Individualist]

Well, it's nice that Hellyer took time out from chasing UFOs to comment on the current Canadian political scene. Although the man who wrecked the Armed Forces under Pearson and has bounced between parties and positions on the political spectrum over the years has a bit of a credibility issue. You might say he's the original Bob Rae. Although I'm sure most recent political incarnation on the anti-American left (i.e. CAP) will give him instant credibility with the gang here at Vive.

[herbie]

The Libs have more in common with the Tories than the NDP.
So fuck 'em, let those two merge and then they can ignore the right-wing loonies and let them form a new party.

[RickW]

The Cons and Libs HAVE merged, as far as policy application is concerned. All through the 90's, Chretien carried on Mulroney's amalgamation with the US (much to Indie's delight no doubt). About the only difference between these two "main" parties is that the Cons are much more vindictive under Harper.

[Dr Caleb]

RickW wrote:

Chretien carried on Mulroney's amalgamation with the US (much to Indie's delight no doubt).

b.reasoned and productive dialogue, even in cases of conflict;

'Baiting' is not 'reasoned dialog'. /finger wag

[Individualist]

RickW wrote:

The Cons and Libs HAVE merged, as far as policy application is concerned. All through the 90's, Chretien carried on Mulroney's amalgamation with the US (much to Indie's delight no doubt). About the only difference between these two "main" parties is that the Cons are much more vindictive under Harper.

I am glad that the Liberals under Chretien and Martin eased at least somewhat the knee-jerk anti-Americanism that had prevailed under Walter Gordon and Pierre Trudeau. John Turner tried to play that card during the "fight of his life", known to us as the Free Trade Debate, but he never seemed very convincing in that role.

Of course, the Liberal Party still had Carolyn Parrish and Sheila Copps to blow the anti-American horn, but once the Liberals realized that Free Trade wasn't going to pull us down the drain or force us to spell colour and labour without the "u", the party lightened up on the Yankee-bashing. Chretien's friendship with Clinton probably helped matters too. Once Bush came in things got chilly again, but Chretien wasn't the ideological anti-American Trudeau was. Chretien was fond enough of Americans, as long as they voted Democrat. Hell, even the NDP isn't as anti-American anymore, the lingering Waffle-heads notwithstanding.

I think Stephen Harper is a great Prime Minister, and look forward to a majority Conservative government. For those who don't like him, try not to worry too much. There will still be a Canada in four years. You might want to ease up on the apocalyptic language. I survived Trudeau. You'll survive Harper.

[Brent Swain]

America being the name of two continents containing 22 countries, no one here is anti American, just anti US expansionism.
If you sail your boat in the US, the US coastguard sometimes will come aboard in the middle of the night, march you and your kids to the foredeck, with a machine gun at their heads, and hold you there at gunpoint, while they demolish the interior of your boat, with total impunity, them walk away. They pointed a loaded machine gun at the head of one couple's 8 year old, and flipped the safety off, to make sure her parents complied with their orders, in Florida. They did the same with a Canadian couple's 12 year old daughter in Canadian waters in Dixon entrance. We don't do things that way, here in Canada. That is what Harper is hoping to subject Canadians to, with his North American security perimeter.
So we don't want to be taking suggestions from those who would love to be on the other end of the machine gun, flipping the safety off, while itching to pull the trigger.
When Sitting Bull was escorted back to the US, with 5,000 Souix, he was led by a single mountie. The yanks had 5,000 heavily armed soldiers waiting for them. They were horrified that a sinbgle mountie was all Canada needed. The mountie, Corporal Walsh, said " He gave me his word. That was all the reassurance I needed."
The Corporal Walsh way is the Canadian way. The Custer way is the Yankee way. Where did it get Custer?
Harper wants to change Canadians into the Custer way, the yankee way. He is an international embarrassment.

[RickW]

Dr Caleb wrote:

RickW wrote:

Chretien carried on Mulroney's amalgamation with the US (much to Indie's delight no doubt).

b.reasoned and productive dialogue, even in cases of conflict;

'Baiting' is not 'reasoned dialog'. /finger wag

It turns out that Indie agrees with my so-called "baiting". Ergo, it was more of an assessment than "bait".

[RickW]

Quote:

I am glad that the Liberals under Chretien and Martin eased at least somewhat

By increasing dependence in trade with the US from something like 75% to 85%, I'd say the "dynamic duo" above threw themselves whole hog into the Yankee camp. Now, before you regurgitate the tired old "well-Chretien-kept-us-out-of-such-and-such-a-war", he was, as Prime Minister, a duplicitous ba$tard. It was a gesture, which was negated by his behind-closed-doors actions.

[Brent Swain]

That was the promise of NAFTA, but the border has grown much thicker since. This has forced Canadian businesses to look elsewhere for markets. Lets hope the US continues to force Canadian businesses to look elsewere, and consider the US market unrelaible, regardless of any trade deals between the two governments.
A common security perimeter will mean the US has the common security perimeter, as an excuse to undermine Canadian sovereignty , plus an "INCREASINGLY" harder border to cross between them and Canada. Don't expect any such deal to make crossing the US Canadian border any easier, for people or Canadian products. That is a bullshit promise, as NAFTA and the softwood lumber deal have proven.
How many examples does it take for Canadians to realize that is a bullshit promise?

[RickW]

Quote:

A common security perimeter will mean the US has the common security perimeter, as an excuse to undermine Canadian sovereignty

We have Harper to do that........

[Dave Ruston]

NAFTA was nothing more than a corporate wish list where corporate control of the economy and society usurped responsible government. This article should actually be titled- Time Is Right For A Human Awakening And A Realization Of Who The Enemy Of Humanity Is- You guessed it- The BANKER CORPORATE FASCISTS! These cretins love to see people suffer! They probably please themselves while watching deformed children being born due to the use of depleted uranium! These people never got over their childhood phases of burning ants with magnifying glasses. I mean, these guys could be heroes if they wanted to allow monetary reform. The world could be fixed in a hurry with a more balanced, altruistic approach to economics falling within the scope of natural law. But no! Their level of greed and lust for power says all you need to know about their depraved mindsets!